were is this ?
 

Attachment 15550
we been lookin at this pic on the wall in the Arden inn and no one seems to know were it is ?? any ideas ,
ian

Re: were is this ?
 

Its Broadway, well before Marks and Spencers was built.

were is this ?
 

Hi, this help a bit?

Re: were is this ?
 

If you want any more photos of that area, I will post some tomorrow.

Re: were is this ?
 

Great, look forward to that, Atarah. Is that mill in the first photograph on the site of the cinema?

Re: were is this ?
 

i thought that was the opposite side wyn?:confused: i took the white bit between the two lamps to be the owd culvert cover oer the river stink?

Re: were is this ?
 

Got me puzzled the layout seems a bit off.
I thought it was Marquis St at first but now I have my doubts, reposted picture with queries.
Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

its had me scratching me head.:confused:

Re: were is this ?
 

what actually stood were M@S n shops before the sunken gardens? plus what stood on owd broadway car park? can remember streets behind odean but thats it.:confused:

Re: were is this ?
 

Nothing it was a large patch of rough ground,
there was a barrage ballon site on there during WW2, it was fenced off from Broadway with a 7' high wooden fence, the streets behind where the Odeon was were Cobden St & Mason St.
The river stink was open It didn't get culverted till they did the car park, the entrance was in Union St, next to where the Blackburn bus stand was. This was before they built the Arndale.

Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

cheers walter, still baffeled wi the layout of photo, thought i was gettin somewhere.:confused::)

Re: were is this ?
 

Perhaps it is the picture's quality, but I cannot place this location.I am not recognisiong anywhere/ Do the background buildings give a clue as to which direction we are looking? I will have to visit the Arden and examine the picture whilst sampling a pint of John Willie.

Re: were is this ?
 

you are having the same conversation we have been having for the last month!
picture is a bit bad ,(cause i don't know how to put pics off iphone on to comp ) :enough:so i had to take pic of phone with my old phone !
ian

Re: were is this ?
 

Still reckon it's taken from a similar spot and looking in the same direction as the later photograph with the cinema. If you look in the top lefthand corner, you can see the same building with a steeply sloping roof (the church that used to be on Whalley Road?). Could it be taken after Broadway had just been constructed, but before the Regal/Odeon had been built?

Re: were is this ?
 

yeh may be right, am trying hard to remember the layout of the owd streets,:confused: if the white bit is the river stink though, it must not be the culvert, as wasn't built then, yet it looks raised.:confused: thats throwing me big time.

Re: were is this ?
 

I can't understand that bit, either, but those rows of houses look like the ones that were behind the cinema. What about the building in the top righthand corner? Is that not the works that was (and maybe still is) near the bottom of Dowry Street?

Re: were is this ?
 

don't think so, whittakers foundry was on next row up, opposite side, but it dont look like that to me.:confused:

Re: were is this ?
 

Oh well, maybe not, then. Still reckon that mill is on the site of what became the cinema. The identical church (?) building in the background clinches it for me. Wonder if anyone like Atarah or Retlaw can confirm that Broadway was built before the Regal?

Re: were is this ?
 

It might not be Accy.

Re: were is this ?
 

if it is that section,i reckon the mill is were the top gardens were, on basis that the river stink was not that high up? assume it ran under the odean?

Re: were is this ?
 

Originally Posted by Retlaw View Post
Got me puzzled the layout seems a bit off.
I thought it was Marquis St at first but now I have my doubts, reposted picture with queries.
Retlaw.

REGARDING "WATERWHEEL" THINGY ON PICTURE,...LOOKS LIKE THE TOP OF THE OTHER LAMPOST TO ME

Re: were is this ?
 

It didn't run under the Odeon. I remember when the town hall side of Broadway had a fenced off section where the covered market later was.
The fence was vandalised with words 'dont let our boys die for the yanks in Korea' (helps with dating it), and behind that fence was a sunken wasteland area where the culvert was visible.

Re: were is this ?
 

Attached is the area in 1909, look closely at Cobden St & Mason St, the properties were still there after the Regal/Odeon was built. I can remember Pot Fairs being held behind the Odeon.
The angles in the picture don't match with the street plan
Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

Perhaps whomever painted it did it from memory? n like me their memorys crap.:D

Re: were is this ?
 

