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Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 14:00

What's This?
 
2 Attachment(s)
I spotted this the other day, almost hidden behind the lamp. It used to be a reclining woman carved in what looked to be either Limestone or Marble. She appears to have lost her head recently as well as acquiring a coat of paint. I can't say that it is an improvement.

It's hard to make out the shape in the photo so I did a rough outline in the second photo.
Still, any ideas who she might be, and where she might be found or why she is sitting there at all?

mez 27-07-2004 15:16

Re: What's This?
 
i think it could be a woman at a weaving loom. but then im always wrong//

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 15:21

Re: What's This?
 
Lying down? I don't think weaving was ever that relaxed luv!:D

mez 27-07-2004 15:45

Re: What's This?
 
well its a dead woman then told you im alus wrong //he he

JohnW 27-07-2004 15:59

Re: What's This?
 
Maybe the lamp should be red rather than white?

mez 27-07-2004 16:09

Re: What's This?
 
could the lamp be over a church door? if so is it not the body of jesus?

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 16:45

Re: What's This?
 
>>could the lamp be over a church door?<<

Brave try but, sadly, wrong. The only worship that goes on in here is strictly of the more venal kind.

Tealeaf 27-07-2004 16:48

Re: What's This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob
>>could the lamp be over a church door?<<

Brave try but, sadly, wrong. The only worship that goes on in here is strictly of the more venal kind.

Thats a Strong word, Bob......you got any evidence of that? I'm sure we'd love the details.

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 17:01

Re: What's This?
 
Hmmm. Interesting point. I was using the word in the catholic sense of 'Venal Sin', meaning a minor misdeed and also alluding to the worship of Venus, vaguely. However, on checking the jolly old OED, I find to my consternation that the word means 'able to be bribed or corrupted' which is not what I meant at all! The word I should have used is 'Venial'. I am glad we cleared that one up, but it just goes to show, you can't be too careful. Thanks Tealeaf.

As a further clue, and to muddy the waters a little. Thomas Arne.

Tealeaf 27-07-2004 17:05

Re: What's This?
 
Cheers Bob...I'm glad we're back on the right track. I was absolutely certain that lamp and ornament did'nt hang outside the town hall....but you've definatly got my memory cells on overtime here...

Is that piccy taken outside the Warners arms, by any chance?

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 17:09

Re: What's This?
 
>>Is that piccy taken outside the Warners arms, by any chance?<<


Nope!

Tealeaf 27-07-2004 17:16

Re: What's This?
 
OK..i'm lost now.....was it Arne who wrote the version of "God Save the King?Queen".............if so, it's not outside the Kings/Queens pub in Accy, is it?

JohnW 27-07-2004 17:18

Re: What's This?
 
Your reference to Thomas Arne would suggest it is something to do with music. Is it a dance hall or old theatre perhaps. You'll have to excuse me, I don't know which, if any, of the old cinemas/theatres/dance halls are still standing. Maybe what was/is the Berkley?

Doug 27-07-2004 17:19

Re: What's This?
 
Long shot here. Is this in Abbey Street?

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 17:23

Re: What's This?
 
>>OK..i'm lost now.....was it Arne who wrote the version of "God Save the King?Queen"<<

>>Your reference to Thomas Arne would suggest it is somewhere to do with music.<<

Music is close-ish. But come on chaps, we are British, aren't we? (no pun intended)

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 17:26

Re: What's This?
 
No Doug, it isn't in Abbey Street.

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 17:32

Re: What's This?
 
Try this:

The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
Must in their turn, must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
While thou shalt flourish, shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.
Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful, from each foreign stroke,
More dreadful, more dreadful from each foreign stroke
As the loud blast that tears the skies,
Serves but to root thy native oak.
Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame;
All their attempts to bend thee down,
All their attempts, all their attempts to bend thee down,
Will but arouse thy generous flame,
But work their woe and thy renown.
To thee belongs the rural reign,
Thy cities shall with commerce shine
Thy cities shall, thy cities shall with commerce shine
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles thine.
The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coast repair,
Shall to thy happy coast, thy happy coasts repair,
Blest isle! with matchless beauty crowned,
And manly hearts to guard the fair.

Tealeaf 27-07-2004 17:37

Re: What's This?
 
OK.............are we looking at the entrance to a pub?

JohnW 27-07-2004 17:37

Re: What's This?
 
Well you've lost me Bobby boy. Has it something to do with the British Legion or a Barracks somewhere?

Doug 27-07-2004 17:41

Re: What's This?
 
Imam Muhammad Shirazi? Warm or Cold

Tealeaf 27-07-2004 17:45

Re: What's This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Imam Muhammad Shirazi? Warm or Cold

???????????????????????

I would assume the woman, led down in what appears to be a cave of sorts, is some symbol of oppression/imprisonment/lack of freedom & the light casts something into the dark shadow............so if it's not a pub, is this a chapel or a church?

Doug 27-07-2004 17:45

Re: What's This?
 
Rule, Britannia

Tealeaf 27-07-2004 17:49

Re: What's This?
 
Good 'un, Doug...............are their two Britannia's in Hyndburn? One up Ossy & where's the one in Accy?

