Most sickening story of the week...
 

It looks as though the Happy Clappers are gearing up for a spring offensive... or should that be an offensive spring? Speaking personally I am sick to the back teeth of bible thumpers who think they have the god given right to dictate national morality.

Have a read of this from this morning's Times...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...501029,00.html

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Do-gooders like that knock me sick. Its people like this that give religion a bad name.

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It makes me laugh that these so-called anti abortion extremists cannot even get their terminology right.:D An abortion is a medical condition known to most as a miscarriage. In most cases it cannot be helped and there is no apparrent cause. The ending of a pregnancy by surgical or medical means is a termination not an abortion. It strikes me that those who plead a cause and cannot be bothered to find out and use the correct terminology are not worth listening to.:)

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I have no problem at all with people having free speech. Its when they intimidate people who are already at a very sensitive point in their lives, putting it all under a mask of morals and freedom of speech.

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i realy cant wait until the last page of the bible is found it will most likely read the following and shut christian do gooders up for a while

all chareters in this book are purely fictional and any reseblence to people in real life is purely coincidental

author - ewa beenhad


there are so many flaws in religeon especialy chritianity its amazing that anyone actualy follows it lol

as for these looneys protesting we should be allowed to throw razor blades at them and other horrible things

sounds bad but dont forget their lord will save them :rolleyes:

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I have nothing against a person's religious beliefs and moral beliefs but I do think that it is wrong to impose your beliefs on others. There's freedom of speech and there's intimidation. I do believe that these people will get their come-uppances, I have seen this happen before in the most appropriate of ways. A good few years ago an acquaintance of mine used to harp on about how she didn't agree with termination for whatever reason, and literally accused women of murder, but still helped arrange one for her 15 year old daughter. Funny how some people's attitudes can suddenly change to suit their circumstances.

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the two things that have caused more death and war in the world are christianity and the muslim faith

if religeon was abolished there would be a lot less trouble in this world

if you think abortion is wrong then say it is wrong and dont do it your self but dont go claiming you speak on behalf of god as ime pretty sure if he is as almighty as people claim to be he is quite capable of fighting his own battles

these people are no better than islamic terrorists as they are both guilty of forcing their religeous beliefs onto others who dont share their point of view

yes i am a non believer and if i am ever proved wrong and end up been judged before god when i die then people in heaven better brace themselves because someones in for an ass kicking for how he let our world fall lnto such a sorry state

like i said its upto these people what they belive or think about abortion but to put it simply i just dont care what they think and ime betting over 80% of the population couldnt care either so they should pack up and leave the doctors to do what they are been asked to do

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They are entitled to have their opinions as anyone else is but to try to force them onto others the way they do is just not acceptable. It's not a particularly Christian way of behaving. Christ himself never forced anyone to believe or behave in any particular way. It should be each person's free choice. Yes I know there will be those who say that the unborn baby has no choice but that really isn't anyone else's business. I wouldn't have a termination myself but I wouldn't behave aggressivly towards someone else who did.

How intimidation can be thought of as Christian is beyond me. Like you said Pixie, it's people like this who give religion a bad name.

However, fighting back in like manner by throwing razor blades or anything else at them is wrong too.

If they are so convinced of the power of prayer then instead of holding their "vigils" outside the clinics and causing trouble why don't they just pray quietly at home or hold little prayer groups where they can get together in each others homes or something? It really doesn't sound so much like it has anything to do with prayer but more to do with sensationalism and grabbing a headline.

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exactly

so that just goes to show there not doing it on religeous beliefs because instread of protesting they should be in church praying for it to stop

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Never mind the christian/muslim problems, what about denomination problems on our own doorstep, that has caused more problems for many years, and it still goes on.
As for abolishing religeon, what would you replace it with, I don't think there is an answer to that one, do you.

