The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Dear Readers,
I am writing to you in utter outrage at the appalling treatment that my friends and I received when we went to the Bee Knees in Accrington town centre. We had been to a Christmas party and were in a rather merry mood and as such, a number of our group were sporting Christmas Santa hats and crown-style cracker hats.
We were making our way around the town centre pubs and enjoying the seasonal cheer, but once we got to the newly refurbished Bees Knees, our festive fun was quickly put to an end. We were approached by two door men whilst on the dance floor who asked us to remove our Santa hats. Initially we all thought they were joking, as the very idea seemed so ludicrous! So we laughed it off and tried to continue our party fun, but then they returned in number and told us we had to leave! “Not until I’ve finished my outrageously priced £3.50 drink” exclaimed one of my friends. Everyone (I say ‘everyone’ but that’s rather generous, there were merely twenty people on the dance-floor at this point-which again reinforces the question of how they can afford to be so picky about the type of headwear their clientele are wearing!) was in utter disbelief ; they could not believe that a group of girls, out celebrating the season and spending vast amounts of money, were being ejected simply for exhibiting some Christmas spirit!
Unfortunately, one of my friends decided to try and reason with the door staff. Surely that is a paradox in terms? Reason and door staff do not belong in the same sentence together! When asked why we had been removed, they simply stated it was the venue’s ‘policy’ for no hats to be worn. It’s not as if we would wear them every week, it was clearly a special occasion and so seemed slightly heavy-handed to remove a group of girls because they were infringing their strict ‘policy’. When my friend asked to see the said ‘policy’, she was refused. She then asked to see the manager, who was conveniently unavailable at this point. They did say, however, that those with the cracker hats on were ‘OK’ as they could see under them? What did they think we were hiding under there exactly?! Knives? Bottles of booze? Weapons of mass destruction!? As they were being so illogical, my friend then asked if they would apply the policy to an Indian Sikh wearing a turban, but of course, they said it was not the same issue. Is the Santa hat not a signifier of the Christian festival of Christmas? Clearly, this is a rule that they can pick and choose who it applies to. A vulnerable group of girls, doing nothing wrong, were an easy target to make these door staff look like they were keeping the peace, when in fact, they were doing nothing but creating the trouble themselves; is it any wonder people are afraid to go out in Accrington when you get treated like this?
The final nail in the coffin of our night was when one of the group nipped back inside to grab something they had left behind and the two door staff quickly grabbed her and launched her in to the street. This is simply not acceptable. We were not a group of angry, snarling girls when we went out, far from it in fact, but by God, did those door staff manage to create a monster after evicting us.
When did it become so difficult to enjoy a night out without trouble? It is supposed to be the time of good will to all men but instead we were treated like the scum of the earth. I am still in disbelief that this establishment has deemed Santa hats as offensive and potentially dangerous? To anyone out to have a good time this Christmas, I strongly suggest you avoid the Bee Knees if you intend on enjoying yourself (and wearing a hat)!
yours,

Disgruntled Santa Hat....:mad:

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

write to the manager and tell him you are going to the papers, you'll soon see how a policy can be turned on its head

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

I agree with flashy.......contact the manager by phone and also in writing, if they treat you like this then they will do it to others. They need to realise that public houses(because that is all it is) need their customers if they want to survive

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Is it worth the hassle Margaret, will get nowhere trying to reason with these people.....heard nothing good about that place since it re-opened and I for one will never frequent the place, so all their stupid rules will put them out of business as I am sure there are a lot of people out there of the same mind as me
:confused:

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Lynx, if no one complains then nothing will ever be done, i'd rather go out of my way to complain than just let something ride and never get sorted

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

I worked for many years in the nightclub industry as a doorman (pubs didn't have bouncers in those days) and we did have very rigid dress policy, but not for women's dress, shoes yes, as in no trainers, the reason being, you can't dictate women's fashion. Reading the policy regarding the Bees Knees, seems that this so call policy is being enforced to the letter (the policy was probable designed with regards to hooded garments) I would certainly put any complaints in writing to the management, I don't know much about who owns this establishment, but if its part of a chain the letter should be sent to the head office not the Accrington venue

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

It's not a new thing, a few years ago we had an accyweb meet in town, some of us met in the Bees Knees to begin with.
Absolutely no problem until about 8 O'clock when the Bouncers arrived for duty, one of them walked straight up to Tealeaf and told him to sup up and go, when asked why he was told because of the trainers he was wearing.
Those trainers had caused no trouble for the three quarters of an hour they had been in the pub before the 'Greeters' arrived and the only trouble afterwards was between the bouncer & the trainers.
Tealeaf left and so did the rest of us leaving the pub empty.

