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Sad to say its just been announced that the Pope has passed way.

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Condolences sent from here!!

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May he rest in heavenly peace.

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God Bless Him

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I have no religious convictions of my own but I admired this man. Physically a strong man, he was the same in a spiritual sense; an innovator who, although conservative in many ways, brought the Catholic Church, at least, into the 20th century. The first Pope to travel the world, he had the "common touch" and he will be greatly missed.

Requiescat in Pacem.

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God bless him.........................


I hope he enjoys his life long ambition of meeting his maker, after all he will have looked forward to this day for along time.

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One of a few who bridged the gulf of the Catholic Church and the rest of Christianity. We can only give a silent prayer that his successor can build upon his work. God Bless his soul and grant his people his wisdon. Blessed be.

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RIP John Paul II and may your successor have your wisdom and carry on your good work. He really was a man who tried to build bridges between all faiths. And never did he portray that he was better than the next person. He really was a people's pope. God bless

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I have been the light of the world
But the world dimmed my flame.

I have been the beat of a dove’s heart
But the world tore itself a part.

Now I rest in state
And the world still waits.

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that's lovely doug, where did it come from?

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Me..................

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wow hidden talents eh??? well not so hidden anymore!

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You never know girl, you never know.

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It's disgusting how people take photos of his body.

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My, how well your english is inproving Xiango.......fancy.;)

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Not being disrespectful or anything but I agree. I also think that it is bad how they put his dead body on the news. It shocked me, not that I haven't seen one before (occupational hazard) but My children were watching that and I really did not want them to see a dead person, but as children do ''is that the pope mum??''' I said yes ''but he died mum!!'' me ''yes I know'' I thought here we go ''so is that a dead body??'' So then I had to explain. So no I don't think it is right that they put in on the news.

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Yes I agree with you there willow..........personal photo's maybe, but not all over the news (and close up) I really don't want to be asked questions on dead bodies off 5 and 7 year olds. They should not even have to think or worry about death so early on in life.

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My dad said something awhile ago that made me stop and think:

"As far as they [the children] are concerned, you two [my wife] will live forever"


I remember thinking that when I was a kid

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I wonder why they did it that way? Normally you would expect a "lying in state" and people to file by in homage. Maybe they thought the crowds were just too large or something. I do agree that it would have been more dignified that way.

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I think though there is a difference between accepting death and being open about it and then taking pictures of a corpse. In a way it is very morbid and I know I wouldnt find any comfort in having a picture of someones body who I loved or was close too.

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Maybe I want to hide DEAD BODIES away from my kids because, when I saw my nan (first dead body I had seen) at the age of 17 years old, I could not get the image out of my head and even dreamed about her everynight led dead in her coffin. Some thing I CAN protect my children with and that is seeing things like that, well until the news decided that EVERYONE including my kids should see the popes dead body. Yes doug I sgree with you it is undignified the way that they have delt with the body of the pope. And vorlon you are right 'i too believed that my parents would be around for ever'. I remember getting to about 13 years old and having the devistating realisation that 'THEY WON'T', and it hit hard for a couple of days.
Not only are children not comfortable with seeing dead bodies I know some adults that don't either (sorry tinks) but tinks is one of them. I am not sure if she saw it on the news but she has a genuin fear of seeing a dead body and, could not even go and say goodbye to our nan and grandad (which was hard) so people that have fears of seeing dead bodies had it forced on them yesterday if they was watching the news, which isn't right.

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I can see what you're saying slinky. I've never previously come across anyone who was afraid of seeing a dead body. Maybe it's just they way we are brought up and what we are familiar with.

I found it far more undignified and tasteless when the press printed photos of the people dead and dying in the tsunami and other disasters. To photograph them as they suffered and died was certainly OTT and uncalled for.

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Yep that I can agree with, It's disgusting and disrespectful. Imagine seeing that in the papers and it being one of your family, it just doesn't bare thinking about does it.

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I find it difficult to reconcile the Press and the Media calling the Pope "Great" and praising his dignity and bravery and then constantly force feeding us these distressing images.We don't need to see the photos to know he is gone.I think a lot of it is to because the last time a Pope died we didn't have 24 hour news and no way would the Vatican have been sending out health reports by text.It's a sign of the times and we can expect more of the same when other prominent people pass away.Oh ,by the way I am not religious but my condolences to my Catholic friends.