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the prime directive :D

you could always worship me

i would banish hynburn council to iraq

i would stop imigration

i would never stand by and watch my child slaughtered

those 3 reasons alone would make me a better god than the current one

seriously though if you believe thats your choice but why should everyone else have to listen to these nutters views just because they attatch the name "god" to them

they should save their god for church where people who actualy give a s**t will be there to listen to them

believe it or not i actualy do help others in many ways and have gone out of my way plenty of times to help others

the difference is i dont do it to score brownie points to get into heaven i do it because its the right thing to do at the time

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First of all I want to say that I have no argument at all with free speech. It is the most precious of the rights we enjoy as British subjects. That includes the right to say things that some sections of society may find hurtful, objectionable or offensive.

How can you engage in debate if a portion of your terms of reference are disallowed or proscribed by law?

"I may disagree with what you say but I will defend until death your right to say it". (Voltaire)

So, as far as I am concerned, Stephen Green and Christian Voice are perfectly at liberty to spout whatever sort of pious claptrap they choose, twenty four hours a day, three hundred and sixty five days a year if they so wish. They may also do it through whatever medium they choose, whether this be from a pulpit, through the press or via the internet. Again, I can have no argument with that. Provided they recognise that the same right exists for everyone else, no sane person could, or would, wish to interfere.

I also do not have any argument against public protest as a means of reinforcing your argument, provided that it is peaceful and harms no one.
And I am sure that this is a position which the majority of members of this board would endorse.

But does Firebombing clinics offering terminations and the murder of doctors and clinic staff involved in those terminations strike you as legitimate peaceful protest?

According to the article in the Times, quoted above, there are links between Christian Voice and the American Christian Fundamentalist, Neal Horsley, who says that he believes that the Ten Commandments justify murder to prevent the deaths of unborn children.

If Christian Voice intends to adopt the tactics of American "Anti-abortionists" in their determination to end the practice of termination on demand in this country, as they say they do, then such action should give us all, Christian, Agnostic and Athiest alike, cause for the gravest possible concern.

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Quite agree. Free speech is an important right even if you don't agree with it. l had a leaflet shoved through my door this week by the BNP. Reading it totally frightened me on a personal level, but l support their right to a voice, even if they got any real power l think my voice would be scilenced.

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Why should I want to do that,it would not be christian
Is that not something most people do as part of their every day life.

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>>Why should I want to do that,it would not be christian<<

No, you would then be a Chavian!

>> Is that not something most people do as part of their every day life.<<

Yes it is and, unlike Stephen Green and his bible bashing chums, most of us have the good taste not to wear our piety on our sleeves.

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[QUOTE=Acrylic-bob]First of all I want to say that I have no argument at all with free speech. It is the most precious of the rights we enjoy as British subjects. That includes the right to say things that some sections of society may find hurtful, objectionable or offensive.

"I may disagree with what you say but I will defend until death your right to say it". (Voltaire)

So, as far as I am concerned, Stephen Green and Christian Voice are perfectly at liberty to spout whatever sort of pious claptrap they choose, twenty four hours a day, three hundred and sixty five days a year if they so wish. They may also do it through whatever medium they choose, whether this be from a pulpit, through the press or via the internet. Again, I can have no argument with that. Provided they recognise that the same right exists for everyone else, no sane person could, or would, wish to interfere.

Brilliantly put A-Bob, I am entirely on your wavelength but doubt if I could have expressed it so lucidly.

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Mr Green sounds like a delightful man to know.:rolleyes: Golly gee, but I envy his wife.
How can someone with such an outdated view be expected to have a balanced opinion on sensitive subjects such as termination?

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Having had a look at the Christian Voice website, and considering what they have to say and the way in which they express themselves, I am left with the impression that they take their inspiration from the puritans of the 16th Century. You know, the ones who decided to ban Theatre, dancing and Christmas, and every other form of ostentatious display.

As to the subject of Mr Green's wife, I would feel sorry for her, but for the fact that she chooses to remain with her bigotted husband.

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Oh I wasn't expressing sympathy for his wife. Anyone who chooses to stay/agree/whatever with a such a nutcase is clearly a candidate for a padded room.

