Smart Meters
 

I understand every home is to have a Smart Meter by 2020. Thought we might as well get one in in good time. The engineers came and said one would not work in our house as the electric meter and the gas meter are too far apart.
They did however fit a more up to date meter for each. The electric meter is under the stairs in the hall way and the gas meter is under the sink in the kitchen. Surely we cannot be the only house with this arrangement so what happens between now and 2020 ? Will Smart meters be modified to be more smart and work with more distance between the gas and electric and if the two meters need re siting will the provider pay for the work that will be needed?
Has anyone on the Web had a smart meter yet and if so how far are their meters apart?

Re: Smart Meters
 

We have refused a couple of times to have em, after speaking to a few that have got em and are not happy at all due to various stuff, fuel cost for one.

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Is this optional or compulsory?

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Optional


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I hope you are right gpick24 .

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How come the cost is greater Cashman? I understood the tariff stays the same and you can see what you use and there would be no need for estimated bills.

Smart Meters
 

"Smart meters aren’t compulsory and people can choose not to have one."

Copied from here, but read it in other places as well - https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/the...ut-the-rollout


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i have no idea rowlf, but the people i asked i can trust, so that'll do for me.also i NEVER have estimated bills cos i'm with the best and cheapest company in my view and have been for the last 5 years or so, the big 6 are a complete rip off, i fail to understand why ANYONE remains with em.

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My mother lives in a Hyndburn Homes bungalow and she is with British Gas for electricity and gas. They came three months back to fit smart meters, but said that her electricity cupboard is not big enough.

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What company are you with Cashy? I am looking to change mine

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Have Pmd yeh mate.;) aint gonna advertise em.

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Why Cashy?
It would be good to promote companies which are better...both in terms of price and service.

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Not my way margaret if anyones interested they can P.M. me no problem.

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It is the Government who is pushing providers to install these meters by 2020 so although at the moment it is a matter of choice I suspect that will not always be the case. There must be thousands of homes where extensive work would need doing to accommodate the new meters. Another great idea that they have not thought through. No surprise there.

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Why would the Government wish to have so called 'independent' companies install such meters?

Ah, could it be, it makes them look greener?

I do actually plan to have them fitted, I've seen them working, they do seem to make folk more responsible and careful about the power used in their houses.

So long as a couple of years down the road, the same Government doesn't force up the prices because we are being too careful with our power consumption.

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My experience is slightly different, i have new smart meters in, when i moved into this house 20 years ago it already had pre pay meters in so i left them in, these new smart meters are in my opinion very good, when i get paid at the end of the month i put £50 on each meter, this has always lasted me a full month, if you are running low on either meter you can simply transfer money from one meter to the other...and you can top up online which is better than having to go to the shop to top up, i know it will be different for people who get bills but for me they are ideal

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Do people really turn off their appliances as a result of reading how much it is costing?
I have always been 'careful' with my energy usage, but if your washing needs doing and your food needs to be cooked, it doesn't matter what the reading says. You will use the energy that you need to use.
I also think that after a time you may stop taking notice of what the smart meter is showing.

My bills are never estimated these days, there is nearly always someone at home to let the meter reader in...if not, they send a bill and we check the readings and phone the correct one through.

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I am so pleased this subject has come up. My gas meter is outside and my elect meter is in a cupboard in my kitchen aprox 12 ft apart plus an eight inch thick wall. It was installed about two years ago by Utility Warehouse. who I have been with for about three years, I have Gas, Electricity, Telephone, TV and Broadband with them and I pay on an average 92 pounds a month for everything. I am not advertising just telling you guys what I have.

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Mine are further apart than that.

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What a load Of bull, get a proper electrical engineer. Any smart meter can connect to it's other, so long as you live in a average house.

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I would have thought the blokes who work for the providers are proper engineers.

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We had smart meters fitted only a few months ago, the Electric box is in a small cupboard by the front door, the gas meter was moved (by the gas board), In early 2016, to a new weatherporoof box on the outside back wall; the house is a semi detached. I would have thought that the two meters could not be much further apart but I stand to be corrected

We have had no problems up to now.