Could the factory on the photograph not be the building just above the point of your arrow, Retlaw? Seem to remember that the street behind it, which is unnamed on the map, was called Cunliffe Street (if the cinema did indeed replace it on that site).

Re: were is this ?
 

Its not a painting Cashy, Its a photograph thats been tinted.
Perhaps its not Accrington, but a picture left behind by a previous landlord.

Is there anything written on the back of it, or a title hidden by the frame.

Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

if its a photo then, i tend to think the same.

Re: were is this ?
 

Yes it was Cunliffe St, but when you look at the street plan and compare it with the photo there are no large buildings akin to mills on the plan looking in the area of the Odeon site.
I'm begining to think its nowhere near that area and were are being conned.
Retlaw

Re: were is this ?
 

So you don't reckon the building shown on the south side of Cunliffe St on the map is the factory in the picture? No, probably not...I'm also coming round to the conclusion that it's somewhere completely different which just looks like that area!

Re: were is this ?
 

I still think it is Broadway and, the chapel, is the Whalley Road one too.

The street lamps (not water wheel .... tee hee .. Retlaw says I need specs) .. are of the style of other photographs of what is now Broadway, and in the same position.

Also, Bob Dobson talks in one of his books that the Regal cinema was built on the site of Myers Stable ... this does resemble more of a large stabling building ... not a mill ?

The streets look that they are ones running up to Cobman Street/Whalley Road. Mason Street, etc. Can't see where the first little street is named anywhere ?

Though Retlaw doesn't think there is a culvert there .. does seem to make sense with the run of the river.

Re: were is this ?
 

Thanks, Kate, that's swung me back to my original theory - it's Broadway when it was first built.

Re: were is this ?
 

[quote=katex;783481]I still think it is Broadway and, the chapel, is the Whalley Road one too.

The street lamps (not water wheel .... tee hee .. Retlaw says I need specs) .. are of the style of other photographs of what is now Broadway, and in the same position.
Ok Medusa.
I've put my specs on and reposted the picture with additions, and before you comment, look at the street plan I put up, and then the picture.
Show me exactly where Cobden St & Mason St on the plan, are shown in the picture.

Retlaw

Re: were is this ?
 

Hi.
Re Retlaws photo, taken from the roof of the Market Hall.
"if this is the River Stink....." is Broadway, there is lamp post on M&S side with its base on the pavement. Over the fence/wall where the lamp post is,is the culvert over the river which had a half round top it ran parallel to Cornhill. Atarah's photo (post 3) shows the continuation of it just visible over the wooden fence on this side of Broadway, as MargaretR states in post 22. Cobden St.is on the far left of the photo. Cunliffe St. is the one to the left of Myers Stables? Cunliffe St. (photo shows 2 & 1/2 houses) ran up the side of the Odeon.
The Chapel is the one on Whalley Rd. ( do'nt remember its name)(Wynonie post 14). I dont know what that foundry/factory is /was I never ventured that way.
Tetti

Re: were is this ?
 

Here is a smashing view, which may help you to decipher things.

"Broadway was transformed beyond recognition during the course of the 20th century. The road layout altered in the 30's when Broadway was built to link Blackburn Road and Whalley Road. This opened summer of 1936. It involved the culverting of the river Hyndburn and the demolition of properties i.e. SPRING MILL buildings. Spring Mill was a HUGE town centre weaving mill. It was a four storey building and was purchased by the Corporation in 1920. Closed approx 1930. Complete demolition took place in the early 1930's. The old Thwaites pub on the corner of Broadway and Blackburd Rd was also demolished. The new cinema, the Odeon, opened 1937 (originally called The Regal)"

Re: were is this ?
 

I recon Atarah is right , ,and if its not in accy why is it with all the other accy pics ??
ian

Re: were is this ?
 

Me too ... :D

Do you think the chimney in the picture top right hand could be Queen's Mill ?

Re: were is this ?
 

I don't think it is Broadway. Retlaw's 1909 plan helps . The street lamps do look as if they might be 1930s style, but could also be earlier. They appear to be electric rather than gas and are high up. The large building top right corner is nothing like anything in Whalley Rd area.

Re: were is this ?
 

Great photo, where was it taken from? i think up past the Broadway pub somewhere.:confused:

Re: were is this ?
 

Definitely reckon it's Broadway now...and Atarah's picture proves it. The building in the original picture (Myers Stables?) is there for all to see in the middle of the second picture with the houses on Cunliffe St to the left of it.