By the way I was wearing a pair of work shoes, they had steel toe caps, which is worse, trainers or work shoes?
:rolleyes:

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

i would have taken the trainers off, left them at the door and gone back in, just to p!ss them off

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Like Flashy, I do think it is worth it.
These people are part of a service industry, and they need to provide a service.......and one that is acceptable to patrons.
If they go to the wall there are people who will not have a job....and I am not thinking of just the bar staf, but the people who make the products sold, the drivers who deliver the stuff......it has a knock on effect.

Is the Bee's Knees a tied house or is it 'free'?
I would be contacting the brewery if it is tied and if it is a Free house I would be contacting the owner. I would also make a point of contacting all the local press too.
You just cannot afford bad publicity in such circumstances.

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

well said Marg

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

To ramshackles,

a few points to clear.

As mentioned to you on the evening the door team tried to appologise to you for asking you to remove your santa hats and would have allowed your party re-entry to the venue if it wernt for individuals in your party becoming violent towards 2 of the door supervisors.

at no point were any of your party "thrown" into the street, you where simply walked without the use of force in any respect.

You where originally ejected for refusing to remove your hats and then accusing the door supervisors of being racist by suggesting that a Muslim person would not be treated in the same manner. to which the response was yes they would,besides which a Muslim person is forbidden to consume alcohol so that is irrelevant.

Apart from the original request to remove your hats which was apologized for, you where not mistreated in any manner. the door team at the bees knees take great pride in the way they work and always strive to make the venue a safe and fun environment for all ,This is apparent with the bees knees receiving positive feedback and also with the hundreds of people that return to this venue every week.

Finally , i can appreciate that you are upset, but you need to understand your violent behavior is the reason for your overall ejection from the venue. not your Santa hats.

Kind Regards

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

sigh if only the place could go back to when the beer was crap,the atmosphere was great and the sewing machines made damn fine tables with a great view downstairs to the pool tables where you could loose yourself in the view of the clevage on display :D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Does this mean you don't allow them to buy alchohol ? I doubt it, so while I can understand there are probably 2 sides to this story, that point is also irrelevant :D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Oi Mobius1

I shall make a point of visiting your establishment at some time next week and vomiting all over your lousy bar.

Unlike last time, I shall not be wearing trainers so you won't know me and won't be able to throw me out until the deed is done.

Kind regards,

T

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Ah the good old days accyman:D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Muslims don't drink ya reght:rolleyes:

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

And they don't wear "santa hats" ;)

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

err um ... don't think so , don't think the three wise men visited the North Pole and Santa's workshop , according to the legend they came from the east ;) :D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Think i would sooner keep my hat on and go to somewhere with a friendlier atmosphere.

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Came from the east.. maybe Bradford? :D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

wonder how theyre going to go on later on today .. as its mad friday .. or so ive been told ..

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

i havnt been for ages so i cant say if theres a no hat warning on the entrance or not but theres gonna be plenty of santa hats about friday night

ill be in great harwood they dont mind xmas there :D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

my mate played a gig at the Bee's a few weeks back and he didn't have much to say about the place, it'll never be like it was, especially with planks like the new staff they have, it'll be shut again in no time

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Oh come on Mancie they were Arabs :Dnot many of them in Bradford:p

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

What ever you do don't stray into Rishton the only entertainment there is watching the traffic lights change:D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

to tealeaf

I am not sure if you are refering to the previous incarnation of the bees knees or not. however trainers are permitted in the venue. the dress code is smart or casual aslong as you are not wearing one of the following. tracksuit pants, training bottoms ,shorts or hats.

i would hope you wouldnt put yourself through the embarrasment and discomfort of purposely vommiting in the bees knees to get your own back at the wrong people :).

Kind Regards

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Moby mate, there's a recession on & that being the case you need as many people on your side as possible, look how many boozers are folding on a regular basis, you need to have a word with your boys & explain to them the benefit of tact & not bullishly & mindlessly following rules, the "I'm in charge here" attitude pishes people off right proper.

Perhaps requesting to see what's under the hat & then letting them put them back on as opposed to demanding removal or else, would your lads demand this of a Seikh ? Or would that be seen as provocation ? Sadly in this day an age we have to administer a touchy feely attitude to all & sundry regardless of your views & attitudes. So I suggest you educate your Boys, sooner rather than later or you'll be on here posting your closure notice. ;)

It's just a word to the wise, has this helped ?

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Hi dave,

Although i personally agree with what you are saying, from a door supervisors point of view we are not the rule makers. we have discression, but if we do not follow the venues requests then we are not doing the job we are paid for and will ultimately be replaced by someone who will.

Our purpose at the venue is to enforce their rules and to ensure that everyone is safe as much as possible. for the most part people dont generally have a problem with taking their hats off inside the venue.

most venues have rules of entry, some i agree with ,some i dont. either way we have to enforce them.