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never mind that woman wheres my tea...? :D

j/k of course

I BELIEVE

i believe i will have another beer

back in 5 :beer58:

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Someone just described my post #19 in this thread as "a tasteless comment" and deducted karma for it. Needless to say they did not have the courage or courtesy to sign their comment. It is not the loss of Karma that concerns me, it is the annoymous sniping.

What do other members think, was it tasteless?

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I would have said it was merely common sense. There was nothing tasteless about it IMO.
Maybe we have some extreme evangelicists (sp?) that you offended A-B? Watch out for the prayer lines outside your house.:D

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You put yourself over extremly well A-B, i myself cannot find fault with your post.
I do not agree with abortion, but these people take the biscuit.Don't they know that two wrongs don't make a right.

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It seems to me that this Mr Green has found his passport to fame. A minor nobody makes a statement designed to cause offence to a majority of people and lets rip. of course everybody takes the bait and replies giving the man just what he wants. He's a flamer, nothing more. nothing less. using the same tactics as Animal Rights protesters and anybody else in a minority who have a greivance against the majority.

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hopefully his fame will become great enough for somone to post his picture and adress on the internet then we can all force our opinions on him via royal mail :D

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Strange that, I had Karma deducted for post #18 it read " you sound overly pompous" that was not signed either :confused:
as with a-b

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I don't find anything offensive in either post #18 or post #19. There are some very sensitive people about who seem to be able to take offence at absolutely nothing. I've been called "high and mighty" and "holier than thou" recently. :rofl38: ME ???
If anybody needs to question that they just need to ask Busman.

Anyway, you're absolutely right A-b anybody who chose to worship Chav would be a Chavian. Sounds quite good that. I wonder if anybody deducted points from Chav because of his post?

I'm a Christian as some of you may have gathered by comments in previous posts but I hope I don't wear my piety on my sleeve. People who do that make me cringe. I have certain standards and beliefs that I won't compromise but I don't try to force them on other people and if they don't try to force their values on me then we can get along merrily. If they are interested in why I believe what I believe then I will happily chat about it.

This guy obviously thinks he has some sort of divine right to enforce his views which is contradictory because although he claims to be Christian that isn't a Christian attitude. What really baffles me is how on earth anyone can justify murder as a means of preventing termination if what they have against termination is that it is murder. What makes one "murder" wrong and one right? Who gave them the right to make that judgement? Presumably they don't read the Bible they claim to follow which says that none of us should judge others.

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Willow I for one have never found you pious. I haven't been here that long granted, but you and the words holier than thou don't go together.

Just out of interest, if you browse this thread without logging in you get a link to this site -

http://www.hh76.com/pro_life_product...&referral_id=3

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[QUOTE=-pixie]Willow I for one have never found you pious. I haven't been here that long granted, but you and the words holier than thou don't go together.

I have to agree neither have I Willow. :)

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The best thing about this site, IS that there is so many different beliefs, & it's interesting to hear someone elses point of view even if you don't agree. l've found no one here pious or pompous either. The only person who scares me is A-B, only because his knowledge is so broad & vast, it makes me envious- & he finds time to find fascinating links for us to read & discuss.
Have just realised what the karma thing is, wondered why it went up & down, l thought it was if l typed too hard! Agree l will always comment if l change someones karma.

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Interesting site Pixie. I couldn't resist a little browse and wonder who on earth is going to want to display :

THIS

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http://www.hh76.com/pro_life_products.asp?group_id=65

most usefull

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l know what l'm asking Santa for now! But how on earth have they 'sculpted each foetus with a unique personality?'

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Maybe they are having a go at playing God?

Sorry couldn't resist that one.;)

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I think the infants born to mothers in the Sudan and the street children in South American cities might disagree with pro-lifers on the issue of the sanctity of life. One does not see to much evidence of them exerting themselves in the alleviation of the crushing poverty that these children have to endure. Similarly, one notes that this is an American movement, and that America has refused to ratify the Kyoto Agreement - not too much consideration for the state of the world that children are born into and will inherit either.

It strikes me that this is more to do with soothing bourgeoise guilt than concern for lives never lived.

