Things that make you go "uh?"
 

My eldest daughter, normally fairly popular at school with a bunch of friends, has been quite miserable over the past few days with no-one to "hang round with" at school. The reason for this is that she is the victim of "indirect bullying" where the bully has ordered other children not to speak to her. They haven't been talking to her because they felt intimidated by the bully. Why was the girl doing this one wonders. It seems that she was one of a bunch of friends of my daughter but found herself a "best" friend.(There seems to be an inability amongst some teenagers to relate to more than one person at once.) However, she then sees that she has less friends than my daughter so proceeds to ensure that my daughter has even fewer than one.

When my daughter told me about this I advised her just to go with the flow for a while to see if she would come round, or the other girls start ignoring her bullying and things get back to normal but they didn't and so despairing of possibly spending the rest of her school years a lone and lonely figure she decided to approach the "mentor" - a member of staff whose role it is to deal with bullying problems. She talked to both girls. Her solution to the problem?

Wait for it.

She asked my daughter how she felt about changing schools! Oh yes, an excellent way to ensure that bullies are aware of the success of bullying tactics. Needless to say she does not intend to take that advice and disrupt her education, and today she has had one girl to "hang out" with at least. Perhaps the rest will now brave the bully and follow suit.

I'm just left amazed at the school's method of dealing with this problem.

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

God l wouldn't be a child again for all the tea in China. l recently met someone who tried to bully me, she's apparently really 'nice' now, l'd have to see evidence first.
With your support l'm sure your daughter will weather this storm and come through it stronger and surer of who she is just like her Mum.
The 'mentors' advice is so stupid it's funny.
Good luck Willow.

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i've got a secondary girls school just up the street from me, and they occaisionally come past in the morning, mob-handed. Whatever I may have seen in them as a teenage lad I really do not know. As far as I can now make out, they're from another planet,

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children can be cruel!!! but as i keep telling all the ones that i know...school isnt that bad!!! just keep your head down and get your education!!!! because your only there for 5 years!!! after that the chances of you seeing these people again are very slim.

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The thing that surprises me most about this is the fact that the girls are at it. In my days at school, bullying was really confined to boys on boys, and most of us suffered it at one time or another. But in today's world the girls seem as bad as, and in some cases worse than, their male counterparts. Very frightening. What is happening to our fair and gentle sex?

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I sympathise with you Willow. My son is only nine and was harassed by some unsavoury characters in school. These kids used to hit, push, kick, and generally just pick on him when the teachers weren't looking. I've always told my kids the thing my parents told me, if someone hits you hit them back but my son isn't a sneaky kid if he's going to lamp someone he just does whoever is watching which got him into a lot of trouble with the teachers. After a massive confrontation with a mother that thought it was fine to have a slanging match infront of the children, which resorted in her own child being in floods of tears, I withdrew my son and changed his school on the advice of his Head Mistress this wasn't her expelling him or getting rid of him being the problem it was the other childs mother she was frightened of!!

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Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

I was at Augustines in billington and instead of setting up a teacher mentor system they had a pupil mentor where every first year or anyone who needed one had an older mentor normally in fith year, i was a mentor i was given a young boy i met with him like once a week for the first few weeks he seemed alright with new school therefore i left him but kept an eye on him when i saw him from across yard etc, and he knew me (what a privalidge:p ) so if he had any problems instead of having to tell a teacher he told me and i sorted it or i then told the teacher i confidence. like i said i we never had any problems, but others did and mentored them till the end of the year then if the kid still had problems they would be passed over to the next years mentor team as we all left.

To be honest there was not much bullying going on anyway. i never got bullyed!!! this was due to a really good school. There was obviously some bullying going on but it normally got stamped out or the bully got kicked out. In my opinion the best policy

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

your childs mentor has probably made the situation worseand made your daughter feel that the staff dont seem to think that she fits in with the other kids. She or he needs to be re-educated in the handling of bullies. When it happenned to my grandkids I confronted the bully in the playground at home time in front of the kids paarent. When it was explained to him that next week he could be on the receiving end the bullying stopped and the kids are as thick as thieves. Good luckm its not a pleasant thing to go through either for the parent or the child.

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Willow, is your daughter still young enough to still want to have a group of friends round for tea? If so, try contacting the parents to ask them would their daughter(s) like to come for tea some evening. Should work better if you can get a couple for tea. These girls might need a shove. But i would definately make an appointment with the head and report the staff member, that is disgusting. Whatever you do try not to let the little cows win.

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

This is exactly what happened to my younger daughter at the end of her last term at High School, at around the time she was taking GCSEs. For reasons that we never discovered, one of her oldest "friends" turned against her and was followed by the rest of the group (all good friends before) who, effectively, "froze her out".

