The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Trevor Phillips, the Chairman of the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) has expressed his concern that black schoolboys are not doing as well as they should/could/ought in schools. A very valid concern. His suggested solution to this problem is to educate them separately although he himself admits that part of the problem is the attitude amongst black scoolboys that it is not "cool" to be an academic acheiver.

If it isn't cool when they are in a class with Asian, Chinese, White or whatever schoolboys (and girls ) then what makes it become "cool" to be singled out and eductaed separately? Will their attitudes suddenly change?

He also points out that part of the problem is a lack of father figure in the home as many of these boys come from single parent families where the father plays no part at all in their upbringing. I venture to suggest that doesn't only apply to black boys. I am aware of many white single parent families where the mothers don't want anything to do with the fathers. sad but true. I only know of two muslim families where this is the case and of those two only one is Asian but that doesn't mean that there may not be more.

There is an excellent article in today's Daily Mail by Dr. Tony Sewell, education consultant and director of The Learning Trust who himself at one time was a "black schoolboy" and he thinks the proposed solution would be worse than the problem itself. In the 60s in the USA people died for the right to an integrated education system. Going backwards cannot be the solution surely.

Isn't there a solution available within an integrated system where any failing pupil, black, white pink or polka dot can be encouraged and helped? If the child himself (or indeed herself) refuses to learn can segregation change that? What about the white kids with no father figure and the same sort of attitude? or indeed those with a father figure who has that attitude (I can think of one - "MY kid don't need to know that stuff coz I never did an it aint done me no 'arm. I still gets me benefits")

Apparently some Afro-Caribbean (his words not mine) families are sending their children to the West Indies for an education, not because they have all black schools there but because the system there is like we had back in the 1950s with stricter regimes and firmer discipline and hey guess what? The children learn more. Doesn't that speak volumes about the "improvements" in our education system here over the past 50 years?

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

So something about it on news yesterday evening.Just reminded me of S.African apartheid.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

It made me think the same.

I also think discipline should be brought back. Half the teachers at my son's school think "Ooh, poor little darlings; we can't push them too hard"

And it's no good talking to the Head, apparently - he's just a wet blanket, from what I've heard.

It's meant to be a good school, though. There's over 100 pupils on the waiting list

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

School discipline has indeed collapsed;half of the teachers are opting for early retirement or part time work.No wonder,they are asked to do an impossible task;teach unruly youngsters without the threat of adequate punishment for wrongdoers.
Apparently the threat of detention has been neutred; teachers have to pre warn parents that little Johhny will be in detention,not neccessarily after school either!
The Nanny culture continues when kids are at Youth centres,any misbehaviour is only perceived as ,'Pushing the envelope'.
Kids are now given leaflets on their rights if police stop them in the streets!
Where will it end?
Well I think we now see the signs, the generation that have been brought up this way are now themselves having kids and the lack of discipline in kids and parents is unbelievable(with of course some exceptions)
I think it is a mixture of the Thatcher greed years and the Mary Poppins Blairite mentality.
Time for some sense,but again, from which direction will it appear?

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

You're right Willow, people in the USA did die in the sixties trying to integrate many things including the education system. But things have gone too far the other way. It would appear that, like Britain, many black children think it, not only, 'uncool' to do well in school, but can be accused by their black peers of 'selling out' and becoming white! In order to get more blacks integrated into colleges now, they are actually accepting them, even though their grades are inferior to many white students. This, IMHO, is reverse-discrimination gone mad. Also, we now have a situation where black students are insisting that they should have their own separate dorms on campus. How regressive is that? There is a book written by a black guy on this subject which, again, IMHO, should be read by all kids, black and white in US/UK schools. I cannot recall the name of it at the moment but I will post it later in the day and would advise all who are interested in this subject to read it. It gives great insights into how the 'white world' is viewed by many black people.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

The name of the book mentioned above is:

The content of our character. by Shelby Steele.

Second hand books are available on amazon.com at very cheap prices. This book is well worth reading and gets to the root of the racial questions. I would be interested to hear comments from anyone who decides to give the book a go. Remember, this is written by a successful black man living in America.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I've just found a review of that book on the internet - I shall look for more.

One thing I found disturbing in what I have just read is the reference to "white guilt" and particularly a comment that the book in the hands of whites who have never felt "white guilt" is a dangerous thing.