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I've just been reading about the Smart meters, I gather they have a panel in your house so you can see how much energy you are using. They don't make anything any cheaper unless you continually watch the meter and go around switching things off. I don't think I will bother getting one as I don't mind using electricty and gas as long as my home is warm.
The only peope who will gain will be the power companies who will be able to sack all the meter readers.
My monthly bill for gas and electricity combined is £58 for a modern two bedroom bungalow.

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I won't be having one either Russell.
When these first came out I asked myself who would benefit by these meters...and I decided that it certainly wouldn't be the customer.
I do not need a lit up box to remind me to turn off lights, I use energy frugally anyway(not that I would let myself be cold)....and since himself has been busy cutting wood for the woodburner the TV is seldom on during the day.

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I'm expecting cheaper tariffs to be only available to smart meter customers to encourage them to have smart meters. A bit like you get a better rate if you pay by direct debit because thats better for the energy supplier

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That maybe one of the marketing ploys...and of course if the energy companies are not paying meter readers then they should have some spare cash to allow them to do this.
I do not require a smart meter, I pay my bills on the day they come through the letterbox, so I don't need direct debit either(I have been bitten by this particular beast before and it took a lot of mad making ....that is they made me mad,negotiations to get MY money back)so I won't be doing that again for variable bills.(I do pay for my broadband and telephone by direct debit but only because I could not get my broadband any other way. If I had had the choice I would not have done it that way)
Some people may like direct debit, and smart meters. I am not one of them.

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You always say it like it is, Marge, Top marks!

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Thank you Taddy.
Some people would have measles if they thought they were free.
These gizmos are not free we have all been paying for them via our energy bills...oK maybe the government put something in the fund to start the ball rolling, but like green energy taxes we have been paying.
It is just anothercomputerised gizmo that could at any minute go wrong...or maybe even hacked into.
Thanks, but I will stick with what I have. It works for me, so until it no longer does that I will keep my meters.

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Yer probably expecting wrong, i pay Direct Debit and aint got a smart meter. plus pay in advance.so go suck eggs.:D

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I said that I'm expecting cheaper tariffs for smart meter customers not that they are now.

I also think they will use smart meters to make tariffs variable during the day to encourage people to reduce load at peak times and increase load at other times like economy 7 but with more control.

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Maybe, Neil, eventually, if it suits the energy companies, but the first thing they'll do is sack all the meter readers.

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So the fact i pay in advance means in your logic,yer expecting i pay more? not in my eyes.

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British Gas are already offering free electric Saturday or Sunday if you get smart meters fitted.

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That is all very well but to go back to my original post some of us do not have a choice because these so called 'smart' meters are not smart enough to work if they are too far apart.

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Perhaps they will eventually come up with some kind of wireless bridge for meters that are too far apart.

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A bridge too far, what a classic movie!
[emoji6]

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The fact that they are offering such inducements makes me very suspicious. Nothing is ever FREE.
They might want us to believe that the energy is 'free' on a Saturday or a Sunday, but the cost of this marketing ploy has(no doubt) been factored into the cost of energy.

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You're right nothing is ever free. If being on a free weekend tariff means your yearly bill is lower most wont care what they call it

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Neil, you are completely right, but that is because some people swallow whole the pap they are fed by the advertising gang. The fact that this is being paid for by someone will not cross their minds.

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Consider this, If I have a family of say, 5 and I can do the washing + use my dryer, hoover throughout the house, and any pointless DIY what involves electrical tools, how much of a saving can be made in one day of free electric?

Ah, of course you don't know, you'll need a smart meter to tell you.
:cool:

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After reading the post about free weekend electricity I had a look on line.

It seems it's only for people who manage their account on line.

With one of our new Dual Fuel FreeTime tariffs you’ll get free electricity every Saturday or Sunday from 9am-5pm, depending on the tariff you choose. You could do the washing, catch up on box sets, or mow the lawn - all for FREE.