My daughter coped very well, academically, and did well in her exams but she refused to stay at the school for 6th form and went to a FE college. The psychological effect on her was more subtle. There were then, in the early 90s, no mentors. I, like you, had advised her to ride it out, hoping that things would sort themselves out and not wishing to make things worse at such a critical time in her school career. They didn't. I feel that I should have done more at the time, with hindsight, but I didn't fully appreciate how devastated she was.

As an indirect result of the low self-esteem this bullying induced she became clinically depressed after a year or two, made worse when her dad died suddenly and unexpectedly when she was 20, and it took quite a time to get her back on to an even keel. Consequently, she failed her A levels and dropped her long held ambition to become a teacher.

Today she is a happy, well-balanced almost-30 year old, a brilliant mother to her own daughter, a "Brown Owl", a PTA committee member, a "people's person" and has a good, responsible job. All this is the result of her own determination and the help of the medical profession and us, her family. It is certainly no thanks to her former so-called friends or her school.

I hope your daughter's problem is on the way to being resolved, Willow. If you suspect it isn't, go to the school yourself and make them listen to you. Bullying in any form is harmful and the results can be catastrophic. Suggesting that the victim might move to another school is allowing the bullies to win and certainly won't prevent them from continuing their actions against any one else.

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Sorry about your daughter Willow. Girls can be evil little sods when it comes to bullying. I remember somebody trying it with me at school, but she didn't get very far. I was never one to be bothered by other girls at school and most of my friends went to other schools, so I never really let it bother me. You definitely need to go to the headteacher to report the problem. Not just the member of staff, but also the girl. The mentor scheme is the norm in New Zealand, and it works really well. An older pupil will mentor a younger pupil and they all play together. It's lovely to see and starts at infant school and continues through their education. Bullying is almost non existent.

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

Children can be cruel, girls even moreso. I hope it all gets settled soon.

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From past experience I've found the head to be rather inaccessible. There was an instance last year when my daughter's school bag was half-inched whilst she was doing PE. She spent the whole of the next period (English) on a hunt for the thing (under teacher's instructions) and missed out on a double period of English. I didn't particularly think this was satisfactory so I went up to the school to speak to someone about it. I asked for the head but was told to speak to the head of year. I attempted to speak to the head of year but he simply directed his answers to my daughter and told her he would discuss it with her the following morning! I just gave up in defeat.

On the other hand the Primary School, which both of my children attended and the youngest leaves this year, has a totally different attitude towards parents in general and problems like this in particular. The head teacher is also very approachable and although I grant you it is a much smaller school (less than 400 pupils) she seems to know every one of the pupils by name.

My daughter doesn't want to change schools. She's been choosing her subjects for next year and looking at what she is aiming for in life and has discussed all this with the various teachers concerned and seems to have a good idea of what she wants to do, where she wants to go and how to get there. she doesn't want to disrupt all that. I admire her for that.

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Hi, have a look at this link, it may help

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/educati...pdate/cpsu.asp
and this one
http://publications.teachernet.gov.u...-0027-2004.pdf

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

Thanks Park. The staff member in question, the mentor in my original post will apparently be leaving the school soon. I presume there will be someone else taking over, hopefully someone who will look at the causes of a problem rather than trying to whitewash over them as a solution.

It wouldn't stop the bully bullying the other children if my daughter left. It would simply re-inforce her belief that bullying works, which won't really solve anything. I have a friend whose first approach to any problem has always been to change her childrens' school. This hasn't done them any good either in the long term. They all have problems with learning now and had difficulty settling in to each new school which has affected their social skills.

Life is full of problems and you can't just solve them by running away.

Thankfully my daughter does have other friends at home and at church, enjoys a mid-week youth group and her dance classes so these girls at school aren't the be all and end all as the bully probably likes to think. However, I shall be keeping a wary eye on things.

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Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

I posed the question while ago of whether phrase "In Loco Parentis" still had any currency within the education system. Clearly it appears, from Willow's posts and other threads, that the concept is fast going out of fashion, along with common sense and any understanding of what might constitute a reasonable method of equipping our young to handle the challenges which life directs at them.

While studying for my degree I shared a campus with others who were studying to be teachers, in sports and various other disciplines. The numbers of B.Ed students I encountered who were racist, bigotted, socially inadequate or just plain mad, horrified me. After three years in their company I left with the determination that, if I ever had children of my own, the very last people I would ever allow them to come into contact with would be teachers.

It is said that we remember good teachers all of our lives and that their effect on us has a profound and far reaching impact on our lives. Good teachers are rare. Bad teachers, on the other hand, are far more common, indeed they are ten a penny. But their effect on developing minds is scarcely any less profound or far reaching.