Not only have I never felt "white guilt" I'm not 100% sure I even understand what they mean although I suspect it is something similar to an experience I had in Ireland when I was told:

"You persecuted us and allowed us to starve to death"

To which my response was that the person speaking far from having starved to death was indeed very much alive. That I couldn't personally be held responsible for something which was perceived to have been done by my ancestors to their ancestors and apart from anything else my own personal ancestors were on the receiving end of a bit of persecution themselves at the time.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Why should anyone feel guilty over their colour or what their ancestors have done, or have had done to them?
I refuse to feel guilty for being white. Its not something that I had any choice or control over.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

You would be surprised to see the full range of colours observable in white skin - practically all the colours of the rainbow, plus earth colours!

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Segregation never the answer, whatever the skin colour.

Rather interesting re: other threads about integration of minorities, and not ghettoising people.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

if your thick then your thick it just so happens these kids are black and thick so they get media attention

plenty of white thick kids about just look on the street corners and you will see them

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

No one is naturally 'thick', everyone should have an education system that brings out the best in eveyone, regardless of colour.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

all ime saying is colour dosnt make you thick and yes people are naturaly thick but its not limited to their colour

some people just cant be taught a decent eductaion as its beyond their capabilaties but this applys to whites , blacks, yellows and what ever coulour of skin a person may have

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

if someone cant see the value in having an education that makes them thick in my book but of course thats only my book lol

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Still disagree. No one is born 'thick'. Everyone has different natural abilities. Perhaps they are 'thick', because it's the education system that has let them down, and their expectations are so low there is a certain kudos in being thought of as 'thick'.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I dont see why extra money and teachers resources should be wasted on people who think its un cool to learn

you cant force people to learn the same way you cant force people to work

a few teachers at moorhead when i was there quite openly said that if you were preppared to learn they would spend extra time with you and help you but if you had no interest they didnt see why they should take time away from people who wanted to learn and i think that is right

why should our childrens education suffer just because other people have to be forced to learn

black or white if you are not willing to help your self why should anyone help you

if soemone seeks help then help them but dont try forcing help on those who dont want it

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Good teachers wouldn't have the above attitudes, and therefore show children the best, most rewarding path they can travel down to achieve the very best they can.

Who would like their own children written off as 'thick'? To go through life with no expectations seems very sad. This does happen regardlass of colour, but it's the system that lets them down, not being 'thick'.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

if a teacher told me my child was un teachable you can beleive there would be swift action in my house to ensure they sat and learned at school

most kids are short of disaplin at home and it shows in the class room so the teachers get the blame

teachers are under supported as it is so why shoud they take time away from those WILLING to learn and make their eductation suffer for the sake of ingnorant yobs who see education as a joke

edit:

for once why dosnt the blame get put where it belongs instead of blaming teachers , its about time people were held accountable for their own actions and choices they make

if they want an eductation all they have to do is sit and learn and if they cant manage that simple task then they dont desrve a thing

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

They wouldn't see education as a joke if the teachers were any good.

Support at home is a factor, but should be secondary to a school system that brings out the best in everyone, despite their personal backgrounds.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Love you lots, Garinda, but can't agree. 20 years experience as a school governor at both primary and secondary level teaches you a lot. I once had to exclude a 5 year old because he was so disruptive - attacking other children and teachers, breaking windows .... can't be the fault of the school at 5 - he'd only just got there. Discipline begins in the home, and I don't mean beating the **** out of them. When children start school they should have been socialised. If they are still wild animals, there is a strict limit on what even the best teacher can do with them.

I could go on for hours, but I want to go home. Will try to carry on after I have cooked my lord and master his dinner and done all the necessary around the house ....... another thread creeping in here????

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Good to disagree, lol!
Children should be socilised by the age of four. Would the same children have been excluded if they had been raised better- no .But the same child, given a different start would have a chance not to have been labelled 'thick'. Thats what l objected to.
Look at Prince Harry, best education etc.- and a more well rounded individual making the most of very little natural abilities, you'd be pushed to meet! Lol.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Whilst I agree that nobody is "born thick", I don't think you can blame the teachers for certain pupils not learning to standard. If certain groups don't see education as having street cred, then to me that indicates a problem in the home. The parents should be taking a more active role in their childs education, instead of blaming the school.
Teachers and their power in the classroom are that limited now that there isn't a great deal they can do to rectify the situation. School should not be expected to compensate for anybodys situation at home.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

School should be the constant in a child's life, and it should be of a high a standard as possible. A child may be in care, or have a parent[s] who don't give a damn what becomes of their offspring, and not get the support thats been sugested they need. Schools and teachers that allow children in a way to opt out, are a disgrace. How many engineers, scientists, nurses and musicans etc, are not going to fulfil their potential, because they were labelled 'thick' and written off?