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The reasons for the complex ceremonial surrounding the death of the Pope are a result of doctrine and history. The papal succession was not always as orderly and civilised as it is today. Up until the seventeenth century it was not unusual for political factions to try to usurp papal authority, you have to remember that the pontificate conferred temporal power as well as great wealth. On the death of the Pope one of the first things to happen is that the ring he is given at his election, with which he seals church documents, is broken so that no one can misuse it to falsify documents.

Another important function of the funeral is to show to the faithful, the corpse of the Pontiff, to prove that he is in fact dead and that the papal throne is empty; In Sede Vacante, so that they are not lead into error by anyone who might attempt to usurp the Papal authority.

Christians believe, or should believe, that death is merely the transition from earthly life into immortal life. It is not something to be feared, rather it is something to be celebrated. This is the reason we hold wakes and believe in giving the deceased "a good send off"

There can be nothing embarrasing or unpalatable in explaining a basic fact of life to our children. If anything the sooner they get used to the idea the better. What is strange and odd however, is to want to cosset them and conceal the truth of their condition from them. How does this prepare them for life?

The preservation of tokens or relics of the dead is an activity that is as old as humanity, photography is merely an extension of this.

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This is exactly where I'm coming from A-b.

We had a great celebratory funeral for my late husband and children were welcome to attend. Most of the people he and I knew felt the same way and it wasn't odd for them to bring their children along. The service wasn't morbid at all it was full of joy at having known him with people sharing anecdotes most of them humorous. My older daughter's best friend who practically lived at our house at the time (came here after school, often had her tea here etc when she went to Spring Hill CP) asked if she could come (even though her mother didn't because she didn't know him as well.) It was that kind of funeral.

We had some songs that he'd loved sung by our choir and as I'm a member I joined in too.

I actually asked a friend who helped prepare his body for burial if he would get me a lock of hair to keep. It seemed crazy that I had thrown away so much hair when I'd previously cut my husband's hair for him and then to have a liittle curl was so important to me. So I suppose that was my version of a relic.

As far as the girls were and are concerned their Dad had no more use for his earthly body and had moved on to some exciting adventure that they'll be able to share in one day and look forward to. Death isn't something I fear and most of my friends are the same which is why I didn't understand that some people are even afraid of the sight of a deceased person. Another good reason for being able to discuss these things on here so that we widen our horizons and see things from a different perspective.

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I didn't mind Sklinky mentioning it earlier but I wasn't going to reply.

I can't speak for any body else that is afraid of seeing a deceased body but mine is just an irrational fear, it's a phobia. Some people fear things like balloons and everybody thinks thats wierd. I can't explain I am just terrified, I even feel funny typing about it :( I am a strange one at times I know!

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Well that's the value of AccyWeb because without discussing it here we'd never know we had such differing views.

I have a slight phobia about confined spaces. It isn't too debilitating but I just couldn't cope to be in a small space (no good me taking up potholing) I couldn't go through a low deep archway but it isn't that bad that I can't watch other people doing it.

Our best man's wife's balloon phobia seems to be to the extent of not even being able to be in the same pub let alone the same room as them which is a real problem for our wedding reception and we haven't found a solution to that yet.

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Oh, Willow, I feel just the same. I'm not a Christian, in the strictest sense of the word, though I have my own private beliefs. When my husband died 9 years ago, suddenly and unexpectedly, I did the same as you and had a funeral to celebrate him with a quite humourous eulogy from his best friend. It was, mainly, a secular funeral so I had secular music played - Glenn Miller and George Gershwin, as a matter of fact, because that was OUR music. My grandson, who was incredibly close to him, was only 10 at the time but he was there. He tried so hard not to cry for his Grampa, in public, but the funeral was cathartic for him. I couldn't let him see Colin, after he had died, because the cause was meningitis and it ravages the body so, for Peter, a ceremony that celebrated his beloved Gramps was important, as it was for my children with their dad.

Funerals are for the Living. They are a necessary way of expressing grief and celebrating a life. We are all going to die one day, it's part of life. Don't hide it away.

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Sorry Willow I forgot about your friends phobia of balloons I didn't intentionally reference her. My mother-in-law is also fearful of ballons but her fear is that they will burst, now to me that seems really strange. The only solution I can think of is having a balloon free area set aside for her maybe?

