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Will it affect you when the new smoking ban in public places comes in soon. Are all non-smokers for it, or have you got used to a drink and a purple haze? Will the character of pubs be altered forever? ls it enforcable given all the strange ammendments about being 5 feet from the bar etc.?
l' ll be outside in my rainmate between drinks.

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it's annoying. i like to smoke whilst having a drink. how long have people been smoking whilst having a drink? for ever that's the answer.
another tony blair/ europe infringment on the man in the street if you ask me.

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lt's worked in a Dublin suprisingly considering they like the crack over there.

It would never work in France, you can smoke everywhere, food shops, restaurants, maternity wards!

Vive La France!

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this country needs to adopt the french bullish attitude.....
we'd be better off all round

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I like to smoke and love nothing better then a ciggie and a drink when i'm out. But as far as it affecting me when the smoking ban comes into force, i'll just go outside. Done it in Califonia and managed, so i'm sure i'll manage here. Already do it in a few restaurants and i manage there. Just hope they let us take our drinks outside as well.

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it's alright in california where the climates ok but how about standing on church st on a wet friday night. then there's the nightclub factor ie in,out,in,out, refused entry by some ape of a bouncer whilst your coat and girlfriend are still inside.
recipe for disaster.

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Well being a non-smoker myself it wont affect me in the slightest, but to be honest im not really fussed about it all..... By the way it was no-smoking day yesterday, did any of you smokers abstain for the day?

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This Country would be a darned site better if the Government would get a grip and ban Smoking, Alcohol, and Football.

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[QUOTE]This Country would be a darned site better if the Government would get a grip and ban Smoking, Alcohol, and Football.
well said THOTH, lets ban fun in general and all be machines. let's just give up the will to live.:rolleyes:

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I don't go to pubs very much, but that is mainly because when I come back I smell like an ashtray.

If that is how most other non-smokers feel, then the pubs are likely to start booming. All the people that stayed away because of the thick haze that perpetuated every pub will visit in their droves.

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i think everyone should give up smoking. and what of the lost billions in revenue?
tax increases? you none smokers would love that. lighter pockets because we all stubbed it out. oh the irony.

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I trust that is a sarcastic comment Thoth! I personally don't smoke but I do drink and watch football[sometimes I do both at the same time!] I have grown up surrounded by smokers and never had the slightest inclination to smoke.I feel that if people want to spend their money on fags and inevitably shorten their lives it is their choice;though i do hate the way my clothes and hair stink after being a bar! QUOTE=THOTH]This Country would be a darned site better if the Government would get a grip and ban Smoking, Alcohol, and Football.[/QUOTE]

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I once heard the argument that a smoking ban is like trying to ban driving for fun. Both can be recreational activities that have the potential to harm others, but most of us would never give up one or the other, and don't feel we should be made to.
Driving polutes, and can possibly cause lung cancer, although the science is a bit hazy. Passive smoking is the same. Where is the logic in banning one but not the other?
I argued that roads are for cars, and the public can stay away from roads if they dont want the risk. But then, it was pointed out that could smokers not have a seperate room in a pub and co-exist freely?
It's such a complicated subject, and it was a stalemate argument.
But like you said, it works very well in Dublin. And the Mall in Blackburn, so I've heard. At least they don't have a smoke free shopping centre with a cafe in the middle that permits smoking!!!

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I hate going to pubs, as a non smoker myself i find it very unpleasent to breath in cigarette smoke.I won't allow smoking in my house.

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Get your drift about California. Don't go to nightclubs so that doesn't really bother me (selfish i know) As for Church St, well if it's raining tend to stop in the same pub, or not go out at all.

Please don't say it's a sign of age Doug. lol.

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I don't smoke......I only smoulder, and that depends on who I am with ! No, serously.....I don't go into pubs very much these days because the smoke affects me very badly.....sore eyes, sore throat and a runny nose the next day. I feel sorry for those folk who want to have a smoke with their drink, but eventually I think smoking will be something that is permitted in the open air or in your own home.