Bob, you say there was nothing like the large builidng in the righthand corner of the original picture but, again, it's there on Atarah's picture in the lefthand corner.

Re: were is this ?
 

From that view I think it was taken from the upstairs window of a building on Blackburn Rd, About 3 or 4 buildings past the bank at the bottom of St James St.
Both pictures together.
Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

wheres the Town Hall then?:confused:

Re: were is this ?
 

Think it must've been taken from the back of the town hall, Cashy. You can actually see the windows in the top storey of the Broadway above those houses to the right of the building we're puzzling over. I assume these houses were demolished to builid those little gardens at the top left of Broadway?

Re: were is this ?
 

What do you reckon, Retlaw? Now you've put the two photos together, I'm convinced that building is the same. Even the arrangements of the skylights are the same - all the way along on the righthand section, halfway along on the lefthand section.

Re: were is this ?
 

is that the culvert then oer river stink? running under road near top of telegraph pole. if so yer right i think.

Re: were is this ?
 

Yeah, that's it, you can see it to the right of Broadway where it used to be exposed, before they built the "umbrella" open market in '61/'62. To the left of Broadway it continues but looks strangely flattened to my eyes.

Re: were is this ?
 

What did i start here then !!! Broadway it is then , :) ,i may get a pint out of this !!:mosher:
ian

Re: were is this ?
 

yeh deserve a pint its dead interesting to me.:)

Re: were is this ?
 

To the RIGHT of the picture out of shot.
Do as Snakehead says an put thi pint deaun n pud thy glasses on.
Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

wish i could put me pint down mate:eek: got me thinking just up to left of telegraph pole, would the little whiteish building wi 3 windows, be the factory that used to be the Dowry st picture palace?

Re: were is this ?
 

Hi.
Thanks Atarah for the photo of the construction of Broadway with a view directly up Burnley Rd. showing the white gable end of the house next to petrol station at the end of Windsor St., to the left is St.Johns Church on the skyline. At first I thought the photo had been taken from roof of the Town Hall but now I agree with Retlaw that it was taken a little bit further back, probably the roof of the bank, showing the roof of the pub or the old Police Station (bottom left).
Tetti

Re: were is this ?
 

Yep, cheers, Atarah, that's a fascinating photo. Have you any more of that area?

See what you mean about it being taken from the bank and not the Town Hall. STILL reckon the first photo is Broadway, though!

Re: were is this ?
 

Ace! I love these type of discussions, dont you? All these "super sleuths" on Accyweb! Nice one Ian1 !

Re: were is this ?
 

If you put a ruler on the 1909 map the line of Burnley Road and the realignment of Marquis St thro Spring Mill, it comes out nearer to Boots than to the bank, I don't think they went up on the roof, more like from an upstairs window.

Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

I think it is broadway surely the river was covered in front of what was to become the odeon so that bit looks OK? I think that the waterwheels are gas/electric lights and I don't think it is macpelah because it was the old mill next to it and that does not look like it
I am not often right these day's but it keeps the thread going
Tony

Re: were is this ?
 

Hi
OK Retlaw I'll agree with you it probably was taken from above Boot's (but the window nearest the bank:)) I used a biro to line up Burnley Rd. with the bank but it was a bit short and used "rack of eye" for the last bit, or you're using that wooden contraction rule that Charlie Moore gave you when you were an apprentice.:D
Wynonie these two photos are both of Broadway taken from different positions and different periods, there is a building that is common to both photos and thats the one with the gable front, 6 windows on the upper floor and 1 above that could have been used for loading goods to the loft. It's upper left in the old photo and upper right in Atarahs photo. Another buildlng that is common to the photos and the map is the one that runs between Cunliffe St. and Cobden St., the one with the " waterwheel " on its gable end,on the map it doe'snt say what it is could it be the Macpelah Chapel??
Tetti

Re: were is this ?
 

Sorry I got it wrong with that building it should have read upper left in Atarahs photo annd upper right in the original.
Tetti

Re: were is this ?
 

Presume you mean the old location of Boots, which was on Blackburn Road :confused:

Think though, has been taken from St. James's Chambers ... which, of course, are the offices above the bank and are pretty high up ... used to work in one of them.

Hey, unless some enterprising fireman with an interest in local history, used one of the ladders (now ya' going to tell me didn't have them then .. :D)

Re: were is this ?
 