My advice, Willow, would be to complain - Loud and Long! Demand explanations. Demand action. These people are, supposedly, acting as parents to your children in your absence. You have a right to expect that they will guard your children in the same way that you yourself would.

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

[QUOTE=
The numbers of B.Ed students I encountered who were racist, bigotted, socially inadequate or just plain mad, horrified me. After three years in their company I left with the determination that, if I ever had children of my own, the very last people I would ever allow them to come into contact with would be teachers.

.[/QUOTE]
You know the old saying, A-B..."Those who can do, those who can't teach"

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach,
counsel. Those who can't counsel, administrate. Those who can't
administrate, enter data into the computer. Those who can't enter data
into the computer, take dictation. Those who can't take dictation,
alphabetize files. Those who can't alphabetize files, answer the phone.
Those who can't answer the phone, fry hamburgers. Those who can't fry
hamburgers, run the cash register. Those who can't run the cash register,
wait on tables. Those who can't wait on tables, carry dishes to the
kitchen. Those who can't carry dirty dishes to the kitchen, wash the dirty
dishes. Those who can't wash the dirty dishes, peel potatoes.
Those who can't peel potatoes, buff the floor. Those who can't buff the
floor, haul out the garbage. Those who can't haul out the garbage, write
poetry. Those who can't write poetry, write clever letters to the editor.
Those who can't write clever letters to the editor, write angry letters to
the editor. Those who can't write angry letters to the editor, spray paint
graffiti. Those who can't spray paint graffiti, write screenplays. Those
who can't write screenplays, write TV scripts.
Those who can't write TV scripts, read scripts for the studios. Those
who can't read scripts for the studios, act. Those who can't act, take
acting classes. Those who can't take acting classes, sing. Those who
can't sing, sing Rock 'N' Roll. Those who can't sing Rock 'N' Roll, sing
it anyway. Those who can't sing it anyway, become depressed. Those who
can't become depressed, get bitter. Those who can't get bitter, get
confused. Those who can't get confused, stay confused. Those who stay
confused, find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences. Those who
find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences, ____________________.

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

Or, perhaps...

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach, and those who can't teach, teach education."

(Nicolas Martin)

Or how about this little gem from Aristotle, writing in the 5th century BC.....

"Those who educate children well are more to be honored than parents, for these only gave life, those the art of living well."

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

someone got done for burping

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

Willow, if you get no joy from the head, go to one of the governors. There is a list of governors, with addresses and sometimes contact numbers, held at the school, and you have an absolute right to have that. In fact, it should be circulated every year with the governors' report to parents. There should be at least two parent governors, who would probably be the best to approach.

Sadly, my son (although tall and hefty) was bullied at school, verbally and very nastily, by a smaller but evil-minded boy in the same year. We tried all the usual methods, approaching the school, discussing it, etc, but it still went on. It finally ended when the bully went too far, Miles picked him up by his shirt front, held him against a wall, and said "You see what I could do to you if I chose?". Bully burst into tears, and never bullied much again. Unfortunately, sometimes this is the only way to get a result. I don't recommend it necessarily, but it does work. It worked for me in the school playground at the age of 5, when a much bigger girl got me into a corner and proceeded to hit me. I went mad, and punched and kicked her very hard. She ran off howling. No more bullying. It does sometimes bring home to the bully what it is like to be on the receiving end - bullies are usually pretty inadequate anyway, and thus are easily taken down with the right method.

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

I agree Pendy, sometimes, if all else fails, standing up to the bully is the only way. I remember at a very tender age (maybe 8 years) being repeatedly bullied by one kid at school even though I tried to be friendly with him. In the end, I gave him a bloody good hiding. I'll never forget the incredulous look on his face when I gave him the first smack. No more problems after that.

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Definately go to the governers. Have had a problem myself ongoing since beginning of February, finally had enough this week (Monday) when i couldn't even get pass the office to the heads secratary. So i politely said to the receptionist that if i hadn't spoken with the head or the problem resolved by Tuesday lunch i was then going to contact the chair of governers. At 8.40am Tuesday morning had a phone call from school, problem solved. Coincidance or what?

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In my job I go to elderly people, some of them were bullied years and years ago,but are still upset by it,I hate bullies and hope anyone that is one gets bullied themselves one day just to see what it's like,good luck in trying to sort it out! PS work place bulling also goes on and so it's not just confind to kids.