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Hey No, serious stuff, yep I smoke but always respect someone who don't. On the pub thing, yes agree to no smoking at the bar. Most places do have smoking or non-smoking areas, or should have by now. Have been over to America several times, now there's a place, full of overweight smokers. but on my last visit I found that it's been banned in shopping malls, and other public places.

Think it's all about respecting other peoples rights, the right to smoke if you wish, or the right to object to a smoke fulled environment.My local golf club raised this at our last AGM, and agreed a compromise, you can smoke in this area, but you can't smoke in that area, which I think is a fair decision.

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That is Ok as long as the areas are well segregated.......otherwise it is like saying you can only pee in this bit of the pool........

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Lol, think it would be the smokers that were going for a pee in the small bit of the pool.
Respect everyone rights, if you do that you can not go far wrong.

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l'm suprised at how many of us are smokers in here!
You do feel a social outcast nowadays, perhaps quite rightly. Even in a cafe were smoking is permited, l do feel guilty and never enjoy it unless all the other tables around me are puffing away as well.
Right thats 21 drinks and 14 rainmates, l'll get 'em in then.

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Large Brolly? ls that a cocktail? l was gonna get you a pint.

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As a non-smoker I don't enjoy eating a meal in a restaurant if smoke is wafting over from elsewhere. It spoils the food.

It's a bit different where pubs are concerned. I don't find it as off putting in that context although I don't really enjoy the smell of stale smoke that I wake up with the next morning. It sticks to my clothes and hair.

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good ime fed up of all these feeloaders inhaling my smoke for free when i got to pay for my ciggies :D


i am curently in the process of giving up but even when i was a 40 a day smoker it pi$$ed me off when other people smoked when i was eating

smoking in bars should not be banned they should be made to install air conditioning

theres currently a no smokling bar if i am correct , used to be called millers a long time back near the railway station

smoking in bars has been there for years so if you dont like it seek alternatives

how far exactly are europe going to go with this ...?

are the famouse pub dog pictures going to have the cigretts removed from their mouths

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They have had this system in NZ since about 2003 and it works quite well. Smokers tend to go to the designated smoking area outside the pub/restaurant. There are ashtrays and usually some form of shelter provided. However, the weather is usually warmer than ours, although it can rain a lot..:( I'll miss my fag with my drink in the pub, but I will probably smoke less if I have to keep getting up to go outside. That's one more mac for you to get Garinda.:D

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That won't solve the problem; it will just give the illusion that it will.

All air con does is recirculate the air. I heard that in places where air conditioning is installed, people were off sick more because the germs were circulated everywhere, so everyone was at risk of infection.

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Hehehehe.... Should that not say snoutcast.....:D

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:o suppose youd better get me a mac too, you cant have a pint bout a ciggie if your a smoker :rolleyes:

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The weather does come into all of this. l respect non-smoking friends who prefer l smoke outside their houses. However l don't go to stay with my best friends in Scotland much anymore, especially in the winter.
P.s. A 'rainmate' is something you don't see much anymore. lt was popular with ladies who'd just had a 'set'. lt was an unattractive plastic hood that came in a little case the size of a condom. l'm working on new designs for when the bans imposed. Leaves both hands free, for suppin' and faggin', thus you won't need your large brolly!

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[QUOTE=garinda]
P.s. A 'rainmate' is something you don't see much anymore. lt was popular with ladies who'd just had a 'set'. lt was an unattractive plastic hood that came in a little case QUOTE]
Ah...........mi gran used to wear one o them:D

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It looks like you're wearing one at the moment, Park!!

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Don't waste the money getting me a rainmate, just buy me an extra pint, I reckon the smell of me drying off in the pub after getting soaked whilst having a fag will make 'em prefer the aroma of ciggies!
:s_basque:

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I think where possible pubs should have separate no-smoking areas.