The top floor of St James Chambers was part of the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance office until Melbourne House was built.
The public entrance was that solid door between the shops next to where the Bata shoe shop was. Callers had a flight of steps to negotiate.

Re: were is this ?
 

Thought entrance was on St James St Margaret?

Re: were is this ?
 

Eh up Snakehead, course we had ladders.

An it wsn't from above the bank the angles wrong,
Put your ruler on the map like I said.

Just be thankful I don't have access to the old turntable ladder any more, I would really frighten you to death on top of that, you would be shouting huey.

Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

Did put me ruler on the map, and understand where you are coming from ... just thought that St. James's Chambers may have stretched further along than the bank if you understand me . was sorta' agreeing with you.

Huey ... not sure... long time since a bloke took me to the heights of dizziness .. .might be worth a go ... :D:D:D

Re: were is this ?
 

Surely any debate as to where this piccy was taken from can be settled by the simple process of triangulation? You don't need to be an expert in Eucidean geometry to work this one out - all you need is a printer (with enlargement), pencil, paper and protractor. Print the piccy, print an old map of the area (1909 OS should do) and then work out the angles from common points (the mid-point of the chapel/church roof in the background, the middle of ther building background, far top right)...easy.The base point is the middle of the bottom of the piccy. You should get to within 20ft, allowing for height.

Re: were is this ?
 

Already done that on the 1909 map, and got it down to between the bank and Boots Chemist on Blackburn Rd, and the elevation from a top story window.

Retlaw.

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How many refererence points did you use? (I only ask because it seems difficult for me to envisage the piccy being taken from Blackburn Road)

Re: were is this ?
 

LOL Tealeaf ... don't think you need any clever geometrical calculations to work this one out .. just the base line/imagination will do .. then work out which buildings in the area were high enough for a photographer to grab a shot... :rofl38:

Re: were is this ?
 

Err...unfortunately, the camera lens will give a distorted image (thats why I suggested a base point of the bottom middle of ther picture). And that's why I suggested at least two more reference points, A simple straight line comperator is insufficient and may well result in an incorrect reading. The more reference points, the better.

You will probably have seen various historical films on the Royal Navy. When a sextant reading is taken, then more than one is taken by various people at the same time in order to get an average reading. The same principle applies here - if you want an accurate reading, then this is the only way to do it.

Re: were is this ?
 

...and without doing the exact calculations, I make the photograph has being taken from the north-western corner of the market hall roof (but I've had a few jars now and my vision is slightly blurred)

Re: were is this ?
 

Well, tis Saturday night after all .. .. bit that way meself. Think there may be some confusion between Ian's photograph and the one Atarah gave us later. :D

Re: were is this ?
 

Your assumption is correct if you are refering to the first picture posted.
With the second picture it doesn't need Einstien or a sextant to work out where the only site it could be taken was, go and look.

Retlaw.

Re: were is this ?
 

Come on then own up , Who has been in Arden lookin at the picture ??
ian

Re: were is this ?
 

Bob Dobson and Atarah! tee hee

Re: were is this ?
 

I have too, (I'm Ians mum)

Re: were is this ?
 

Seeing the photo in the Arden has made my mind up. We are looking at Broadway in its very early days, perhaps 1934 before it was opened officially. We are seeing the culverted river passing under it. On the left of the pics is the roof of Whalley rd Methodist chapel (Kenyon St) and to the centre of the pic in the distance is the building in Dowry Str/Moore Street which started off as Pilkington's Engineering, became our first cinema and went back to become engineering. It was a tall, multi-windowed building which stood over the houses in Whalley Rd opposite the Hope & Anchor. The Odeon has not yet been built and the hoardings on the right side of Broadway are to remain there for many years.

The regulars around the bar all knew Atarah.

Re: were is this ?
 

The regulars around the bar all knew Atarah.


You are one cheeky person Mr Dobson! I nearly just choked on my coffee when I read that! Tee hee
Have also found out that Myers Stables (also undertakers) had the site where The Regal cinema was built.

Re: were is this ?
 

been in today and they said "Historians have been in lookin at that photo" !:)
i still couldnt convince mi uncle it was broadway ,
ian

Re: were is this ?
 

Here is the same picture from a Lancashire website. It is entitled 'New Road to Branch of Broadway'

Attachment 15814