Re: Things that make you go "uh?"
 

ls anybody here brave enough to admit to bullying? We can't all have been victims to it, or bystanders.
Are bullies bullied themselves, and they find the power it gives them fills a deep void? Like l mentioned before, l know quite a few people l considered bullies at school, who are now great people, [apperently,] and have children of their own.
l know it's a bit off thread but is sort of related.

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Agreed. l'm not saying l was a goody-goody, [l wasn't, l just never got caught,] but l can honestly say l didn't knowingly bully anyone. l probably upset other kids, but when you've seen bullying l always felt l should try to stand up and stop it.

After all, bullies are someones kids and we might not know if they are bullies or being bullied. My Mum is ashamed to remember she was horrible to a girl at school, and they're now good friends.

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I admit I was horrid to one of the girls at school - and she was supposed to be my friend! I am ashamed of it now, and would love to see her to apologise. Thinking about it, I don't know why I did it, I did actually rather like her. Perhaps it's just trying out roles, etc .... But I never ganged up on anyone or incited anyone else to do so.

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Pendy the first to have the balls.

We can all be cruel at whatever age. Children seem so much better at it, sometimes for no particular reason.

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Garinda, I keep telling you, darling - no balls!! Of course children are better at being cruel, even when they don't mean to. They are direct, anyway, and can say the most awful things quite innocently! - but any child who is different in any way (these days that probably means having a stable home and two parents) gets teased and poked fun at. Who remembers calling someone "Specky four-eyes" or "Rabbit teeth" or "Jug ears"?

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Strange thing that. About 15 years ago I was having a drink at the bar of a pub in which I played the drums. This guy walked up to me and tapped me on the shoulder. I turned around and immediately recognised him as a lad I was at school with from being 11 to 13. I smiled and said "hi", holding out my hand for a shake. "Never mind that!" he said and proceeded to tell me how much he hated me at school because I bullied him. I retorted that I never bullied anyone as far as I knew but that, certainly, I'd had my share of fights and maybe he was one of them. He would not hear of it and insisted that I had bullied him. I said perhaps it was mistaken identity, but he gave me my correct name and told me who my main friends were at the school. So I told him we would have to agree to disagree as I certainly did not recall such a thing. At the end of the night he came up to me and shook hands and said he was glad to get it off his chest and I haven't seen him since. I really don't remember doing any such thing. Also, I once had a house which had a faulty dampcourse. The dampcourse had been renovated by drilling and injecting silicone into a course of bricks prior to my buying the house. I knew who had done the job so gave him a call and asked him to come round. When he arrived I made my complaint that we had rising damp and the guy started going on about the fact that the bricks were 100 years old. I didn't see how that could make a difference and I told him so at which point he turned around and walked out of the house. Next day I received a call from his son saying that I had no business threatening his father. I really didn't make any threat. However, maybe a threat was perceived and I suppose that is the important thing. Maybe I come across as threatening when I don't mean to be! Ah well, don't mess with me you lot. :D

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Ah well, there you go - threatening is subjective. I have been called an aggressive cow and a ball-breaking bitch, simply because I would not put up with being talked down to by (a) a mechanic and (b) another motorist. So there you go. I think I'm okay really - but remember guys,

A man is assertive
A woman is aggressive (etc)

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Like John pointed out.perhaps we all are guilty of bullying in some form or other in someones eyes. Like l said, l don't think l ever physically bullied anyone, but l certainly excluded people who l thought l had nothing in common with, from my little band of missfits and punks.
l'd hate to think l'd hurt anybody unknowingly. l'm sorry :(

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I don't mind being bullied, providing she's wearing the right leather/rubber/PVC clothes and hopefully carrying a good whip. PM me if you're interested.

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My niece went through the same thing last year at her school. She was in a group of friends and when she fell out with one of them, that girl made all the others ignore my niece. This went on for several weeks till my niece finally told her mum. Now they are friends again but the scary thing is they were only 7 at the time.

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'Give me the child until he is seven, and l will give you the Man.'

-Hopefully not then!

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This issue is hopefully going to reach a happy conclusion without getting too out of hand in the process. My daughter's form tutor has been talking to her today about the problem and she for one doesn't think that leaving the school is the solution. If this thing doesn't sort itself out tomorrow she has said that she will talk to all concerned.

I suspect that the fact that the "mentor" is leaving her job at Easter may have something to do with her lack of involvement.

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That's good news Willow, something at least is starting to happen. l hope you'll let us know how it turns out.
The alternative is an angry mob of us lot getting the nasty little minx and forcing her to do lines on here.

lt's wrong to be a bully, lt's wrong to be a bully, lt's ..............

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Thank goodness for that. Psychological bullying is the worst form and I'm glad it is being addressed. It's all very fine to say, "Hit back". It doesn't work when the problem is emotional.