To get this tariff you'll need to agree to manage your account online and you’ll need British Gas smart meters. We can install these for you free of charge. Unfortunately not all homes are currently eligible for smart meters. We'll complete some checks for smart meter eligibility when you sign-up but in some cases we may not be able to tell you this until our engineer has been to your home.

Terms and conditions and standing charges apply [1]

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Every worm hides a hook...and not just in fishing!

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8 hours of free electricity. I've 750Ah of 12v batteries in the garage, I could charge them for free then run things from inverters outside the free time or maybe use 12v LED lighting for free all week.

Might need more power to charge them though, I can only manage about 100A at 14v ish with the 4 power supplies I've got.

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So Neil, seems like it would be ideal for you.

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Worth buying better chargers and more batteries, then you can sell it back to them during the week.
[emoji6]

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I've been using the Internet to contact my supplier for about 5 years, can't see anything wrong with it.
If I have a query I send them an email, they promptly reply, much better than an 0800 number where it's press 1 for this press 2 for that and ending up with some guy that claims to be called Dave, even though his English is more limited than a dyslexic budgie that has suffered a stroke!

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Maybe I am a bit thick Less, but i don't quite see how this comment relates to my post.

I was referring to the fact that advertisers know that you have to offer inducements to get people to swallow what they are promoting...or in other words, 'a pig won't follow an empty bucket'.

Yes, I agree the Internet is the way to go. E mail or live chat has been useful to me in the past. The number crunching is just too painful, and as you say invariably you get through to someone on the Indian subcontinent who has a thick accent and an English name.

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Don't consider you to be thick, perhaps over cautious?
I really do think smart meters the way to go to give us all exactly what we should be paying for.
You may consider it a shame meter readers won't be needed anymore, but most of them will probably be absorbed into running the system in other jobs, automation of many industries has proved that.

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No Less, it isn't just about meter readers losing jobs, it is that as things stand it is totally unnecessary for me to have a gadget (one that could possibly be hacked into....over which I have no control) that transmits my power usage to the energy provider.
It has no advantages for me, but it does have advantages for the energy providers...which is why they are trying to make it seem worthwhile by offering 'free' energy.
There are only the two of us so I would have to take in washing for the whole street to make it worthwhile....or to be vacuuming from morning til night on the day my electricity was supposed to be free.
My cooking is done by gas, so I can't even get my money's worth by cooking a weeks grub in advance.
For some people they may be a good thing, it may make them more energy aware, it may make them consider what appliances they are using...but For me they have no value.
I won't be having one.

And I am glad you don't consider me thick:)

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Have to disagree, the only way i will ever have a smart meter is if its forced on me.

Re: Smart Meters
 

Cashy, if your energy supplier needed to install new meters for safety reasons(because your current meter was outdated) then you can ask for a dumb meter...this is the same as a smart meter, but it is not connected by a SIM card to the suppliers network.

These supplier networks are supposed to only accept messages from the supplier and are encrypted. This does mean that your energy supplier could(in theory and at times of high demand) instruct your meter to cease supplies to your property.
Now with conventional non smart meters, I don't think that is possible.

You might think this scenario would not happen, but as there is a move away from power generated by fossil fuels in favour of energy produced in other ways( wind turbine for instance) I can see a time coming when there will not be enough energy to go around and selective areas may be targeted in reduction of power supplies.

A smart meter is something that is installed in your home, on THEIR network, for their benefit.
Who is to say, in the future, how the information collected will be used. It may even be sold on to third parties who sell things like domestic appliances.

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Lets go back a few years, YOU decided to buy a computer, YOU decided to connect to the internet, I'm glad you did, so far as I'm concerned many an entertaining hour even though you have left yourself 'open' to hackers, how oh please tell me how, anyone would be more interested in you if you had a smart meter?

Only reason anyone pays attention is because you put on sensibly interesting posts, the intelligent meter can only be a disadvantage to someone that has something to hide, if it cuts down on my bills (and eventually our combined carbon footprint) I'm all for it.

