Organ Donation
 

What are your views regarding the proposals to change the law over Organ Donation?
The current situation is that you opt in if you want to donate your organs after your death.
This will change so that your organs maybe harvested unless you have opted out of organ donation.

Now, I have carried a donor card for as long as I can remember, but if this becomes law, then I will opt out.
Why? I hear you ask.
Well it implies that my human remains belong to the state...I dislike this thought...so it is the principle.

This is a contentious issue and I know that the discussion with relatives of deceased persons is a difficult one...and often comes at a particularly difficult time.
I also appreciate that there are not enough organ donations, but I feel that this is not the way to tackle it...education is the way forward.

I have, throughout my life, tried to make a positive difference...through choice.
I think this removes my choice and the government will rely on inertia...the laziness of people will solve the problem for them.
So you may say that my choice is still there...and in a sense it is.
( I will use it, but many will put off making the choice actively)
I am perverse I know, but the government should NOT assume consent.

Re: Organ Donation
 

I agree completely Margaret.To be honest i dont give a stuff what anyone thinks,i got my own mind,

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I also carry a card and my thoughts are take what they want and burn what's left. Every one's a winner.

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Yes, that was my approach too, well except the burning...(they can put me in dog food, drop me into the sea...but please no burning)but I resent the fact that the government seem to think that they have power over my earthly remains...and for that reason I will opt out.

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They have suggested this for years - it will never pass through the government cogs.

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It is in action in Wales and Scotland plans to implement it within the next four years.

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Well, yes Retlaw, I think we do need to bother, because the government are longing for us 'not to bother'...and if this goes through what else might they assume that we consent to.
I know that you are saying that old organs would not be harvested...but they might if they offered a short term solution and they were compatible donors.
How long might it be before every baby born, has and HLA test to determine its ability to be matched.
Even if those under 18 are exempt unless they specify that they want to donate...an HLA database would be useful.

No...I will be opting out.

Re: Organ Donation
 

in theory i am one that believes in having to opt out. i,m one that wants to donate my organs but just too lazy to get a donor card. my only worry is where the government gets involved there could be cases of people being actually allow to die if their organ is wanted in an emergency. as for the rest of my body they can do what they want with it when i snuff it as i won,t be around to complain.

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You don't actually have to carry a donor card. You can register on-line in a minute or so. I registered a few years ago after Les posted about it on here.

https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/

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done, thamks for info.

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Yes, I carried a donor card for a while, the registered online, but I will be asking for my name to be removed from the list if the new regulations go ahead.

It is about the principle of assumed consent.
When you have any kind of surgery, the doctor has to give you information that you can understand so that you can make 'informed consent'...the hospital does not assume that because you have turned up, you give your consent.

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Personally, I think it's a great idea and I hope they introduce it. If it means more organs are available to save peoples' lives, that's fine by me.

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Well, on that one we will have to differ Steve.
I think the intention is good, but the execution is flawed.
Consent should always be informed and sought, it should never be presumed.
My earthly overcoat does not belong to the government...and while, once dead I won't need it...that does not mean the government can have it.

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The government won't have it, Margaret, seriously ill people who want a chance to keep on living will have it (or at least the useable bits of it!). However, it's a personal choice. For myself, I'm far more concerned that any property or assets that I leave behind go to my loved ones and not the government. As for my body, they can do what they want with it and if any of it can be of use to someone else, that's fine by me.

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Nowt wrong wi that its yer own choice,mine is same as MrsPs,

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Ok, so it won't go to the government, but it is government initiative to solve the low levels of organ donation.
It will be the government who will change the law which makes a deceased's body available for the harvesting of organs without real consent.
They will assume that if you do not opt out(through inertia) that you consent.
That is NOT consent. It is unethical.

Does it not make you uncomfortable that if they assume ownership of your remains, then they may assume your consent over other issues?

Inertia is a ploy used by commercial enterprises...they figure that if you do not act, then you are OK to fall into line.

I get that there are people out there who need organs to be donated in order to live.
I worked in the NHS for almost thirty years, so of course I know what a lack of resources(in this case, organs) means in real terms.
All that said, I do not think this is the way to address the issue.
The way forward is to get people to WANT to donate their organs after death.
The way to do this is education...and having the awkward conversation about death.

And yes, of course it is your personal choice Steve...as long as you are allowed to make that choice.

Re: Organ Donation
 

What I'm uncomfortable with is the fact that there are people with long and fruitful lives ahead of them dying because of a lack of available organs, caused, not because people have some strongly held principle, but simply through sheer apathy and inertia. As far as I'm concerned, the change in the law would be a good one simply because it will make more organs available and thus save lives. At the same time, people like yourself who feel strongly against it will have the freedom to opt out. To me that's a win-win situation.

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I'll be dead so won't need my body, someone else might as well have any bits that are of use to them.

You carry a donor card because you want to save lives with your bits but if the law is changed to do what you already want to then you will opt out. I've read it a few times and it still makes no sense to me. Looks like you just want to be anti-government and pretend there is some strange principal involved.