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I totally agree with you West Ender, I went to the funerals celebrated and grieved but I don't have to remember my loved ones in a coffin (shudder) I still get to remember their smiling faces and how they were which comforts me. I think death and grieving is a personal experience and people deal with it individually.

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Excuse the slight thread wander. We planned a balloon free region where she could still see the rest of us but not have to sit near any balloons but even that it seems is too close to balloons for her to cope with. Not even sure she can manage to sit outside knowing that they are inside. I can understand a fear of them bursting but this is more than that.

Ah well, maybe we'll find some solution.

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Don't worry about it to much Willow, it's your day, and I have no doubt eveyone will do there best to resolve the balloon issue. Not be long now.......:)

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Willow, Doug, Tinkerbelle, you can all come to MY funeral (not for a helluva long time, I hope). I'm having Glenn Miller, Grieg and Elvis played and there will be plenty of red wine and Hollands meat pies at my wake. I will be up there on a cloud, eating a steak pudding and ready to haunt anyone who doesn't say how wonderful I am (was). ;)

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Phobias aside I don't think it's a good thing to hide death from children. We will all die one day. We can't avoid that. It is also quite probable that at some time in our life we may see the body of a deceased person. Not everyone dies in hospital under "expected circumstances" Some die suddenly in their own homes. More often than not it is the spouse who is the first to see them. Should this be something to fear? I believe that if we bring our children up without an awareness of death and without the opportunity of seeing a corpse then they may have an unspoken fear of being the first to discover a deceased loved one.

There may also be circumstances where it is necessary to identify the body of a deceased family member. Provided they are not badly disfigured by the cause of death this should not necessarily be something to fear.

As a young child I never had the opportunity to see a dead body and the only awareness I had was of films where women screamed hysterically at the sight thus giving the impression that this was something unpleasant and horrible. In my teenage years I was the first person to see an elderly neighbour who had passed away peacefully in her sleep as I called to see if she needed any help. I was fascinated to see that she didn't look as I had assumed a dead person would, yet neither did she look like herself. It occurred to me that what was missing was her spirit or soul, her very life essence, the "thing" that was actually her and that what I was seeing was merely an empty shell which she had discarded.

On becoming a parent I made an active decision not to shield my own children from death but to make it such an accepted part of life that they would have no reason to fear.

I see nothing wrong with the media showing us images of the Pope and can understand the need some people have felt to photograph his body as it passed by them. If I have a relic at all then it must be the rosary which was blessed by him when he came to Manchester.

The church was criticised for not sharing enough information when the Pope was ill and accused of being unrealistic in continually sheilding us from the truth and not facing up to the fact that he was close to death, then at the end when they were open with details of how he was fading they were criticised for that. It's simply impossible to please everyone.

For those who have a real phobia about death it must be difficult but one day you will probably have to face up to it in one form or another and I hope that you have the strength to cope. If it is in any way reassuring I'd like to repeat that my first experience was in no way distressing.

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I had never seen a dead body until my nanna died last June i was 26 at the time, i was frightened but with my mum there with me i over came and i saw her it was the strangest thing i have ever seen as i saw her a few hours after she had died at the hospital, she looked strange but peaceful, she had no wrinkles they had gone. I wanted to touch her but i didnt dare my mum reassured me it was ok and said i should to over come my fear once i had touched her it was ok, she was cold but that was ok i knew she would be i too had the visions of my nannas body for ages this stuck in my head but now i have those lovely memorys, I hear her say "Anne isnt she beautiful our Lynn" she always told me i was beautiful i really miss that.

I had a dream a while ago that my nanna rang me i was astonished to hear from her because she is dead, i was listening to her voice really hard to see if it really was her and it was she had called to say she was alright now i asked her what it was like up there and she said it was beautiful i told her all of us love her and miss her and then she told me she loved me and that she had to go and she went and when i woke up it was like she had spoke to me in my dream to let me know she was ok and to let her go it was lovely.

Well i went right off thread there im sorry i got carried away with myself what was meant to say is that i saw my nannas body before it was laid out, and it was ok in the end a at least the popes body was prepared he looks peacefully asleep not like a dead body. He didnt look scary at all.