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 17:49

Re: What's This?
 
AT LAST!

Yes, Rule, Britannia. Written by Thomas Arne. the Statue is located above the main entry to the Britannia on Nuttal Street. I assume that the decapitated figure is that of Britannia herself. Anyone confirm this assumption?

Tealeaf 27-07-2004 17:54

Re: What's This?
 
Why do you the statue could be Britannia? if the words are "Britons never, never, never shall be slaves..."then surely this is a reference to a slave...Britannia is normally pictured standing upright, and not down in an enclosed space...I think this is a cracking little pun. It's the Arndale Clock of it's day!

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 18:06

Re: What's This?
 
If you look at some of the older penny coins, Britannia is shown seated. If you look on early victorian coins she is depicted seated and leaning slightly backwards. I am guessing here but it's not really too far of a move to depict her in a semi-recumbant pose. Honestly though the figure is a mystery. It may be that it pre-dates the pub and was included as a makeshift Britannia on the basis that owt is better than nowt.

Doug 27-07-2004 18:14

Re: What's This?
 
Was she not depicted reclined suckling a lion at some point.

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 18:19

Re: What's This?
 
2 Attachment(s)
I have found these if it helps, though I don't think it does. I haven't heard about her suckling a lion though. Don't we have strange goddesses in this country?

Doug 27-07-2004 18:21

Re: What's This?
 
I and some of the bu**ers are still living

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 18:27

Re: What's This?
 
looking at the close up again I noticed that the upper right hand corner does not sit right with the surrounding stone work. It looks as though it has been inserted after the building was finished. The other thing I noticed is that there may be some incised words in the arch, or this may just be a trick of the light.

Doug 27-07-2004 18:33

Re: What's This?
 
I think your right there. It looks to be old though, Victorian?. I think it maybe a Romano British depiction.

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 18:47

Re: What's This?
 
I would say that the majority of buildings in that area don't go back much further than 1860 - ish, give or take a few years. The Britannia is situated on the end of a terrace. So I would say that it is contemporary with the rest of the terrace.

You don't suppose that the building might have had a previous use not connected with the licensed trade? That could explain it possibly.

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 18:48

Re: What's This?
 
Romano British? You mean some sort of river deity?

Doug 27-07-2004 18:51

Re: What's This?
 
Yep, there's 2 or 3 possibles, but I can't spell their Bl**** names.

Acrylic-bob 27-07-2004 20:01

Re: What's This?
 
Have a go, if you type what it sounds like, I will probably be able to guess.

mez 27-07-2004 23:14

Re: What's This?
 
o eck youve got me puzzeled, come on on tea help
////

Acrylic-bob 28-07-2004 04:01

Re: What's This?
 
Well, you could have Sequana.
Verbeia was the personification of the River Wharfe.
Or you could have Brigantia who was the tutellary Goddess of this part of Britain.

Tealeaf 28-07-2004 16:59

Re: What's This?
 
Forget the Romans - what about Persephone,Greek goddess of the underworld?

JohnW 28-07-2004 17:00

Re: What's This?
 
I thought Sequana was godess of the River Seine and that Verbeia and Brigantia had Yorkshire connections rather than Lancastrian.

Acrylic-bob 28-07-2004 19:38

Re: What's This?
 
You are right about Sequana, though my understanding was that she was of Burgundian origin. Brigantia held sway over most of northern England.

Why would Persephone be lounging over the doorway of a Public House called 'The Britannia'?

Tealeaf 29-07-2004 07:55

Re: What's This?
 
I have'nt a clue...but look at the design again. Our "heroine" is reclining is reclining in what appears to be a cavern or vault of some sort....hence underworld. Maybe it was put there for decoration & nowt else, although I doubt it.

JohnW 29-07-2004 10:49

Re: What's This?
 
Looking at the photograph carefully, I have to agree that I don't think this is the original resting place of this particular sculpture. It really does look as if the stonework has been chipped away to accomodate the thing. I'm sure it would help identification if we were aware of its original location, but, I doubt very much we are going to find out where that was. Interesting stuff nevertheless.

Doug 29-07-2004 10:52

Re: What's This?
 
How about couple of more shots to see if the insrcription gives any clues.

Acrylic-bob 29-07-2004 17:19

Re: What's This?
 
I will do better than that. I will pop in on Sunday afternoon and make enquiries of the Landlord, while sampling some of his wares - purely in the interests of research you understand.


I know what you mean Tealeaf, but I always felt that it actually had more of a feel of Victorian memorial/mourning cards. You know the sort of things that the bereaved family used to have printed to hand out to mourners so that they could have something to stick in their prayer books and thus remember the dear departed when they were in church. The arch and the spandrels (?) look more like an attempt at conveying a graphic device. If there is script on the arch then that would more or less confirm that supposition.

Acrylic-bob 28-08-2004 08:23

Re: What's This?
 
1 Attachment(s)
I think I may have found the solution to the puzzle. Eltham Palace in London carries a carving above the door which is similar to the one on the Britannia. It is titled 'Hospitality' Rather fitting for a pub, don't you think?


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