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A normal reaction to being forced in my mind, if you give to a charity that is your choice, but when someone comes along & says you must that puts a completely different aspect on the issue, the same goes for your body.

I have never personally carried a donor card, but I've given blood on numerous occasions, that hasn't been an issue, but for me there is an underlying uncomfortable feeling about some "official" entity deciding what is to be done with my worldly remains, If I haven't decided by the time I've shuffled off this mortal coil, then the decision should lie with my family/dependants, not the government.

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think its all about what you say dave. until yesterday i for one didn,t know you could go on line to donate any parts of your body that is needed. more publicity needed about organ donation for people to decide for themselves instead of the big hammer approach by government who know all where we all know nowt. think a lot more people will follow margarets line and opt out just to show em two fingers.

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Looks to me like you are nowt but a government arse kisser.:rolleyes:

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Neil, there is a principle involved and it is not strange at all...it is about the state(rather than government) owning your earthly remains.
It is about assuming consent rather than actually seeking consent.
And looking back perhaps using the term government was not quite the right term...perhaps the word 'state' would have been more appropriate...and NO I am not anti government, or for that matter anti state. I just do not agree with the state owning your remains....which is what they are actually saying if thiis legislation goes through.
It is not my way of sticking two fingers up to the establishment either....it is me deciding that the state does not have a say in what happens to my remains.

Now, if that doesn't worry you(but I think it should) you really will not get my point however much I try to explain my motives.
(what other things might the state decide that you have given consent to, because you haven't opted out of something. It all seems rather sinister to me)
If the state wants more people to donate organs then they should make them WANT to donate....they should educate folk in how their gift of body parts after death can give comfort in a time of sadness.
I get all that...I really do.
I have seen first hand how illness and life shortening disease can affect lives....But I resent the heavy handedness of this proposed legislation.

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Hahaha, some appear to be anti-government just for the hell of it

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Maybe they should go further and not let people opt out unless they also opt out of NHS care.

If you want the NHS to fix you then you have to agree to give the NHS the bits they need to fix others

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Hang on there Neil...haven't we through contributions, paid into this organisation...we are not required to donate our organs to get care....and what about all those who get care and have paid absolutely nothing at all into the kitty.
How would this system work...would it be...you need a new hip, that'll cost you a kidney. You need a new knee. that will be both corneas???

If this comment was made as a 'tongue in cheek' thing, you need to perhaps tell us that.

Are you telling us that the NHS owns us rather than the state.

Maybe the day is coming when all new borns are chipped like puppies...just to keep track of where the organs that belong to the state are(!)

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The way it would work is simple, once you're dead if any of your bits can be used to save a life then they are used.

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without consent this is unethical.

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I think it's unethical to burn or leave to rot perfectly good organs that could save lives

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Because you think it is unethical does not make it true Neil.

Donating organs after death should be a positive informed choice...and not an opt out sort of decision.
That sort of ploy is used by companies that give you two weeks free trial of something, but take your credit card details knowing full well that they will capture the unwary by inertia.

It won't be long before blood is taken at birth to determine your HLA so that they can determine which organs will be suitable for harvesting...I distrust the state.

If you are OK with implied consent, then you have no problems.(or at least, none that you can recognise)

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Neil, I am sure that in the time I have been on this forum, it has been recognised that I am a cynical old baggage.
Being female as well, I am perverse, contrary. If someone tells me that I cannot do something I will do my utmost to prove them wrong...equally if someone tells me I HAVE to do something I will do my best not to do it...employing whatever means are necessary.

That is just the way I am. My sense of esteem does not rely on what anyone else thinks of me. I am past all that. If I please myself I know that at least one person(the most important one) is happy.
And frequently what I am saying is what others out there are thinking, it is just that you are not one of them!

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Take no notice Neil is always right.:rolleyes:

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Margaret, once again you've said it as it is, looks like we think the same things. I'm a cynical owd git, and as contarary as its possible to be, when I was in the Fire Brigade my attitude earned me a title by the officers, S.U.I.B. Scruffy Untidy, Insubordinate, Bastard.
And I don't give a dam what people think of me either.
Lurch.
S.U.I.B.

Re: Organ Donation
 

Retlaw, like you, I am one of a kind.
Marmite is what I am, there are some who like me, there are others who do not.
I work by my own moral compass. I would never knowingly harm someone or something, I try to live by what were once considered to be Christian principles(is that a rude word now).
That said, I still have the power of critical thought. I do NOT always swallow what the establishment would have me believe as I realise that the establishment has its own agenda...and this may be far different to my own.
I respect the opinions of others, but they do not colour my own opinions.

It is a very emotive subject so there is bound to be a range of thought....sometimes you do the wrong thing for the right reason(l believe that organ donation is good, BUT only when done freely with obtained(rather than assumed) consent

There, I have said it all in the best way that I can.
I have no more to add to this discussion, so having started it, I am going to leave it there.

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I will be making a positive choice not to opt out, that is my decision not that of the state.

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Quite right, well done, it is a positive response, if even only one person is given a second chance because of what you or I can do after death, then our lives haven't been in vain.

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Heard that before somewhere!