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Well they are your views A-B and we are all entitled to them, but I am their mother, and I do not wish for my children to have to think about death at a young age thankyou. If you have read my other posts I have reasons for this. And I still stand by my earlier thread and think that they should not show the world, the popes dead body. They are my views. They know what happens when people die, but I dont want them seeing dead bodies all over the t.v and papers. children should be allowed to be children I say, the longer the better these days. They grow up quicker and quicker as it is. I remember my mum saying to me when I was 15years old ''you kids grow up too quick these days, worrying about boyfriends, drinking, smoking,sex'' she said ''when I was 15years old we were still playing on parks and swings''. Then people realise why the next generation are growing up too quick.

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Oh and another thing.........people have said about funerals. I never once said 'i won't take my kids to a funeral'. Yeah thats fine, I would take my children to a funeral, but hell would freeze over first before I took them to see a dead body. Their will come a time in there life when they may/may not wish to see a dead body. But it will be their own choice when the times comes, and not forced on them by me.

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It is a worrying day when I totally agree with you Slinky, but I do. Death is not a thing for children. Whatever happened to the watershed?

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Cheeky b'gger!!!:p ............................

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I have to agree with Slinky I was 21 when my grandad died and I could not and did not want to see his body, it was a very traumatic time for me as everyone said I should because I would only regret it later, I didn't and I don't. I have never seen a dead body and to be honest I never want to, I know this will change in the future and I will deal with that when it does, they should definitely not parade dead bodies around on TV

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I know exactly how you feel Tinkerbelle, each to their own....

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Yes I agree Fibi people suggested quite strongly that it was 'the right thing to do' for me to go in and see my Grandparents. I physically couldn't and still to this day think it was the best thing for me and I don't regret it which I think is all that matters.


I also agree with Slinky nobody knows they're children better than their own parents and it should be them that decide what the children should be aware of and at what age. I would rather support my child through seeing a dead body for the first time when they are old enough to decide themselves rather than live with the fact I may have mentally scarred them by forcing them to face something like that when they were too young.

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At my brother in laws funeral the children who were present released balloons......I thought it was beautiful and symbolic.......I had never seen this done before.

I do not have any qualms about the showing of the Pope's body......as A-B says it is entrenched in tradition......but I also understand about not wanting children to see a dead body.

I was 7 years old when my Gran died of a brain haemorrhage.......I wanted to go and see her in the Chapel of Rest. My parents tried to talk me out of it, but I was adamant that I wanted to go.......I think that in the main it was to assure myself that she WAS really dead.
I was not afraid, even though her face was dark because of the bruising......and I have never regretted it.

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I agree with you unreservedly that children should be allowed to be children for as long as possible but unfortunately it's difficult to keep them away from an awareness of alcohol tobacco and sex. The moment they leave your side and go to school outside influences are there whether you like it or not.

Personally I'm not keen on the idea of Primary School children having any form of sex education and yet they talk to each other about things you may not even imagine. I would rather my children learned from a responsible adult than from rumours amongst themselves. I have always tried to openly and honestly answer any questions they may have without showing embarrassment in the hope that should they have any problems they would not be afraid to discuss them with me (or my wife).

There have probably always been children who want to try alcohol before they are legally of an age to do so. I don't encourage mine to drink and as for smoking they already tell their Granddad it's a mugs game and he should stop.

I'd like to protect my children from the worries of life for as long as possible but in a way which acknowledges that such things exist but that they don't have to concern themselves too much about them yet.

Obviously from the different responses in this thread there are people who feel that death isn't something that children need to be protected from in the same way they need to be protected from alcohol tobacco and drugs and yet others like yourself who don't even want to face it themselves. The fact that many people find a comfort in being able to see the images of the deceased Pontiff is enough reason for the papers to have published them in my opinion. It may be difficult for you to prevent your children seeing them if that is what you wish to do but one day it may be totally impossible for you to prevent them seeing a deceased person in the flesh. You have no control over when and where that may happen.

A teacher may have a heart attack whilst they are at school. An adult or a child may have a road accident. Many things occur which we have no control over and I feel that if my children are partially prepared by having no fear of death then if they do have such an experience it will be less traumatic for them.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree on that.

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Quite right. You are. And I hope that you are all suitably grateful.

However, in your statement you do not say why you think that the display of, or the manner of moving, the body of the late Pope is disgusting. I would be genuinely interested to hear your thoughts on this.

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My granddaughter, who is 5, saw the footage of the pope lying in state, on TV. She said, "Is he dead?". I told her he was. She asked, "Was he very old, then?" I said, yes, he was very old and very poorly and that was his body which he didn't need now because the real person inside wasn't there any more. I explained a bit about funerals and burial, trying to put it as gently as I could, and went on to explain that some people think the "real" person goes on living but in a way that we can't see them or touch them.