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

there are few children that see school as been cool i know for sure when i was at school i didnt go by choice and definatley didnt go because i thought it was cool , i went because i was told to and learned becasue if i went home with bad reports i got my ass kicked

i can safely say that most people old and young dont see and never have thought of school been cool when they were children but regardless we all went , sat down and learned

what makes todays youngsters so different in thinking school isnt cool , absolutely nothing

all i see is surveys and polls making excuses for children under qualifying ,the whole thing is a scam to divert the blame away from the govenment underfunding schools and not supporting teachers in disciplin in the classroom

the only time i actualy appreciated school and saw it as cool was when i left and had to work for a living i would gladly be sat in a class room rather than working shifts

kids today have too many rights and too many excuses for been bone idle and this poll has given them yet another excuse to do nothing in school

its not my fault its the system , boo hoo

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

You argue that you only appreciated school when you started to work. l find that sad, as you are obviously an intellegent person, therefore you're admitting 'the system' let you down.
Outside of your own experience, there are lots of young people who do think education is 'cool', because further education numbers have never been higher.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

If someone has true potential it tends to come out either way. It doesn't need to be dragged out of them.
If a child has parents who don't give a damn what becomes of them, they are more than likely not going to try their best in school as they have seen that there is no reward for doing so. I don't think it is entirely the schools fault - they are there to teach, not to bring children up. I mean there are primary schools who IMO are wasting valuable time teaching kids table manners, because their parents never taught them how to use a knife and fork. How sad is that?

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I was educated in the 50's and 60s and at the time the discipline in the schools was palpable......discipline in the home was also practised. If I went home and told my parents that I had been given the cane or reprimanded in any way I would have got another hiding for needing discipline at school. If you were ever sent to the head teacher, you trembled in your shoes......and whatever the teacher said, you did.
I am sure this influenced the learning that went on.......we respected the teachers,
who in turn taught us to respect ourselves. Discipline, self worth and respect are lacking for many children.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

School education isn't just about passing exams. lf parents aren't doing it, sadly how to use cutelry is a vital thing to learn.
That children still leave school still unable to read is a tradgedy. Not all 'potential' will come out regardless of where and how you were educated.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

the system didnt let me down though

i went to school

i paid attention in class

i learned

i passed my exams

i got a job

currently due to an illness i am unable to do my current job anymore but although i dont see learning as cool i am still joining up a computer course so that i can get a piece of paper saying i am as good as what i am at pc repair so that i can continue to earn a wage and not rely on benefits

some school kids today see the dole as an occupation and you dont need to pass exams to be on the dole as they even have people at the dole centre to fill out forms for those too lazy to learn how to read and write

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

That is a good starting point, some develop later than others, has always been the case, but I think the present situation can be summed up by

1. Lack of parental interest, would you let your son/daughter roam the streets at mid-night, at 13/14 years of age.
2. The latest rules and regulations on child abuse, when a small child comes home from school, and says "if you smack me I'll report you" to his/her own parents or grandparents, I think its time to close that book.
3. The lack of experienced teachers, due to retirement, or the lack of "budget" within the school to employ other than low grade teachers (by that I mean teachers on low salary grades, new, fresh out of college etc)

Having had the mis-fortune to have been involved with most of the local schools during my working life, and having seen the damage caused by the "children", and the lack of control teachers and staff have, I shudder to think just what the next generation is going to be like.


The problem I feel lies firmly at the feet of the parents, they should control their off-springs, there are 24hours in a day, school time is only a small %age of that time.

Yes during the 50's there was a lot more discipline, both in the schools and in the home.
Sorry if I have offended anyone with those comments

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I'll drink to that one Park!

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

School is there to act as a complement to family life, not to compensate for the lack of it.
Too many parents wash their hands of their offspring once they go through the school gates and do nothing to encourage them or help in their learning at home. As park381 pointed out school accounts for a small percentage of the childs life, the parents have a much bigger part.
Maybe if they weren't being taught how to use a knife and fork, they could have used the time learning to read...