Whoever thinks it works in Dublin obviously hasn't read about the boatloads of Micks coming over to Holyhead for their night out! - or the publican who has bought a double decker bus and parked it outside the pub for his smoking clientele.

Do tell me though, if smoking is banned generally and everyone gives up, how we work out the economics -

There are reckoned to be 12 million smokers in this country.
The tax on 20 cigarettes is over £2 (yes, chokes you, dunnit)
If each smoker smokes, on average, 20 cigarettes a day .....

that is £2 x 12 million every day going into the Exchequer from smokers, i.e. £24 MILLION A DAY.

That makes £8,736,000,000 every year, by my reckoning.

Where is Gordon Brown going to find that, then?

****** standing outside, everyone round my place, bring a few cans, or we'll club together and buy a barrel! - non-smokers who prefer to can drink in the back bedroom.

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pendy, top arithmatic.
i couldn't be arsed working it out but iknew it would be a lot.
where would all the revenue come from? perhaps we should tax smiling and should we frown lets tax that too.
reminds me of the taxman by the beatles..... but so i digress. i like to smoke. i agree about food outlets but pubs? no way .
as sage noel gallagher once said, " all i need are cigarettes and alcohol"

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wasnt there something in the paper about Wetherspoons profits being down by a fifth since Tim Martin announced they were going to start the smoking ban early? i run a club and 99per cent of the cudtomers smoke so hope it doesnt come in, its a dying trade anyway, might as well let the customers choose to die of alcholism or cancer themselves, they are all adults after all!

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I hate going to pubs, as a non smoker myself i find it very unpleasent to breath in cigarette smoke.I won't allow smoking in my house.

And as a smoker i will agree with you totally on that.Your house is a private thing.I smoke in my house but do not smoke in anybody elses unless i am allowed to.
However i do not agree with all this non smokers.
As an example i am a smoker and overweight.I should be a bigger risk for sickness to any company.However from persanol experience i find the skinny non smokers have had 600% more sick days than i have had in the last 10 years.

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It says that cigarettes are a deadly product. Even when used as directed, they kill their customers -- not overnight, of course, but over the long term. Cigarettes are also highly addictive, so once a person begins smoking, it's very difficult for them to ever quit, further worsening the negative health outcome.All of this is quite true. Cigarettes are indeed cancer sticks. Inhaling cigarette smoke is the closest thing to suicide other than jumping off the Golden Gate bridge or leaping from a tall bank building in downtown Manhattan. From a logical, reasonable, public health point of view, cigarettes should definitely be outlawed. They have no place whatsoever in a civilized society, and in fact, they are impairing the growth of society by reducing the longevity of our adult population and adding significantly to our overall health care costs. But then we have the libertarian argument which says that people should have the free choice to do whatever they want, even if it harms their own body. We let people engage in dangerous sports, for example -- dirt biking, mountain biking, and snowboarding -- and they're responsible for their own health outcomes in those endeavors, aren't they? Well, not exactly. When people get injured in sports, their injuries are often covered by insurance which pays the medical bills.
Suppose the government banned nicotine -- would that mean that nicotine products would vanish over night, and no one would have access to them? Of course not! All it would mean is that a huge black market of cigarettes would develop, and we would further enrich the drug dealers who are now peddling crack cocaine marijuana, and other controlled substances by handing over a huge, multi-billion dollar industry in the sales of tobacco products.
I have an alternative solution to all of this, one that keeps the free choice in the hands of the users, and yet reduces the financial impact on the public at large. And this stems from the question: why should society have to pay for the health care costs of people who choose to commit slow suicide by consuming tobacco products? If a person is going to give themselves cancer, and if they're going to do so deliberately, day after day, year after year, is that a cost that should really be borne by their neighbors and fellow citizens? It doesn't seem fair. When there are some people taking care of their health and avoiding smoking, why should those who smoke demand that everybody else pay for their health care costs? So no National health service for any smoking related diseases, pay up with private health care.