"Oh," she said, knowledgeably. "Just like our hamster."

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If kids ask,tell them!!
You shouldn't give them false reasons for anything,they hear things on the street so why not tell them the truth?

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Disgraced Cardinal leads mass for pope

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._re_eu/pope_33

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the pope did many great things

i believe he increased christianity to africa and forbid them to wear condoms

can anyone please inform me as to which country is flooding the uk with aids victims please

dont get me wrong he did try but even the pope was capable of almighty mess ups

he was after all only human

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i honestly dont know but condoms have been offered to them and they refuse them because they are not llowed to use them under the rules of their faith

i know the church/pope/etc was trying to help but in some cases i think it would be wiser for religeon to be kept out of things and let the aid workers do their job

it seems people are having no problem following the no condoms rule but arent finding the no sex rule as easy to follow

ime not attacking the catholic faith ime simply pointing out that imposing a no condom rule in a poverty stricken country rife with sexualy transmitted diseases was not the brightest idea

if i was an aid worker trying to help i would be tearing my hair out at all the aids victims ,especialy if i had been trying to educate them on safe sex and then along came somone saying no dont use condoms

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I think it is crazy about catholics and condoms. Can anyone explain to me where this comes from?

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i suppose before condoms were around the catholic faith relied on the fear of getting somone pregnant before marrage to control their followers but when condoms came along it enables sex before marrage and no one would get caught so they banned the use of them

ime pretty sure the bible dosnt say thou shalt not wear rubber lol

as for who created the rule personaly i have no idea

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I did some googling. It would appear this crazy Catholic no condom rule is killing tens of thousands of Africans every year. The more the Catholic faith spreads throughout Africa the more Africans will die. It must be Gods will of course.

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So taking temperature and counting days is natural? I don't think the 'go forth and multiply' actually means every 9 months or so, do you.

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I have to agree that it seems crazy to not employ every means possible to prevent a population boom in the poorest countries when they are already struggling with sexually transmitted diseases;famine and in some cases civil war. God's will? I don't think so;outdated practises? More like it.

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I'd hazard a guess that contraception was banned, originally, to ensure that the world population of Catholics increased rather than declined. ;)

What I find unacceptable is that this is a rule made by men who are, professedly, celibate. If the church ever relaxes enough to allow its priests to marry I think the ban might be lifted. Not that it makes much difference in the Western world. Even in the most Catholic countries you don't find many large families these days.

Remember what Dave Allen said about the Rhythm Method? There's a little man with a bongo drum sitting in the corner of the room....................:D

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Like I said I don't understand why the rhythm method is acceptable when others aren't if the reason behind the non-use of condoms is because they interfere with what is natural. So also does counting and calculating. It's still contraception whichever way you look at it.

You used to find that most large families were Catholics. Nowadays if you find a large family they're probably Mormons! :D Not that all Mormons have large families either. I haven't.

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That is probably the only logical explanation.

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no wonder there are so many gay priests you cant get a man pregnant so you dont get caught lol

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Its not the gay Priests that worry me. Its the pedophile ones that I cant understand. I cant understand any but Religious people. What makes it worse is the Vatican cover ups.

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all religeons have their flaws thats why i simply dont have one i just try to live a decent as possible life and hope that if i ever meet my maker i did enough

hope my maker is a starwars fan because as of the last census i am a jedi knight lol :D

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You are not alone mate. Read this.

There are 262 Jedi's in Hyndburn thats 0.3% of population as of 2001

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As I understand it The "rythm" method of contraception was suggested by Pope Paul VI as a response to the condemnation of prophylactic and medical contraception contained in the Papal Encyclical Humanae Vitae. It was held that any other method of contraception was inherently sinful because it attempted to thwart God's purpose. Because of the doctrine of papal infallibility in matters of faith, it was not possible for later Popes to contradict this statement by reversing the decision.

The failed cover up of the paedophilia scandal which has engulfed the American Church and is also now emerging in the Irish Church is partly due to the fact that the late Pope took autonomy away from local bishops and centralised authority in the Roman Curia. For all his promulgation of freedom it seems that John Paul did not learn too much from living under two totalitarian regimes - Nazism and Communism.

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