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Yes, but as also has been pointed out, a lot of children aren't getting good parenting. Just because a child has the misfortune to be born to a no hope ned, school could and should be there to guide as well as to educate in the 3R's.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Why, cause its better than earning a living grafting, or serving an apprenticeship in a craft.
What courses are they taking in this further education, media studies etc. still when they have finished with their further education, they can go on to uni, spend another few years before they even look for work.
And yes I to went on to further education, at night after a days work.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

If children are not getting good parenting, that is not the schools fault. I think a heck of a lot is heaped on our teachers as it is . My sister in law is a primary school teacher and she leaves the house at 8am. She gets back at 6pm, and is generally marking papers, reports etc until 9pm. Being kicked, sworn at, spat at is all in a regular day for her. Its disgusting. And the parents do not want to know. She can only do so much in 6 hours a day.
Teachers have a family life as well - they don't need to be bringing up other peoples children as well. Thats what being a parent is all about.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

l agree there are some great teachers. On a personal level, I went to both a state and a private secondary school. Sadly there was no comparisson. The teachers were better at the latter. This is unfair.
Strange how we were all banging on about abuse last week. There are children not getting the help they need to function as future useful members of society, because someone, be it parents or school ,is writing them off as 'thick' and not worth educating.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

absolutely spot on it was the forty,s and fiftys for me ,,there was 40 plus pupils in our class but we all learned because we listened and observed,and the respect for our elders was parramount ..they blame large classes for a lot of things today but you couldent get much larger ones than them,,

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I think a lot of these black kids don't have anyone to look up too.They see one getting away without an education and living on a much too generous welfare state and decide they can do the same without the effort of study and examinations. What chance do they have with no examples to live up too.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I agree but they seem to be in the minority and lets look at the problem locally and think about it that way.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I don't think its the problem that there are no role models as such. Surely your first and foremost role models should be your parents, not some celebrity?
Parents need to be made to take more responsibilty for their offspring and their actions. If a parent doesn't think education is "cool", then chances are their kids are going to share that view, and not all the black/white/yellow/sky blue pink celeb role models are going to change that.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

but when you started this thread you stated that under achieving black boys was a "very valid concern" aand i agree. most kids theese days have "attitude" rergardless of colour but segregating black boys i don't think is the answer to under achievers. I don't think the 5% of white kids at hyndburn park will be taken into a class of their own and more teaching effort poured upon yhem because they are not "achieving".

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Certainly in London, where this was first raised a lot of these Black lads don't have Dad's in their lives Pixie. There is a culture, not just amongst Blacks, to have lots of 'Baby Mothers.'
Perhaps schools should teach how to use a knife & fork, the 3R's, and how to be better parents.
Soon these children will be having children,frightening. Who if not school, is going to put some structure in their lives?

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Agree on the uselessness of degrees in Media Study degrees, but when it's more likely that you will win the lottery than get an apprenticeship nowadays, at least it's better than sitting back and doing nothing. They may not all be reading the news but at least they are trying to extract what they can from the system.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Unfortunately, with degrees in Media Studies and Aromatherapy, what is being taking out of the system is the p***.

Education should be a partnership between the home and the school. We should teach children to the best of their ability, whatever that ability. We should also teach them to fill out forms, how to cope with society, and that every right carries a responsibility. Too many people know their rights, too few appreciate their responsibilities. Whatever your culture, it is not an excuse not to subscribe to the system. Children have come from appalling backgrounds and have gone on to make a success, academic or otherwise, of their lives. However, that was when schools still had sanctions, when there was a culture of respect for teachers and other adults. We need to teach that, and that should start in the home ... by the age of 5, it is already getting to be too late.

What is vital is to educate the next generation to be responsible and caring parents - otherwise we have a self-perpetuating culture of lack of respect and lack of achievement.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Too much emphasis is put on the colour of kids and colour in general. Why should they be compared white against black or black against white. Treat them as kids and look to their needs they are not there yo be measured and compared.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Just because a child doesn't have a father does this make them automatically thick? Unable to learn?
I think the onus is put on schools far too much. It should be shifted back onto parents - make them do their job or make them face some serious consequences. Right now it seems that schools are expected not only to educate, but to bring up children as well.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I agree with you, l started in this thread because someone said some children are born 'thick'. l don't think this is true.
Segregating kids because of their colour, in my opinion is wrong.
l still feel schools should play a part in imparting standards into children, who don't get it at home. Apparently there seems a lot of them from what people have said here.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

If a mother chooses to be a single parent she also chooses to have the extra responsibility ............. nah it doesn't seem to work does it? The ones who don't want a man around are often the ones who don't take much interest in their children either. Maybe they are the ones who need to be educated.

