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NorthStar72 31-08-2006 03:47

Being screwed by employer....
 
Can anyone help?At my current place of work (cannot say where just yet for obvious reasons) I feel that I am being unfairly singled out for some very obnoxious treatment i.e. I was given a written warning for having time off(two half shifts) after having the absence agreed by my shift supervisor and also the manager who issued the written warning.The two people aforementioned denied all knowledge of me asking them for the time off yet a fellow employee,the following day!,had six days off using the excuse that he couldn't find a babysitter and he didn't even get any come back whatsoever!This is just an example of the treatment Im receiving at the mo.also I went to work at 2pm on Monday only to be told that I was on 12hr night shift this week yet I wasnt consulted about this and also that Im on 12hr shifts for the next five weeks,which I also have not agreed to or wish to do as I have other interests outside of work!What can I do about this cos i dont want to lose my job but am finding it increasingly difficult to work there and it is also affecting my emotional state as It is beginning to really get me down and I worry that whatever I do,they will just find something else to give me another warnning anyway!Im not a lazy person and work twice as hard as other employees yet am still receiving grief no matter what I do!Please wont someone give me some advice beforte I completely lose it and crack up!!!!!!!!HELP

chav1 31-08-2006 03:54

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
sounds like you work at senator m8 , one rule for the brown nosers and another for the people that actualy do some bloody work

i think they have to give you a few months notice to any shift change

ring citizen rights they will tell you who to get in touch with , there is an organisation but i cant recall its name

sadly in the real world workmates will most likely not back you up in fear of reprocusions to themseleves and teh bosses will all stick together and it will be all their words against yours

entwisi 31-08-2006 06:30

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Firstly whilst its hard you can forget about what happens to other employees, these would have no bearing on anything that happnes to you. What you are effectively describing is constructive dismissal. i.e. they are trying to get rid of you through unfair means. You need to start diarising everything that happens at work in respect of yourself. i.e. if your shifts are changed at any point without prior agreement(as long as your contarct doesn't state that they can do this, if you don't have a copy of your contract ask for one, they have to provide it by law), if they alter what job you actually do without prior agreement etc. If you ask for any time off/etc make sure you do it in writing and ask for a signed conformation. You need to build a case of evidence before going to either higher powers or a tribunal.

Only when you(or CAB) feel you have a case should you show your hand, up to that point, grin and bear it.

However heres a second choice, you spend far too much time at work to feel so bad about it. Whilst it doesn't stop this sort of behaviour going on I would personally be looking for another job asap. When you are leaving make sure you ask to speak to one of the HR department(or just the big boss if its a small comapny) and make it clear you are leaving because of this behaviour against you. If you have a decent wedge of evidence then threaten them with a claim anyway, even if you don't persue it it could scare the hell out of them and the people responsible will be told to back off in future.

Hope some of this helps

KIPAX 31-08-2006 09:15

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
First.. excellent advice re what happeens to other people.. forget that..

Second... do they pay you? then put up with it and if you don't like it then leave.

Thats my honest opinion that you asked for....

Neil 31-08-2006 10:15

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
excellent advice re what happeens to other people.. forget that...

I don't agree with that. If you are being treated differently than others then you are being victimised which is classed as harrasment and you could bring a case against them. It is much easier to just put up with it while you find another job. After all why whould you want to work for a firm that treats you like that?

AccyJay 31-08-2006 10:18

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
First.. excellent advice re what happeens to other people.. forget that..

Second... do they pay you? then put up with it and if you don't like it then leave.

Thats my honest opinion that you asked for....

A bit harsh.

It is difficult, but you must first build a case (without your employers knowing). You haven't said whether you have a union represenative (i'm guessing that you haven't), if you have, speak to them. Have a look at the ACAS website (link below) for further information. Everything you need to know is on thier site.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=341

KIPAX 31-08-2006 11:26

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Neil.. I was trying to say that the other mans grass is always greener.. forget how others are treated because you dont know the full story.. only what you see and percieve is happening.. so better to just concentrate on your own problems.. what happens to them or how they are treated shouldn't matter.

It's like the bloke who works away happy.. happy with the wage he is getting and in general enjoys working... then he find out the next bloke gets more money and he is then unhappy and up in arms... not logical

Unions..... I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.. someone once said that unions closed down more factories than hitlers bombers did.

accymel 31-08-2006 11:51

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi
Firstly whilst its hard you can forget about what happens to other employees, these would have no bearing on anything that happnes to you. What you are effectively describing is constructive dismissal. i.e. they are trying to get rid of you through unfair means. You need to start diarising everything that happens at work in respect of yourself. i.e. if your shifts are changed at any point without prior agreement(as long as your contarct doesn't state that they can do this, if you don't have a copy of your contract ask for one, they have to provide it by law), if they alter what job you actually do without prior agreement etc. If you ask for any time off/etc make sure you do it in writing and ask for a signed conformation. You need to build a case of evidence before going to either higher powers or a tribunal.

Only when you(or CAB) feel you have a case should you show your hand, up to that point, grin and bear it.

However heres a second choice, you spend far too much time at work to feel so bad about it. Whilst it doesn't stop this sort of behaviour going on I would personally be looking for another job asap. When you are leaving make sure you ask to speak to one of the HR department(or just the big boss if its a small comapny) and make it clear you are leaving because of this behaviour against you. If you have a decent wedge of evidence then threaten them with a claim anyway, even if you don't persue it it could scare the hell out of them and the people responsible will be told to back off in future.

Hope some of this helps

Im with entwisi on this one - great advice i would give hehehehe:D Also be VERY careful about walking out of the job even if driven to it as i found once to my cost that, walking out & no other job to go to, leaves you in a bad situation as far as if you had to claim JSA or income support whilst finding another job, as without proof of what you are going through they will turn round & say that you left a job voluntarily & can have half your benefits deducted immediately & trust me you dont get much as it is but half of that is impossible to live on as i found hard way!!!

Speak to the employment adviser at the CAB who will give you all the information as to putting evidence together & procceedures & will help you out if you have a case or put you through to someone who can.

accymel 31-08-2006 11:58

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
It's like the bloke who works away happy.. happy with the wage he is getting and in general enjoys working... then he find out the next bloke gets more money and he is then unhappy and up in arms... not logical

Unions..... I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.. someone once said that unions closed down more factories than hitlers bombers did.

I dont agree only employers themselves sh*te themselves about unions but they do get negotations between employee & employer to get to a right & fair solution usually much to the employers dismay.

I hope me dad notices this one heheheheehe he's best to explain it all:D

KIPAX 31-08-2006 12:15

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accymel
I dont agree only employers themselves sh*te themselves about unions

exactly... because they dont want to end up out of business because there whole workforce goes on strike for 6 weeks losing orders and customers because so and so is a bit upset and feels badly treated. Suppose they work in a factory with hundreds of people.. what happenes if this esculates.. how are those workers wives and children gonna feel with the husbands on strike wiht no money because someone they dont even know at the other end of the factory has caused a strike..

going over the top am i? then why are employers scared of unions if it isn't because of what they do..

if your a good worker and being paid the going rate then get on with it or find another job.. dont involve the unions and the rest of the workforce.. unions thrive on trouble.. without trouble unions wouldnt exist..

send in maggie.. she will sort the unions out :)












.
PINCH OF SALT :)

entwisi 31-08-2006 12:24

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
I agree with Kipax on being happy with your lot, I'm sat here now at work, teh lad next to me lives in Manilla, Philipines, hes a good techie, pleasant and happy in his job, he earns about 1/5th what I do. Like wise the guy behind me earns ~10K more than me for doing the same job, another(a contractor) earns ~£450 a day for the same job). Whose teh happiest? I'd say Owee and myself are certainly the more cheerful in our work.

Margaret Pilkington 31-08-2006 12:56

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
I have been out of the work situation for quite a while now, but I have to agree with previous posters about building a case.......ACAS used to print some very helpful booklets and I'm sure their website will be of some positive help to you.
Keep your head down.........and I hope things work out well for you in the end.

garinda 31-08-2006 13:49

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Luckily you do have the law on your side, and your employer will need an air tight case and have followed all the procedures to the letter, before you can be dismissed. Otherwise they know you'll have a very good case to seek compensation for unfair dismissal.

Like other people have said ignore how you think your co-workers are being treated, and if you feel unhappy with your job secretly look for a better one.

Good luck.

entwisi 31-08-2006 13:56

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Why secretly? perhaps if he makes it known that he is looking for other work they will lay off thinking that they have 'won' only for the OP to continue happily in his work.

I've never hidden that fact that I was looking for other work. It can sometimes be the focus that makes an employer sit up and take note of how much you actually do. It is rare that loyalty exists in employment today, and by that I mean the employer being loyal to you just as much as the other way round. You should always look on it as a marriage of convienience, they want you and/or your skills and you want their money.

KIPAX 31-08-2006 13:56

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
Luckily you do have the law on your side, and your employer will need an air tight case and have followed all the procedures to the letter, before you can be dismissed. .


Where did getting sacked come into it? Different story if he gets sacked..

I read he was having a bit of a feel sorry day and thought he was being picked on and wanted to know what to do..... Now you have him sacked ? Poor bloke was better off before he posted :)

garinda 31-08-2006 14:00

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
Where did getting sacked come into it? Different story if he gets sacked..

I read he was having a bit of a feel sorry day and thought he was being picked on and wanted to know what to do..... Now you have him sacked ? Poor bloke was better off before he posted :)


He/she was issued with a written warning, the first start in the dismissal process.


Also, despite what Atilla the Kippax might say, if you do have a union rep do consult them.

KIPAX 31-08-2006 14:15

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
Also, despite what Atilla the Kippax might say, if you do have a union rep do consult them.

Garinda.. How it works is.. people ask for advice and we are all happy to give it.. What makes you think one person is supposed to announce he is right and everyone else is to be ignored... Offer your advice like the rest of us.

As for the personal insults/childish names.. cheers...

entwisi 31-08-2006 14:17

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Heh, now this is what being screwed by your company is really like

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...hack_sackings/

:D

AccyJay 31-08-2006 15:03

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi
Heh, now this is what being screwed by your company is really like

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...hack_sackings/

:D

Classy, The Accident Group sacked everyone via text message a coulpe of years ago, i think.

garinda 31-08-2006 15:28

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
Garinda.. How it works is.. people ask for advice and we are all happy to give it.. What makes you think one person is supposed to announce he is right and everyone else is to be ignored... Offer your advice like the rest of us.

As for the personal insults/childish names.. cheers...

Just as I gave my advice. My advice is neither right or wrong, just as everyone elses is.

It wasn't me that slagged off the unions and then said Maggie would sort it out.

Consider this your first written warning.;)

KIPAX 31-08-2006 15:31

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
and where in any of that have I unsulted or made up names about another accyweb member... yes you ahve your opinions and I ahve mine and as can be the case they differ...

however you decide to make up silly names and insult me for having my views.. whereas I have done nothing of the sort to you or anyone else on this thread..

garinda 31-08-2006 15:38

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
and where in any of that have I unsulted or made up names about another accyweb member... yes you ahve your opinions and I ahve mine and as can be the case they differ...

however you decide to make up silly names and insult me for having my views.. whereas I have done nothing of the sort to you or anyone else on this thread..

The Atilla the Kipax tag was a joke, because of your stated political right wing leanings with your dismissal of any help this member could perhaps get from his union, and your comment that Maggie would sort it out.

I forget you need a smiley to show where humour is intended.;)(Smiley.)

KIPAX 31-08-2006 15:48

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
oh right.. you where having a joke and i am the only one on accyweb who didnt get it cus there was no smiley.. *I* need a smiley to see its a joke you say.. inferring only me needs one..

well dont worry.. all your sheep will be along in a minute to say how they saw it as a joke as well.. then you will all start swapping karma with each other as virtual slap on the backs..

seen it all before ffs :(


just be nice if for once you stood up like a man gary ...

chav1 31-08-2006 17:26

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
be careful kipax the last thing yo wont is garinda giving you the sack ;)

google t bagging if your not sure why :eek:

Len 31-08-2006 18:04

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Just a thought and to bring the thread back on topic.

It may not be a case of victimization, bullying or constructive dismissal. It may well be something as simple as fear? What I mean by this is that perhaps the gaffer/Forman etc is a bit reluctant to challenge certain employees due to their attitude towards him. I have had experience of something similar to this.
Due to certain employee’s attitudes towards the gaffer. i.e. Giving lip, answering back and even, dare I say, telling one to f off. Even though it was said flippantly it must be very embarrassing for any gaffer to have been shown disrespect like that. As a result the gaffer may now tend to befriend, treat like gods the offenders in the hope that he won’t get any more agro from them (stay clear off, turn a blind eye etc).

So as you can imagine some people can break company rules i.e. time keeping, reading news papers, leaving doors open etc etc yet others are held to account for their miss deeds. Thus leaving you with the feeling that perhaps this is constructive dismissal, bullying, victimization etc etc, when at the end of the day its none of those is simply a case of, the gaffer daren’t challenge the others. It’s sad really because it does make you feel bad especially when you see others getting away with murder and your not.

Or is it paranoia? :D

LancYorkYankee 31-08-2006 18:19

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Some great advice given. I appreciate the different opinions shared. It always helps to see different views. I also agree the ":) " can do wonders to soften perceived comments!

I worked in human resources/employee relations with the Federal Gov. for many years. Got to fly around the country trying to "fix" problems. Did my share of firing but more importantly did alot of training supervisors and employees that keeping moral high was the best win-win solution.

Tried to explain that if supervisors didn't act like dictators and employees worked hard (remember these were federal employees, it was very rarely that any of them worked hard as in the real world), and followed the rules, work would go well for all concerned.
:Banane25: Sorry, it's the LancYorkYankees' afternoon coffee babble!:Banane25:

Okay, (not sure of England's rules) but: 1. Are the "other" employees different then you i.e. women, minorities, younger/older etc. Then discrimination MAY come into play; 2. If you have union:( (ewww) contract it MUST be adhered to; 3. Additionally, any other written rules and regulations must be followed; 4. BEST advice given above, document, document document.

Over here, human resources is viewed as the supervisors advocate. It was rare when any of my collegues would give a rip about an employee's concerns. Man that really used to bug me. Hence, be a bit careful.

Good Luck, Work Hard, and KEEP SMILING!!!!:D :D

Brian

grannyclaret 31-08-2006 22:46

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
I hope things come to a happy conclusion North Star,,,,,Good Luck

garinda 31-08-2006 22:51

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
oh right.. you where having a joke and i am the only one on accyweb who didnt get it cus there was no smiley.. *I* need a smiley to see its a joke you say.. inferring only me needs one..

well dont worry.. all your sheep will be along in a minute to say how they saw it as a joke as well.. then you will all start swapping karma with each other as virtual slap on the backs..

seen it all before ffs :(


just be nice if for once you stood up like a man gary ...

I'm sure the Accy Web Mafia you have paranoidly referred to before all look forward to your monthly hissy fits.:D (SMILEY.)

I'll take it as a compliment that for a change you haven't targeted a female.;)




Last comment from me in what I consider a serious thread, especially for the person concerned.

Like I said earlier good luck. Bullying or victimisation is never funny, and should always be stood up to.

LancYorkYankee 31-08-2006 23:09

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Katherine Crowley and Kathi Elster: How to Deal With a Difficult Boss - AOL Coaches

Found this article on todays AOL. Thought you might find some good info. Beats blowing up their car eh?:D It's hard to understand why there are so many "bad" bosses. I guess many of them are just on their own ego trips!

Brian

NorthStar72 01-09-2006 12:36

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
thanks for all the advice,peeps,and just to set the record straight,here's another example of what happens:I've had two injuries at work that required hospital treatment(nothing major,couple of stitches each time) and having filled in the accident report book for each occasion,thought nothing more of it until a fellow workmate also had an accident and discovered that my report sheets weren't filed with the rest and found a note to my supervisor stating that he was keeping mine in his safe away from the others.Also the time taken off for the hospital treatment was later used as 'unauthorised abscences' to give me a written warning for absenteeism (6 days since Xmas,4 of which were the days i went to hospital and then had to return the next day!).Also,I hadnt been given any verbal warnings prior to the written.I understand about the 'what happens to other employees' bit,i just wanted to ppaint the overall atmosphere and dealings at my works.By the way,recently they sacked two people who have since returned because the proper procedures weren't followed....hope this clarifies things a little.

garinda 01-09-2006 12:46

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
It sounds an awful place to work.

Since you are posting anonymously I'd name and shame the company.

Look for another employer, and again good luck.

accymel 01-09-2006 13:31

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Oh Northstar mmmmmmmmmmmm sounds familiar although unfortunately i cannot go into details for legal reasons as i have a private case thats going to court soon :eek: me versus bigwigs:eek:

If i was you i would seek legal advice as soon as poss within 3 years, unfortunately tis the only way to get employers to take their responsibility & it isn't a easy path to take & does take a year or 2 to fully sort out but if you certainly can get evidence ie medical records/hospital appnts - oh i so wish i had a union:(

Unfortunately if no one is prepared to do something to stop this then when northstar leaves someone else cops it seems that this employer thinks his staff will just put up with it & certainly if its the sort of job there is always a queue of prospective new employees to take the place then until brought to book they will continusly get way with it.

lettie 01-09-2006 16:37

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Some excellent advice here. I agree with Entwisi in that you must document everything and ask for a copy of your contract to check the finer details of shift patterns.

My brother in law endured a similar situation at work where he was literally hounded out. It took them several months to do it in which time he had an industrial accident. They managed to hound him out eventually but it cost them a lot (several thousand pounds plus private medical expenses). He has since started his own buisness and does very well. The company in question was Senator and it wouldn't surprise me if you worked there too...

cashman 01-09-2006 23:17

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
youve got some cracking advice here northstar, and documentation is the KEY to any achievement, i would also ignore completely anyone who told me i wouldn,t touch unions with a bargepole! love em or not they are the people that know all the rules inside out. even if you aint a member of one theres many will give advice. its one of the most difficult tasks to stuff an employer so you need all the help you can get. but it CAN be done if you are in the right and CAN prove it. good luck mate.

mickmc 02-09-2006 15:19

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accymel
I dont agree only employers themselves sh*te themselves about unions but they do get negotations between employee & employer to get to a right & fair solution usually much to the employers dismay.

I hope me dad notices this one heheheheehe he's best to explain it all:D

I missed this one our Mel !!! :) :) :D :D

I agree with the documenting of evidence and putting requests in writing. Also the guy who asked for time off because of babysitter problems is (like it or not) legally entitled to that time off, within reason !! - and is covered by the Employment Relations Act 1999 - link below.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/emp...page19475.html

Different rules apply to small companies but in general the employer must consult before any changes to the contract including hours and shift patterns


As the senior union rep for 14 years at what used to be one of Hyndburns biggest employers and most will have had one of our greeting cards at sometime !! - I've gotta take issue over "Unions, don't touch em with a barge pole"

In all my time there (24 yrs) we never had one strike - - never saw my position as one to cause them either - things had to be talked through and a working compromise come to ! - if you strike everybody loses - you lose wages, the Company loses sales/orders, the Company's market will move to another supplier

And, if the end comes (as it did to us) - when the American owners decide they wanted only one production site in the UK, and the UK board who were based at the other site in Bradford decided to close us - then thats when paying your Union subs can show a return.

Ok - everybody is covered by Statutory Redundancy Pay and in the majority of cases thats all they get !! - the maximum you can get for 20 years service and over is 20 x your weeks wage up to a maximum £8,700

But if you have a strong and healthy union as we did - they can negotiate a better package - we had guys/gals there that had been there since leaving school at 15 - some with 40+ years service - we negotiated a deal that paid for every year of service not just 20 - and at a premium that gave most people 2-3 weeks wages for each and every year of service, -some of those older guy's, who had given their lives to that Company walked away with over £80,000 - :eek:

Now - tell me that Unions are a total waste of time !!!

AccyJay 02-09-2006 15:41

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmc

Now - tell me that Unions are a total waste of time !!!

Most people who say that unions are a waste of time, have either never been in one or have only seen evidence of bad unions (sorry, can't think of a better way of putting this). i.e strikes. Having been a union rep in the past (5 yrs ago), i've saved numerous poeple from being dismissed. Some of those people are still with company. I don't think them or thier families think that unoins are a waste of time.

accymel 03-09-2006 15:48

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmc
I missed this one our Mel !!! :) :) :D :D

I agree with the documenting of evidence and putting requests in writing. Also the guy who asked for time off because of babysitter problems is (like it or not) legally entitled to that time off, within reason !! - and is covered by the Employment Relations Act 1999 - link below.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/emp...page19475.html

Different rules apply to small companies but in general the employer must consult before any changes to the contract including hours and shift patterns


As the senior union rep for 14 years at what used to be one of Hyndburns biggest employers and most will have had one of our greeting cards at sometime !! - I've gotta take issue over "Unions, don't touch em with a barge pole"

In all my time there (24 yrs) we never had one strike - - never saw my position as one to cause them either - things had to be talked through and a working compromise come to ! - if you strike everybody loses - you lose wages, the Company loses sales/orders, the Company's market will move to another supplier

And, if the end comes (as it did to us) - when the American owners decide they wanted only one production site in the UK, and the UK board who were based at the other site in Bradford decided to close us - then thats when paying your Union subs can show a return.

Ok - everybody is covered by Statutory Redundancy Pay and in the majority of cases thats all they get !! - the maximum you can get for 20 years service and over is 20 x your weeks wage up to a maximum £8,700

But if you have a strong and healthy union as we did - they can negotiate a better package - we had guys/gals there that had been there since leaving school at 15 - some with 40+ years service - we negotiated a deal that paid for every year of service not just 20 - and at a premium that gave most people 2-3 weeks wages for each and every year of service, -some of those older guy's, who had given their lives to that Company walked away with over £80,000 - :eek:

Now - tell me that Unions are a total waste of time !!!

Our Steven's just said how long has that taken you to do that with one finger typing ????? You must of been doing it all day ;) :D LOL

Ps ........not taking the mick or anything heheheheehe:D

cmonstanley 03-09-2006 17:05

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
unions arent a waste of time power to the people:cool:

mickmc 03-09-2006 17:05

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
LOL - Steven - but my 2 finger typing is always eloquent and gets things done - how many letters have I done for him and always a result................. LOL

chav1 03-09-2006 18:55

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
my experience of unions forced me to quit paying to them and i wouldnt bother with one again ever.

upon been called into the office i told the manager that i wanted a witness

i went off to get my witness but couldnt find my union rep anywhere

i returned to the office only to find my union rep was standing next to my manager as HIS witness

i put a complaint into teh union but was brushed off with a load of Bull Sh1t

as long as they get your money they couldnt give a toss and although they can give some good advice its nothing you cant get for free at ACAS or Citizens advice

WillowTheWhisp 05-09-2006 09:54

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
I've seen good unions and I've seen bad unions so you can't tar them all with the same brush. I've seen pig headed union leaders go for all-out strikes when it was plainly a stupid move and I've seen factories closed down and people out of work due to union action not to mention the weeks and weeks without pay before that when they were on strike and the whole family suffering. I've also seen sensible union reps negotiate on behalf of the workers and due to their specialist knowledge offer a great deal of help and support. Sometimes just the moral support of having somebody there beside you can be a huge confidence booster when you feel like you are in a no-win situation.

How come your union rep was also your managers union rep Chav? You should have been able to have someone to independantly witness the proceedings, not a case of taking sides which defeats the object surely?

I would definitely consult your union if you have one NorthStar. Like others have said it doesn't make any difference to your individual case what has happened where other people are concerned. They will only look at how you personally have been treated and assess whether that is acceptable or not. From what you've been saying it certainly doesn't sound acceptable. I once worked with a manager who was a right little Hitler and seemed to enjoy making people's lives a misery but it was the school bully mentality. He only did it with new people who didn't stand up to him. One girl who wasn't having any of it simply turned round to him and said "Oh go an boil yer 'ead" and he never said another word to her!! Not that I'm suggesting you try that. :D

Good luck.

KIPAX 05-09-2006 10:22

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp
I've seen good unions and I've seen bad unions so you can't tar them all with the same brush.

Yeagh your right and really that should be applied to just about everyhting and everyone.. gosh theres probbaly even a decent traffic warden out there:)

But....

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp
I've seen pig headed union leaders go for all-out strikes when it was plainly a stupid move and I've seen factories closed down and people out of work due to union action not to mention the weeks and weeks without pay before that when they were on strike and the whole family suffering.



I have seen more of that than anything else.. add to that the closed shop where you wernt allowed to even work somewhere unless you where in a union.. add to that the factories and thousands of men who stop work by coming out in sympathy strikes etc

all in all it leaves a bad taste in the mouth and I wasnt being sarcastic when I said maggie thatcher... she was the only person as far as I know in my lifetime to have stood up to them.. not only that.. she beat them... She is the only prime minister we have had (again in my lifetime) with balls... not like the weak so and so's we have leading us nowerdays..

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp
I've also seen sensible union reps negotiate on behalf of the workers and due to their specialist knowledge offer a great deal of help and support. Sometimes just the moral support of having somebody there beside you can be a huge confidence booster when you feel like you are in a no-win situation.



Thats fair enough and I daresay they have there day and are a help.. But I think they went a long way to ruining this country and we would have been better off without them.. so the bit of good they can do in no way makes up for the bad they have done in my opinion..



accymel 05-09-2006 11:18

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX
Thats fair enough and I daresay they have there day and are a help.. But I think they went a long way to ruining this country and we would have been better off without them.. so the bit of good they can do in no way makes up for the bad they have done in my opinion..

Mmmmm really:rolleyes: thing is with decline of unions like owt else theres always something that fills the void..........................like greedy solicitors firms:( seems the only way to stand up for employments rights these days, unfortunately they are dragged out over a long period of time till resolution even if case is staked against the employer & usually at the solicitors best interests not necessarily the claiments - they have now taken over the unions & money talks more than anything, least in majority of cases as i know with growing up with my dad being a union rep he got things resolved as quickly & fairly as possible, also the worrying thing is we all get a job at some point but how many people do actually know their employment rights & that of the employer????????

So without reliable near source advice unless cost of a sols many dont realise if there are problems that could of been highlighted till it becomes serious & some employers abuse that, personally thats where unions were good for. As such in life that some people get an inch & pull it a mile.

chav1 06-09-2006 08:47

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp
How come your union rep was also your managers union rep Chav? You should have been able to have someone to independantly witness the proceedings, not a case of taking sides which defeats the object surely?.

he wasnt his union rep he was just there as his witness and from the amount of time they spent with each other chatting all the time also his friend.

when meetings were held teh union reps from other departments would ask questions and be totaly ignored , union people who who wanted to hand out membership forms were not allowed on teh property and had to stand outside on teh pavement and catch people as they left the carpark

although laws were brought in where companies can no longer refuse to recognise unions they still largely go ignored

teachers unions , doctors unions etc seem to get noticed but unions in factories etc arnt worth crap . if a company wants you gone they will sack you eventualy and management will stick like glue against you ive seen a few cases where people have been rail roaded out of a job and any that witness aginst the company receive a very hard time ( cleverly within the emplotee handbook) and either eventualy dismissed or never promoted or even demoted

LancYorkYankee 07-09-2006 17:00

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
I have an admitted bias against Unions over here in the states. They can get really viscious (not a much any more). Remember as a kid my dad having to work through a large telephone company strike. He wasn't any kind of big wig just a first level supervisor.

Guys who crossed the picket lines were physically harmed, rocks thrown at them and their cars, sand put in gas tanks, ugly crank calls made, etc. I remember specifically answering the phone as a little kid and having a guy on the other end say "your daddy's dead if he keeps crossing the line!" My dad never missed a day (actually in 45 years) cause of it but we kids had a scary time seeing him go each day.

It was the last time we kids were allowed to answer the phone during that long strike.

Like all things Unions started with such noble and righteous reasons. As we know the workplaces in the late 1800's early 1900's were atrocious. Unfortunately, like most great ideas, power and money destroys and corrupts. Then the balance shifts and we're all back at square one. It's a cryin' shame (IMHO of course).

Brian

LancYorkYankee 07-09-2006 17:04

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Hey NorthStar, haven't heard from you for awhile. How are things going? Any progress, changes, further thoughts? I hope things are well and some of the advice submitted has been a help!

Brian

garinda 07-09-2006 23:12

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Yes its awful when someone posts they have a problem then we don't get an update.

Like Brian, I'm sure we all hope things have improved.

WillowTheWhisp 16-09-2006 12:57

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Anything happened since we've been away?

Ianto.W. 16-09-2006 22:57

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp
Anything happened since we've been away?

:D :D :D Yes there jolly well is I had 90 posts on that temporary
site why can't they be carried forward? another thing that award thread
organanised by the queen bee, is a fix, ill bet she wins summat! Grumpy Ian. :D :D :D .

WillowTheWhisp 16-09-2006 23:21

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Are you trying to live up to your new name? :D

Ianto.W. 17-09-2006 13:22

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
:D :D
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp
Are you trying to live up to your new name? :D

:drink: No I have always been a little mad and Grumpy, that
burk that gave me lousy brownie points, May all your troubles be financial, I don't give a monkeys about the childish system! Now if you don't mind i'm off for a :drink: :D :D :D

NorthStar72 17-09-2006 17:14

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
hi everyone.Sorry I haven't been on for a while but I have a slipped disc in my neck at the mo,painful!!!Anyway,the situation at work hasn't changed any and just to add insult to injury (no [pun intended,lol!) I've been off work for two weeks now with my neck and on pay day (friday just gone(monthly)) I walked down to the bank in Accy,which was very painful but what can you do?,only to find that my wages hadn't been put in the bank!As a result of this,I rang a couple of friends from work to see if they had been paid and found out that everyone else had!
I rang the office to try and find out what happened only to be told that the accountant/director was in a meeting and he would get get back to me later.I'm still waiting for him to get back to me!!!well,I rang back on Sat. morning but the only person in the offices was the chief maintainence man who took my number to pass it on to the gaffer so he could ring me and let me know what was going on......still waiting,again!!!!The upshot of it all is that I now have no money,food,I've only just moved house and am quicvkly running out of electricity,ideas and patience!!!I'll keep you updated a bit more regularly,ok peeps but I gotta go now as my old man is knocking at the front door!!!Again,thanks to everyone who's helped so far.Speak soon . xxx

glasgow guy 17-09-2006 17:29

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
who is it you work for...you gotta tell us...

WillowTheWhisp 17-09-2006 19:15

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
If you are off ill and have sent in the required documents they have no right to withhold your money. That's awful.

jelly baby 03-10-2006 16:43

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
This is a truly dreadful situation to be in. Have you been to the CAB yet, and are you keeping a diary as advised? Is there anyone at work who is sympathetic and could verify what is going on? Is this a large company? If so is it not possible to go to a director or someone higher up the management ladder? Anyway, I hope it all works out for you soon.
JB

entwisi 03-10-2006 19:09

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Withholding wages is ilegal, this alone would be enough to claim constructive dismissal. Get down to CAB straight away.

On teh down side it does look like you will not be working there much longer, you may as well start looking for work.

SPUGGIE J 03-10-2006 22:35

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi
Withholding wages is ilegal, this alone would be enough to claim constructive dismissal. Get down to CAB straight away.

On teh down side it does look like you will not be working there much longer, you may as well start looking for work.


A wait of at least 3 weeks to get an appointment at CAB as mi mother found out. :(

Madhatter 04-10-2006 12:26

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
What ever you do do not say stick your job or in anyway give any impression that you are leaving of your own accord. If they sack you you'll need the notes of all you've told us, write it up and send it to adjudication, there will be enough there to get you your money. If you walk out you've made yourself voluntarily unemployed and won't get full money no matter what.

accymel 04-10-2006 15:52

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
If failing at CAB see a local reputable solicitor & do it on a no win no fee basis for contructive dismissal:rolleyes: & follow advice given in your favour.

jelly baby 24-10-2006 16:19

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Hi there Northstar, can you give us an update on this situation yet?
Hope you can tell us it's all now resolved!!!
JB

NorthStar72 09-09-2014 08:50

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
well everyone,its been a very long time but I guess I should close this thread with an update.I did eventually leave the company and moved on.
Since then,things have gone from strength to strength.I have a supervisory job now in a company that is (mostly,lol)a pleasure to work for.Im also a homeowner,own car etc and enjoy a peaceful existence,ha ha.....
Im so glad to see the back of that company and that it went out of business shortly after I left.The most satisfying aspect is that the supervisor that caused me so much trouble recently came to the company I work for as an agency worker,which meant that I was HIS supervisor but I was the bigger man and didnt mention the past and treat him like everyone else!!!
Karma Always gets them in the end.......

Michael1954 10-09-2014 00:40

Re: Being screwed by employer....
 
Thanks for the update. We look forward to your next report in 2022.


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