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Tax from cigarettes far out weighs the cost of health care for smokers, plus think of all the savings in pensions you don't have to pay out on!

Cars kill more people and cause more pollution world wide than cigarettes. Ban them?

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P.s. as a smoker l agree it is anti-social. So is cheap perfume, l have a choice l walk away.

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That is a valid argument on the face of it, Bazf - BUT - suppose they made tobacco products illegal. With the loss of revenue from cigarettes and tobacco I very much fear there would no longer be a Health Service. That is the very reason why tobacco will not become a banned substance.

Income tax rates are lower now than at any time since I have worked in the department and what isn't generated from that source must be recouped from elsewhere. The government-generated hysteria against smoking is a good ploy to enable the chancellor to levy higher and higher duty on tobacco without a public outcry. What a coup if the very people who are maintaining the NHS could be denied its services into the bargain.

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Yes, a fair comment Bazf, but you have the same problem over there in the USA don't you, and from experience the weed is cheaper over there than here in the UK.

Don't you also have a major problem over there with the diet thing, over eating over weight as we have here in the UK, would you deny them national health service as well.

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As i referred to in my previous post.In the 16 yesr i have been in my present firm i have the lowest sick rate of all workers.A lot of which are non smokers.Less visits tothe G.P. means less costs on the N.H.S.

Another thing is who will replace the lost 13.000.000 pond in inland revenue that will be lost by the costs of cigarettes??? The non smokers, i think not

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Helping smokers stop is cost effective. The cost per life year saved of a comprehensive treatment service is about £900. Many health economists and officials rate a treatment that costs from £5,000 to £10,000 per life year saved as very good value for money.
The development of NHS smoking cessation services means that the GP need do no more than give brief advice about stopping, prescribe a treatment and/or refer to the local service, rather than spend time trying to meet all the needs of smokers trying to quit.
Helping smokers stop will reduce the costs of treating other illnesses before they arise, releasing resources for other uses. Smoking is linked to over fifty diseases, of which over twenty are fatal. Stopping smoking significantly reduces the risk of these diseases, with some immediate gains. For example, the risk of some heart diseases and stroke falls by around a half within the first two years after stopping smoking.

Helping smokers stop will reduce surgery visits from patients as they become less vulnerable to colds, 'flu, and other illnesses indirectly linked to smoking.

Helping smokers stop will also help avoid the cost of treatment linked to the effects on smokers’ children. Around 17,000 children under five enter hospital each year with conditions such as asthma and glue ear as a result of their parents’ smoking.


Income tax rates are lower now than at any time since I have worked in the department and what isn't generated from that source must be recouped from elsewhere. The government-generated hysteria against smoking is a good ploy to enable the chancellor to levy higher and higher duty on tobacco without a public outcry. What a coup if the very people who are maintaining the NHS could be denied its services into the bargain.

The UK government earned £8,093 million in revenue from tobacco duty excluding VAT in the financial year 2003-04.
The UK goverment (NHS)spent 128,000 million on Smoking related diseases in the financial year 2003-4.


the same problem over there in the USA don't you, and from experience the weed is cheaper over there than here in the UK.

Don't you also have a major problem over there with the diet thing, over eating over weight as we have here in the UK, would you deny them national health service as well.


We dont have a national health service we pay for everything from a doctors vist to a flu shot and the weed is cheaper and it is banned in all pubs clubs and resturants in Florida and because of our weather anyone who wants to smoke can sit outside as for overweight or overeating same as smoking its a choice.

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Anybody read in the LET the other week about the eight year old on 20 cigarettes a day?

That's why we need to do as much as we can to make sure that people are aware of the dangers of smoking, and that there is a service there for them to stop if they need it.
Then, at least if people choose to smoke, I for one won't need to say, 'I told you so' when the inevitable lung cancer kicks in, as it has in one of my relatives.

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The Health service in France, is a darn sight better than ours, and yes it's free. Less tax is also levied against tobacco there too.


Like previously posted, it's positively rude not to smoke in France.:)

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Heaven forfend that we should seek to imitate the French.

As for detailing all the health benefits of not smoking I doubt a smoker would be swayed by them. The addiction has too strong a hold. They often find a way to rationalise the habit citing the revenue earned from taxing their cigarettes as a prime example of why we should not try to dissuade them. In the end it's merely an excuse and they know it but won't admit it.

I've tried to persuade someone close to me to quit and for a while during a brief period of success this person was full of self righteous admiration. Alas it didn't last and now the excuses come forth and I have tired of the discussion. If someone really doesn't want to quite they will find any available excuse to justify not doing so.

If you must smoke then please do so in the privacy of a closed room which I do not have to enter. If there is one thing I cannot stand it is inhaling second hand smoke and the smell of stale tobacco. Oh, that's two things. lol

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l' m afraid l'm going to have to withdrew your invitation to tea then. :)

lnformed choice is always more preferable to censorship, which never really works, it just goes underground like a rabbit with a weed addiction.

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I'll come if I can wear a gas mask :)

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No, but you can stand outside, lol!


Just read baz's journal, memories of 'sharing the odd herbal cigarette.'
Ah, the ex-smoker, hence the reams of unsubstantiated facts and figures. ASH?

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"As for detailing all the health benefits of not smoking I doubt a smoker would be swayed by them. The addiction has too strong a hold. They often find a way to rationalise the habit citing the revenue earned from taxing their cigarettes as a prime example of why we should not try to dissuade them. In the end it's merely an excuse and they know it but won't admit it."
This year, the smoking cessation service for Hyndburn, Ribble Valley and Blackburn with Darwen have already seen more than 1,400 people who want to give up. Public opinions are changing.

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Public opinion is changing. Historically l think they will look back at tobacco and smoking it, as madness.

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l am neither young or old, but l am in a strange predicament. l've been told by the Specialist l can't stop smoking because of the drugs l'm on. Now l have had the choice taken away from me, l of course want to stop! Typical me.

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That seems strange coming from a specialist in the health service?
When I said young I meant the 14/15/16 year olds

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Lol, yes in the health service. See my jouranal entry Dr Doom v Garindazella.

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I haven't had a ciggy for 8yrs and it was the hardest thing I ever did, I tried everything from hypnotism to acupunture from cutting down to patches, nothing worked except cold turkey and even 3yrs later I could easily have gone back to smoking, I watched my mum die of cancer didn't make me want to stop, so I agree if you don't want to you won't and I admire anyone who does, second hand smoke doesn't bother me anymore I just don't like it, but the biggest thing I noticed and it must have been so obvious when I smoked was the smell of my clothes and my wardrobe as a smoker you just don't notice it.

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Wot's all this about France, then? Has anyone else seen their latest bit of lunacy?

In line with their ban on tobacco advertising, the poster for the Sartre exhibition celebrating his centenary has had the cigarette in his hand airbrushed out!!!!!
This, for a man who smoked 40 Gauloise and a pipe every day!

The bottom line is freedom of choice. This Government has done more than anyone probably since Attila the Hun to take away such freedom. What next? Alcohol is bad for you. What price closing pubs down? and off licences? - let's get rid of all the fast food joints as well, after all, all that saturated fat in fish & chips and burgers - save the NHS a bit that way.

Then we can start on cars - no private ownership, just public transport for everyone except John Prescott and his missus (can't let her hairstyle get messed up, can we!). That should save a few bob, no more trauma surgery, we'll have space for all those poor folk needing new hips and knees.

Oh - except, of course, if they have indulged in daft things like football, skiing, etc, then we can't allow that .... self-inflicted injury.

See, we are already making up for the revenue lost on fags!