When my husband died, for a few years my children didn't have a father figure in their lives but they didn't suddenly become thick or unteachable.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Yes being a single parent as my Nan was, makes no difference if you're a good or bad parent. But there is a whole generation growing up who have parents that take little interest in them. These kids will soon be parents. A downward spiral. Schools could help in this by teaching morals, self worth etc. as well as the 3R's.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

This is an interesting apprenticeship scheme that is due to start in September. Although it's Network Rail, the course is to be run in conjunction with the Royal Navy. I think something like this would be far more valuable than a "degree" in Media & Lesbian studies.

http://www.networkrailcareers.co.uk/apprenticeships.cfm

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Whereas apprenticeships used to be unpopular with the youth of the day( badly underpaid for 5 or 6 years)I think nowadays they are the gateway to earning a good income.
Have any of us tried to get the services of a plumber/gas service engineer or electrician at short notice?
As for the question of colour it shouldn't come into it,but alas it does with predjudice on both sides of the divide. A person should be judged by their merits not pigeon-holed as a special case,due to his or her colour.
Any prospective employer who lets the applicants colour become a deciding factor,doesn't deserve the position of authority and should be dealt with with the exsisting laws.
As for the single parent issue,how did all the World War 1&2 widows manage to bring up their children?

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Remember it well wage packet £2 2shillings &6pence. those were the days eh, by time bus fares were paid to and from work not much left.
I do think at one time the unions caused a major problem by forcing the apprentices pay up, to such a point that firms did stop employing apprentices, but its on the move again, and there is a shortage of skilled craftsmen right across the board

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

And isn't that what would put Accrington back on its feet........a skilled work force.
The children are the 'seed corn' and we cannot expect our borough to flourish if the education of our children is neglected.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Hyndburn must be one of the few places where aprenticeships are available then. l don't know where, as most of the traditional industries have gone. Can you get them in a call centre?
I know in London people are leaving the City, Medecine etc. to get apprenticeships as plumbers and electricans. l saw a film about it, made by a media student!

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I agree with Willow, positive discrimination is wrong. People should be judged on merit, not to make up numbers to fulfil PC quotas l speak as someone who, off the top of my head fits into two anti-discrimination catagories. l'd have hated to have got a job on anything other than my own abilities.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Yes,Margaret is correct.Children are the future,we all know it,yet it beggars belief that education standards have fallen year by year.
People quote that A level passes are on the up.Yet once of a day whatever the subject,the answer would be marked down for incorrect spelling.
Nowadays the standards are truely appalling(yes there are outstanding pupils)some kids on leaving school can hardly read or write.
Where lies the future for them and indeed for us.
Back to basics the 3'R's?(No I could never understand where 'rithmatic came in either!)

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

l failed maths at o-level, and as a challenge retook it ten years later as a GCSE. Standards have slipped, 25% was an assignment about taking a mortgage out. lt was much easier, but that didn't stem my joy as l skipped to work having passed it. lt meant more to me than graduating.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Garinda, maybe your life skills proved useful and made the Maths O level easier.
The other thing about mature learners is that THEY present themselves for education, and as such are a better bet than the kids who are at school because the law says that is where they should be.
It is far, far easier to educate someone who actually wants to learn, than it is to educate a sullen teen with a chip on their shoulder.
As for spelling......I think that damage was done when they started messing about with the different methods of teaching kids to read. I know that my daughter was learning to read using something that was called the Initial Teaching Alphabet.....I was glad when they ditched it because she had to re-learn all the proper ways to spell words. I used to sit and go through 20 spellings with her 3 nights a week.
She thought it was a pain at the time but it paid off in the end.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Before my retirement I was involved in recruiting fo Greater Manchester Fire Service and you would not believe the conditions imposed on us by the home office to make things easier for ethnic minorities to join the fire service. Trouble was it was at the expence of the white lads.

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

without doubt but statistics soon showed that they did not last

Re: The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans
 

I remember when I was doing my degree we looked into real books vs phonics. I forget the majority of it (it was that interesting!), but the gist of one side was that it didn't matter if the child had spelled the word correctly as long as they had used it in context and tried. To me that just plain daft. If a word isn't spelled correctly its wrong. :idunno: