Weddings /'Over the brush'
 

I just love weddings, went to one yesterday, cried myself silly as the lovely bride walked down the aisle and said her vows at the alter.

Glad to see that the Accy Observer is now giving space to local weddings again, seemed to be a bit thin on the ground for a long while, and I love to read them.

Have you noticed how times have changed though ? At the end of each report, most end with Mr & Mrs Bloggs 'will continue to live at Somewhere Avenue' The bride's son, who acted as page boy, was dressed in blah, blah.

Would have loved to see my Grandma's face reading these reports. Not meant to be a moralistic thread in any way whatsoever, just how times have changed.

By the way, seems 'over the brush' meaning to cohabit without being legally married, originated from an expression 'over the broomstick', from makeshift marriages performed by couples jumping over a broomstick. :D :D :D

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Just out of interest.. the wedding wasnt Lindsay & Simons was it?

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Quote:

By the way, seems 'over the brush' meaning to cohabit without being legally married, originated from an expression 'over the broomstick', from makeshift marriages performed by couples jumping over a broomstick.

I believe that “Jump The Broomstick” was a tradition of the Negro slaves in the West Indies and America because being slaves they had no rights at all so couldn’t get married in the same way that the plantation and slave owners could. So when a couple of slaves wanted to get ‘married’ they had a ceremony that included jumping over a broomstick that was sometimes placed at the threshold of the room that they would live in.

If memory serves me well this ceremony was demonstrated in the excellent TV programme Roots.

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It seems to be very rare, these days, for the bride and groom not to live together before the wedding. It also seems rare for couples to delay having children until after the ceremony. I work with a girl who is desperately "trying for a baby" (I love that phrase, it conjours up such wonderful images ;) ). She's been living with her partner for 6 months. Wedding? Ooh, no, she can't afford to get married yet. :confused: I don't understand this way of thinking. It's not a question of morals but one of commitment. "We don't need a piece of paper" seems to me to be another way of saying, "We don't want to be, legally, tied down".

It used to be something of a disgrace to live "over the brush" and those who did, generally, kept it quiet. The "shotgun" wedding was quite common too. If a girl became pregnant her boyfriend rarely had any option - he had to marry her before the child was born otherwise that child was stigmatised, not that I would like to see a return to that attitude.

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I was one of those with a 'shotgun' wedding even in 1964 .. just about made it, but didn't have to. My Mum and Dad said would support me if I decided against it.. but I didn't. Even though I am divorced, was married for 24 years, so didn't do too badly.

Lots of my friends and associates live together now rather than marry, which is considered OK by today's standards and yes, that's fine. I hate the word 'partner' though.

Don't think I would have ever done it, (never say never though, eh ?:rolleyes: ) but not from a moralistic point of view, just think what's the point ? Might as well be married. Good to still have your space and not have the bother of pandering to another person's needs, like the cooking, washing, worry of heavier bills, etc. Stay with your Mum and Dad, and still see your girl/boy-friend.

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:D :D :D Your begining to bring tears to my eyes luv,our generation had more respect for common values not common law wives, if there good
enough to live with, have children with, their goog enough to wed.
Remember that one "and the happy couple honeymooned on the west coast" even good olb Blackpool were posh then. Happy days. :D :D :D

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For once, Ian, have to search my inner thoughts and try desperately not to 'a**hole' by agreeing with ya' :rolleyes:

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Well I married Ginger when I was 16 years young :D He was a ow'd ****** ( 19 years old ) :eek:

A hell of a lot of people laughed when we told them, and a hell of alot of people said " haha yeah see ya in 6 month for the divorce party ".:rolleyes:

That was 10 years ago on the 26th October.

Not saying that married life has been a walk in the park, because like any marriage whether you're 16 years old or 96 years old, marriage has to be worked at........... and it's whether you can work through it that counts.

At a young age we have had to come through difficult times!! BUT we have out done the difficult times with the BLOODY good times and good laugh's we have had..............

Hopefully I will be posting on here in another 10 years telling the same story :)

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:D :D :D
I don't know how I kept a straight face writing that Kate, but rights-right
poor kid's dont even know which one's dad, my grand kid's dont, thirteen
of them nine diferent fathers, not my idea of doing right.
Tell you what it's good crack this column, I try and keep out of trouble.:D :D :D .Chin Chin.

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:D :D :D I'd like to know you get divorced from over the brush, do you have to get a certificate off the mayor of Barnoldswick, my mum said that's were you whent to live over the brush. :D :D :D

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over the brush? is it not correct that a couple who are over the brush get 2 single old age pensions? is it not correct that a married couple get less? if these facts are correct i rest my case.;)

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That needs looking into :mad:

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I don't think they do Cash. They have to declare it if they are 'partners' and then receive the same pension as a married couple..........or so I'm told! (not quite old enough for a pension yet).

How same sex couples fare, I know not!

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not sure junetta? i am sure though theres a lot of things should be declared,but aren,t.;)

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well im all for marriage done it twice, 1st was 13 yrs lived with both my hubbys before tyin the knot but must admit i get comfort from that bit of paper sayin we,re legal , im not against livin together and would never push my kids into marriage infact would recommend they live together for a yr or two but i do personally think that if you comfortable with each other then go for it . marriage is so easy to get into but a damn sight harder to get out of .

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Just wondered cherokee if 'partnerships' are easier to get out of then ?

Genuine question, you understand, got out of a marriage, so no experience on t'other.:confused:

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emotionally i would say no they re not, living together/married still same feelings but in my opinion its harder to settle things when you,ve been married because everything becomes ours as opposed to yours and mine .. thats just my opinion katex others might think differently

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Think that is what I was trying to prompt you to say. The emotional bit isn't any easier then? and,in the equation of things, can do the same damage as the materialistic side ?

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think most definately katex did live with someone when i was young and when we separated it hurt just as much as when my marriage broke down but didnt have the hassle of sortin materialistic things out as it was either mine or his and was quite cut and dry

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:D :D Let me know if you find out anything, I mighnt take up number two's offer of a quickie 'divorce' I mean, could qualify for pension credit to just think another two pints a week. ;) :D :D :D

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Whether you have your own pension or not depends on whether you have opted into the system. If you're a married woman who hasn't worked since marriage, or opted for the "married woman's stamp", then you will have little or no State pension. If, however, you have worked throughout your married life, you will get your own pension in your own right.

I've been married twice and have now lived "over the brush" for the last six years. I think a lot depends on whether you want/intend to have children and if you do, marriage is a safer bet from all points of view. At my age, it doesn't occur! I'm not keen on the word "partner" but how else do you describe your "other half" if you aren't married? No great moral thoughts about it, but there is a big difference between couples who stay together for years albeit unmarried, and those who go from one live-in relationship to another, often collecting a child per relationship along the way.

Working in divorce gives you a different slant as well - believe me!

As for not being able to afford to get married, what means more - the relationship or the big wedding? If the latter, you're on a sticky wicket to start with.

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I think when people say that they can't afford to get married, it's because they want a big wedding. Most people think this way, because they only intend to get married once, & therefore, want the day to be extra special & memorable. It's a day to be celebrated by all their family & friends.

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I've been married twice. (My first husband died.) Both weddings were quite 'big' in terms of being dressed up and having the whole church thung with organ and bridesmaids etc. For the first one we even had a pony and trap to bring me to the church but neither event really broke the bank because most of it was done by friends - even the dresses and I think my girls looked a treat when I married Busman.

You can still have a memorable day without spending a fortune on it although we did have a few hairy moments when we didn't think we had an organist. :D

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Fair play to you. Maybe it's just a popular misconception that big weddings = big budget.

You should start your own business - Cheap but Cheerful weddings. lol

:)

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i'm quoting what i have been told, a lady near us and her partner, have SEPARATE houses, say that in this instance their 2 pensions equate to more than a married pension. i don't honestly know,but i sure as hell intend to find out in the not to distant future.;)

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Your right right Willow jumping over the broom ( Living over the brush ) was originally a Pagan custom.
There was no chance of me and Mick living over the brush in the early 70s. I was 16 and he was 18. We were given just six months before we split up I think that 33yrs later we have proved them all wrong.

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Well i'm getting married to reidy next year. We have been together for five years and got 1 child. Only just decided that marriage is the next step.

We have been booking everything now because august bank holiday is a difficult time and i can't believe the amount it is costing. I could really do with another five years to save up for it but then if that was the case, noone would ever get married.

By the way I had my child out of wedlock and have been living with my partner, and am still getting married in my catholic church. I do go to church at the weekend but times have moved on and changed from what they used to be. My husband to be is not even baptised a catholic and doesn't need to be.

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Whilst staying with my friends on holiday recently, they were sorting out their state pensions and did happen to throw in that if you were not married, then your pension could not be left to ' a partner' and joked that is why my friend hurriedly married her 'ex' again. If true, better start thinking about this Pendy ..:D

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I married at 19....The wedding was done on a shoe string......seventeen and sixpence for the licence.....two pounds ten shillings for the taxi to take the whole of the wedding party up to the Haslingden Register Office......Bride Groom and two witnesses. My wedding outfit came to the grand total of twelve pounds.......someone gave us a bottle of bubbly which was left over from their daughters wedding....someone else gave us a tier from a wedding cake.......we didn't have a reception and our honeymoon was a daytrip to Blackpool...with chips walking along the sea front. My father said he would give the whole thing six months! 25 years later he handed me some Hong Kong Dollars and a Silver Tea Service and congratulated me 'been a bloody long six months Dad' I told him....he grinned. Last Tuesday me and the old feller clocked up 40 years married. So it can't have been bad luck to see the bride before we got maried....or can it?

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If we search our hearts, think we all are after a long and happy marriage Margaret ..... sigh .. x

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awwww congratulations margaret. I hope i will be married for a long long time too

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nice one margaret, makes a cynical old get happy that does.;)

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Anyone who fancies a good read should look at Marg's wonderful journal, which has the whole story of her courtship, but have your hankies ready.;)

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Why does the Accy observer not report on Muslim/Hindu weddings? Any ideas, anyone.

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Well I don't know for definite but this might have something to do with it.

The 'reports' in the paper are actually filed by the bride and groom just before the wedding. The photographer e.g. Reg at Garth Dawson handed us a form which we filled in and handed back to him - he then took the pictures and decided which one to submit to the local paper and they took the information from the form.

(I was actually quite annoyed because one of the questions on the form is about the bride's dress, which of course, I didn't want Chris to know about, so I didn't fill that question in. When the piece was printed they had obviously looked at the photo and made a guess about the dress saying it had a purple front panel when in fact my wedding dress was purple and I had a white coat covering it.)

Anyway, I digress - it is possible that muslim weddings are not reported because they do not use the regular photographers and so do not get the forms and therefore don't get printed.

Hope that helps a bit!

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I have never seen a Hindu or Sikh in Accy. Strange and its the same in Rochdale.

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I used to love watching "Charlie Williams" on the comedians when he stated that the initials O.H.M.S. on official letters stood for "Only Hindu's, Muslims and Sikh's.

Oh dear I will probably now have the politiclly correct police inspectors at the door whithin hours. Never mind, stay happy as always, Your's Taddy.:):):)

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Katex's thread has been running for nine years, but it is the first time I've seen it.. It must surely be one of the most long-running, even though it was dormant for so long. How did 'Bolton in Ossy' come across it ? I shall message Katex to express my pleasure

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I too have only just seen this tread. Re pensions..... Being married or not has no baring on whether you get a full pension. It is whether you have enough National Insurance contributions. I have a full pension in my own right as I always paid a 'full' stamp. Many married women opted to pay what years ago was a 4p stamp then it went up to 6p. This only covered statutory sick pay but did not allow them to claim dole and did not contribute towards their pension. When actual stamps were done away with and contributions were a percentage of earnings married women could still opt to pay a lower rate which again affected their pension. I worked 20 years part time but still paid the full rate ensuring a full pension at 60yrs. The irony is that when the new pensions come into effect I along with others my age will not get the £140 or whatever the figure is so it seems I wasted my time paying the top rate after all.

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Are you sure about the seventeen and sixpence Marge ? I got married eight years before you and I could have sworn my missus only cost me Seven and sixpence, unless inflation went through the roof in eight years that is. :confused::confused: Yours taddy

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Yes....I am sure that himself got half a crown change......because he often remarked that he thought it was good value for money.
Heck my parents got married at the end of the war and they paid ten bob......I know this because my dad borrowed the money off my Mum and didn't pay it back until my sister got married in 1985(he had to get a special red ten bob note to give her the money back) it was the talk of the wedding reception.

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1958, and I am sure it cost 7 shillings & 6 pence.

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On that day I was not in charge of the money....he was. He told me he paid 17 shillings and sixpence.....got change from a pound.
I did not see the transaction. Don't tell me our marriage of nearly fifty years has been based on lies and that he pocketed ten bob for beer money!
Anyway, we aren't living over the brush:)

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7/6d it was - hence the bingo caller's "£Was she worth it?" when No 76 drawn.

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Yes, it might have been that price once upon a day.
It isn't that now and according to himself it wasn't that when we got hitched.
I should've got a receipt......then at least I could have got the money back.:)

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It is somewhere in the region of £70 to get hitched in a Register Office now......some charge even more than that.

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I was mugged then back in 91! Cost me 75 Quid! Shocking & I'm still paying now! :eek: :D

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It was seven shillings and sixpence for a dog licence(it had been five bob at one time).....puts the price of a marriage licence in the shade......seven and six for a wedding...seven and six to keep a hound!

looking back it might have been less trouble to get a dog(?)

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Yes but it's easier to train a man than a dog, Margaret!

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No.....I don't think so...unless of course you want to train it to fit a plug or change a tap washer.
I have been trying to train mine for nearly half a century......and I still haven't got it quite right.
Just when I think he has 'got it'...he brings me BEEF suet when I asked for the vegetable kind.......and what is more...clearly told him NOt to get BEEF suet!

I know you think I am being too hard on him.....but he is still here and certainly doesn't look oined(Mick will verify this...I hope).

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I believe in law, the vender, (Vicar in this case), does not have to refund the original purchase price if the goods have been used, ;););).

Your's, (with tongue in cheek), Taddy.

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It was a registrar...does that still count? :)
Anyway, you couldn't get much for seventeen and six today!
All experience has to be paid for doesn't it?

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Sorry Marge, I meant to post that I liked your comment, what did I do wrong?

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Nothing at all taddy.......your 'like' has been registered.
And your post made me chuckle.

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It would have been less trouble getting a dog. Max obeys me.

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It’s so long since that I can’t remember what ours cost. I would have been happy with the Registry Office (less fuss) but we got married in a church to please my mum. His nibs hadn’t been christened and as he didn’t want anything to go wrong on the day – like the church roof falling in or a last minute hitch - he asked to be ‘done’ even though it wasn’t really necessary. At the vicar’s suggestion I was his godmother so it was that he was born in Church (as in the town) and married his godmother!

Hasn’t done a thing for him….

By the way, our honeymoon was in Morecambe and we went there by bus.

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I felt very sorry for him on THE day as he was shaking and pale and I thought he was suffering from nerves, it wasn’t until later that I found out he was pale and shaking because he had a massive hangover from his bachelor ‘do’ the night before. (He's had plenty of those since - hangovers that is, not bachelor do's).

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Himself has asked me many times over the years, to get married in church...the big flash do that we didn't have at the time.
Each time I have refused. I have told him it just isn't my thing.....I never wanted the big event, the fancy meringue frock and flowers.....I just wanted to get hitched to my man.

A big flash do doesn't ensure that you stay together, or that you will be happier....and I have always been able to think of so many thing that I could do with the money it would cost....so not really a romantic...but a realist.
If we both survive(I take nothing for granted) until October next year we will have been married for half a century.

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My hubby and I were married in a chapel attached to a nice restaurant. We didn't want a religious ceremony, but I did want some bells and whistles. An acquaintance (who claimed to be a minister of sorts) agreed to marry us incorporating our own philosophy and vows. To my consternation he showed up on the day wearing a weird homespun floor length white robe - very quasi-Christian and hippi-dippi. He also took it upon himself to recite one of his awful poems. Two years later I noticed that my wallet sized certificate to prove that I was married hadn't arrived. I contacted the authorities only to discover that I'd been living o'er the brush for those two years - the beggar hadn't bothered to register our marriage! It took a visit to a notary public and several hoops jumped through before I could rectify the situation :)

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That made me chuckle.....but I am sure it wasn't exactly what you needed.......especially for the legal bits.
I think our nuptials took something like five minutes to perform.....there was no music, no pleasant surroundings.....the place was old and quite dark looking(although the fact that it was October and it was pouring with rain might have had something to do with that)....so it didn't seem the most auspicious start.
But heck I wouldn't want to be going through all the organising of a wedding today.
Not that I couldn't do it. I just don't want to.

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As you said Margaret all you wanted was to marry your man. The excuse these days of not being able to afford a wedding obviously means they cannot afford the 'do' and all the trimmings. No reason why they cant do what you did and just have a registry office wedding. Seems to me now folk think the bigger the better but it does not make a better marriage just means a bigger waste of money when they split up. Not as much staying power these days.

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I sincerely hope you reach your Golden Wedding Margaret. It is an achievement. I remember when my parents had theirs my dad said ' 50 years, bloody train robbers only geet 30yrs and they got some off for good behaviour.' They enjoyed their Diamond Wedding too . Golden Weddings were rare years ago but in recent years there have been many but with couples splitting up nowadays they will be come a rarity again before long.

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Yes, you are right.....and many of those 'splitters' are silver splitters

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I would have loved to have been at your wedding, Turtle, definitely different from the norm to say the least.