Kind Regards

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

"I was only following orders"
.....does Nuremburg come to mind? :D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

I agree with Mobius on this one .. .he was only following the rules as set by his employers (Amber Taverns ?) as we all have to at work, whether you agree or not. The owners have the right to lay down restrictions on dress if they wish.

Would like to know the reason though for the 'no hat' rule .. we are only speculating at the moment. Suspect it may been originally to cover balaclavas and base ball caps ?

As for trainers (ok they are accepted by the Bees Knees), if any bloke turned up in the evening to take me out and had these on his feet would be a quick 'bye-bye' ... LOL.

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

That I can understand, but again tact, a look & that's fine, put them back on girls :D (The HATS!) even the man himself made this point :-

As mentioned to you on the evening the door team tried to appologise to you for asking you to remove your santa hats and would have allowed your party re-entry to the venue

So what then is the problem ? Were the Boys a tad over zealous in their enforcement or over presumptuous of the rulings (which seems to be an inherent problem in UK at all levels & all walks of life, Jobsworths ?). Surely it must be an exercise in common sense from all Parties ?

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

This will be my final comment on this.

The santa hat issue was dealt with and an appology was attempted. however as mentioned in my original response to this, 2 of the customers involved then became violent to the door staff and for that reason and only that reason were they denied re-entry to the venue.

the blame lies on both sides of this incident some with the door supervisors and some with the customer.

as a result a discussion has taken place with management and we are now allowing people to wear santa hats if they so wish.

This really wasnt a big issue and is being blown out of proportion.

Kind Regards

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Good news :D - discretion in the interpretation of orders has won the day.

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

whilst thats good, santa hats should never have been n issue in the first place wi any sensible company.:rolleyes:

One of my friends only wears tracksuit pants, the reason being, he suffers in the joints of his hands and can no longer use trousers with flies, would he be listened to and allowed in under such circumstances or would he be barred from entry by some enthusiastic 'jobs worth'?

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

I like wearing hats - I have quite a large collection.
None of them conceal my face, so I shouldn't be a problem to you.
(I won't be, because I don't frequent your sort of establishment. I won't be 'taking my hat off to you';))
Hats can be a stylish accessory to a colour co-ordinated outfit and provide an essential winter warmer addition.


PS you would go down like brick if you tried to attract wedding parties.

This is to illustrate how ludicrous the rule is

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

he's only changed his mind cos its mad Friday and if he doesn't let people in with them on tonight then the pub will be empty GEEEEEENIUS

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

seems to me like the typical attitude of the modern day doorman. they seem to forget why they are employed in the first place to protect the staff AND the customers by using discretion and tact not to prance about like wannabe mafiosas using bully boy tactics on people who are enjoying themselves harmlessly. The santa hats should never be an issue and i'm afraid to say moby you are in the wrong job, your customers are everything and you are there to provide a service to them, this is why it is called the HOSPITALITY industry and it is the management's responsibility to constantly adapt to changing trends and yearly events so as to cater for the masses and therefore to be better than the rest believe it or not that is how you get customers through the door and customers = profit or do they not teach that in landlord school nowadays.

take it from an ex pub manager (and former staff trainer for the bees knees when it was owned by devonshire pub co.) it's either time to cut your losses and exit stage left or change your thinking and management style before the bees knees ends up the way of many of our great watering holes......... an indian restaurant.

rant over!:do-one:

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Or the DHSS, always wondered what the SS stood for:D

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

i take it we won't be going in there tomorrow night then????

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Having once worked the doors Mobius I see where your coming from. Back in 74 I was working the main entrance to the Cav in Blackburn on what was known as the Bridge, i was only early around 8-15pm so I was alone (would be joined by 5 others at 8-30) the side door opened and a really smart bloke came in, he had a powder blue denim suit on with a black polo neck sweater. I aid I'm sorry Sir we have a no denim policy in the club so can not allow you to enter, oh, can I see the manager please, well he will only say the same thing sir, I'm sorry, I would really like to see the manager if I may, okay, so I asked the receptionist to ring Phil the manager and ask him to pop down to reception, which he did, I told him the story and we went onto the bridge, I've never seen colour drain out of anybodies face so fast, do you know who that is, No, he owns the blood place, seems it was the CEO John Smith.:o:o But the bottom line is I got complimented by Mr Smith for the polite and professional way I had dealt with the situation

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

errrrrm......
in a word...............................NOPE!

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

..............or clog up the roulette machines in Coral........:rolleyes:

Re: The Bees Knees Christmas Spirit (or lack of it!)
 

Heaven forbid, ups silly me that should be Paradise :D