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I don't see the connection there as the former is a "movement" and as such doesn't have any control over the ratifying of the Kyoto Agreement.

It's a very scary "movement" though and how they can justify their actions even to thermselves is beyond me. I've heard animal rights protestors trying to justify letter bombs to people who have connections with scientific labs where they suspect animals are used in experiments and they seem to have the same sort of mentality. "It's OK to kill or maim somebody if they are doing something you disapprove of"

I do see your point about the children who are born in poverty and lead an existence rather than a life. Where are the campaigners and protest marchers and what have you's on their behalf?

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l always link extreme pro-lifers with animal liberationists, both seem to attract a minority of blinkered people, who don't seem to care about suffering thats going on every day. Did l make it up, or did Oxfam recently say more people die every week in Afica, than died in the Tsunami?

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oxfam will throw whatever number of deaths are needed into the air that they think will make you donate more money

the truth is less people are dying in africa because besides all the money we already send a lot of them are coming here with aids and other ilnesses which bleed our NHS system dry..

but thata a different story for another thread lol

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l've not seen the thosands of South African children living with AIDS/HIV waiting @ immigration the last time l was coming into Heathrow, or lining up @ Dover docks.

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if i had aids and was starving the last thing i would be thinking of would be bringing another life into this world

perhaps we should just send durex over and a few microwave meals

the reason why they dont get seen queing up at heathrow is because they dont need to, they get their own plane provided by our govenment to fetch and carry them

its not as though they can afford a first class ticket with british airways is it now lol

edit:

to be quite honest ime sick to my back teeth of seeing and hearing about unfortunates in other countries we have our own problems and i am not alone in thinking this

if were not paying taxes to treat these people we are constantly getting hounded by the media and the likes of oxfam to put our hands even further into our pockets to help solve a problem the isnt realy any of our concern

perhaps if we stopped sending aid over all the time they might actualy do somthing about it themselves


since this thread is supposed to be about religeon why dont we send them bibles and let them pray for help and let god sort them out

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WE took bibles when we took their diamonds/ gold/ minerals., etc.
Condoms would be useful.
We unfortunatly can't decide what percentages of our taxes are spent on what, personally l'm not keen on paying for Burberry clad babies to be pushed around by work shy parents, but l'll learn to live with it.
Other than that charity is a choice.

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we have abandoned children , homeless children and sick children who are british and in my opinion more entitled to be helped with british taxpayers money than anyone else living in any other country wether it be africa , iraq or any other country that sits waiting for us to sort out their problems for them

this country throws millions at africa and no matter how many times we throw money at them they still appear on our tea time news with flys crawling on their faces in the same situation they were in 20 years ago

it just sickens me when i walk past a house and see a home made poster asking for help for a parent to send their ill child to america for life saving treatment because we have such a underfunded nhs system mainly due to imigrants bleeding it dry yet we dont see tv program after tv program raising funds for the nhs

yes charity is a choice and i bet if there were tv programs for home charities people would donate to them rather than other countries

we do have a choice what our taxes go on we can use our vote for that and pen and paper to our local mps but that would make us racists

edit:

just so you know

i do have a job

i am not a chav

my partner has a job

we both pay taxes

yes we do get WORKING tax credit and if you dont like OUR taxes giving us credit then write to your mp

i agree those who sit on their backsides shouldnt get a penny but please dont class us who actualy work and try to get ahead alongside these people

anyway i appologise to the thread starter for veering way way of topic i have a habit of speaking my mind which once i start i find hard to stop :rolleyes:

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Some good points there mate, no need to apologise for the thread wandering, we all do it from time to time. Nothing wrong with speaking your mind either, I wish more people would. Perhaps if they did, the world might be a better place. There is an addage from the second world war to the effect that, all it takes for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

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cheers m8

i sometimes read back what i type and think oh my god i sound like a propper racist which i am not

i am just your average joe whos had enough of political correctness ruining our country and seeing genuine hardships in the uk go unnoticed because people and the media are more concerned with what is going on abroad rather than what is happening right under their own noses