Note to self, stop putting it off, get yourself signed up, you are only avoiding it because you'd have to spend your free day actually cleaning and washing and DIYing, maybe, yep maybe, your right Margaret, it's a step too far why should I do any of that stuff?

Re: Smart Meters
 

Yes, Less, you are right(you so often are:)).
I did go and buy a computer, I did connect to the Internet, but I made sure that I had some kind of protection from some of the evils out there...and YES, I do know that all the protection in the world is not foolproof, but I make the best fist of trying to ensure my security.

I neither need nor want one of these intrusive meters(and I have nothing to hide).My energy readings are done each quarter...I have not had an estimated bill in 14 years - the time I have been retired. I do not need some animated display to remind me of the energy I am using. I am frugal in my use of energy. No dishwasher, no dryer. I do not leave things on standby. We heat the house with a log burner. I am not who the energy companies want for a customer.

I am suspicious of such things for the reasons I have outlined quite clearly, but if it works for you, then you go for it. Me not having one leaves one for someone who will find one of these gadgets a boon.
I am suspicious about the information collected...how it will be used and by whom. Is is going to be passed on to third parties who could benefit from knowing what you use and when.
As for these leading to cheaper power...I can't see it happening. These contraptions have cost us the consumers 11 million quid. It won't reduce the carbon footprint because most people will selfishly use whatever power they want, and can afford to pay for.
Also there is the possibility of the energy companies being able to control the meter remotely
As for the housework...most of mine gets done during the week...and at the weekend I frequently invoke the 'sluts' charter. I do nowt....or no, I do just the cooking.

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Wish I had a log burner, perhaps my toilet wouldn't block as often as it does?
:eek:

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It won't burn bog logs Less...well yes it will, but I don't fancy that kind of recycling:).

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Proof at last, it doesn't take much to drag you down to my level!
:D

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Don't tell me it has taken you this long to find that out Less. :)

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I hadn't thought about that. Wouldn't to to difficult to make them think it's solar power your putting back

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They probably will be at some point. I'm very surprised we've got away with not having to have water meters still.

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Just make sure you don't sell it back to them on a very foggy day.

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I had a phone call yesterday from my energy supplier to try to induce me into having one of these meters.
When I politely, but firmly declined the lady told me that the government was going to make them compulsory by 2020.

'Are you sure about that?' I asked her.
Well, she hummed and aahed for a couple of minutes and said that this was what she had been told to tell me.
Wasn't it a good job I had been reading an article in the Daily Telegraph.
One which said that the uptake of these monitors has been 'disappointing'...so much so that the government has changed its stance to say that every household will be 'offered' a smart meter by 2020...there were no plans to make them compulsory.
I told her that she was using misleading information to try to get people to take one of these.
I asked her to remove me from the calling list AND the mailing list....so I guess I will get another phone call, oh....sometime next week!

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If you don't want a meter, you don't have to have one. It is not compulsory

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Seems to me like they will try anything to get people to agree to these meters!!even downright lying.:(

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I know that, but the woman on the phone seemed to be hoping that I didn't know.
It was strange because just a little earlier yesterday I was reading the article in the Daily Telegraph.

Six reasons to say no to a smart meter

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There was an article on smart meters last night on watchdog re fires. When it does eventually happen ask the installer for his credentials. What was brought up last night was that the "tails" i.e. the cables going to the meter have to be connected tightly.There was an instance where they were loose.If there is a loose connection there is a potential to spark and cause a fire . When eventually I get them I will personally check the gas and electrical connections. The problem is that the installers are told to do so many in a day and if they are rushing there could be loose connections.

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seems that the one,s who don,t get these meters are smart.

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We have refused em a few times when asked, due simply to people we know having got em and were far from happy,

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I will have a smart meter/TV/phone when these said items are smart enough to make the bed, do the dusting,the washing, the ironing and then put everything away...until then I won't have anything with the prefix'smart'.

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We have one provider for gas and electricity, They rang us about two months ago, this is how the conversation went.

Hello...me
Scottish gas about you're smart meter, when can we come to fit it, only takes about an hour
Smart Meter, never asked for one,


SG. You must have you're on our list.
Do not want or need one. Please listen, I must have had a bad turn on the day I asked for one. when was it?
SG. It doesn't say, but your account would not be on here unless you had called. It's a good thing to have, you can see how much energy you are using per day, and you won't have a shock when you bill comes in.
SHOCK, the only shock I have had today is that I might have to go to the Doctor for memory loss. Please do not ring again.

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There are various estimates as to how much this roll out is costing...I have seen figures which state it is 11billion...and others that say 14 billion...now I know that the government is not footing the whole bill, but that the money is being taken from customers (whther they have one of these devices or not) so we are all paying a stupid amount for something that is of doubtful value...that may be a health hazard, a fire hazard and that will just lead to surveillance in our own homes...and supplies which could be terminated remotely either by the supplier or by malevolent hackers.
Thanks, but no thanks.

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There is another point here as well, if you change provider, it is highly likely hat there meter is not compatible with the new one. Shock horror another new meter has to be installed. No Thanks

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Well as I said initially they are not that 'smart' as they would not work in my house and I am sure there are hundreds of other houses where that is the case. I shall not bother with one .

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well this thread was started 4.years ago i still aint got one.:D

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Me neither….and I still don’t want one.

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well i guess that never happened :D

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What these also do is help the utility companies understand demand better at a far more granular level to be able to work out how we can best meet demand without blackouts and not generate more than we need. if all they get is a monthly or even annual reading its hard to calculate exactly how much will be needed at 3:37 on a wet dark thursday. do we have enough in renewable generation or do we need that dirty old coal station up and firing away..

its interesting to read about how Japan is putting its near future in coal and generation of "Blue Hydrogen" where the cars etc use a clean fuel at point of use but its generated through dirty methods where the CO2 etc is captured and stored..

Their volcanic location and Fukushima accident has definitely spooked them into concern over Nuclear where they are.

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Entwisi…I have said it before, but I am going to say it again…..you have been MISSED.
I make no apology for shouting that out loud or for repeating myself…it was on purpose and not because of my advancing years or deafness.

You post in an interesting and informed way……and while I do understand why they are useful to the power companies…I still won’t have one.
They do not save the consumer money…..and that was the premise the adverts used….all they do is highlight your usage….and the MIGHT get you to use less, but I doubt it.
I am frugal with energy use….lights turned off no gadgets left on standby….the only things that are using power all the time are my fridge, my freezer and my boiler….and a digital alarm clock.

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technically they do save us money as by being more efficient at generation there is less "waste" and thus we aren't charged to cover this. plus its always a win for the planet if we don't make/use more than we need...

I too am frugal ( i prefer tight.. :) ) and will always look to using as little as possible. My solar panels have been up 7 years now, well over payback on FIT alone never mind the ~ 100 a month saving on my bills ( in conjunction with the wood burner we fitted at the same time ) . We do live a completely alien life to those of even my parents. heck i preserve that much energy i don't even need to stand up and walk to the light switch or thermostat to use them :)

I am and will probably always be there at the bleedin edge of the list for using tech to make life easier and more convenient and just generally better.. I make no apologies for that but equally where using old tech is the right way I'm there as well.. the age of something doesn't define its value to me.

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Alexa and such are wonderful, though I still can't get my head around the coffee maker, I still have to get up and collect it from the machine.
:(

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It is ready when you make it down after ablutions chap, no waiting for it to cool..

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So Entwisi…it is a benefit to the supplier and generator rather than to the consumer(who is after all, paying a green levy.
There is no such thing as free when it comes to energy.
So smart meters are promoted as being free, but we are all paying for them.

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depends to what level you take a benefit to a supplier to be ultmately passed back in terms of lower prices than would happen without that efficiency/saving... its sliding doors scenario though as you wont know either way as the other option is never followed

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My take on all this SMART METER talk is simply this. I cannot think of any Governments giving the surfs anything that benefited them. The "SMART" meters are there to stop the surfs from fiddling the meters when the gas and electric prices go through the roof.