Air Rifles!
 

Back in the 70's the law's on owning and using air weapons was very lax - these days the law has been tightened up massively and carrying one without clear permission to use it in a safe place can lead to fines. Using one in a public place can lead to prison, using one in a garden can also lead to fines/prison - not so in the care free 70's!

I had a few .77 pistols and a Webley .22 rifle - anyone else had any air weapons? :rolleyes:

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Yawn...you again.
Okay I did not have a Air Weapon, but I was nearly blinded in by one in my Right Eye back in the late 70's, another centimetre and I would look like Long John Silver, jim lad.
So would you like to explain why you have a issues with the law these days?:rolleyes:

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Yawn! Why you bother replying then? :confused: :rolleyes:
A lot of people have stories of that kind of thing you were lucky!
I'm just commenting how things have changed - from being able to walk in a public place with one uncovered - to now the following...


Offence Penalties: Statute Law

The Penalties for breaking current UK firearms laws with Airguns are as follows:-
Carrying a loaded Air-weapon in a public place 6 months imprisonment and / or £5,000 fine.
Trespassing with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
Trespassing on private land with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
Possessing or using an air weapon if sentenced to 3 months or more in custody 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
In addition if original sentence up to 3 years 5 year ban on use of firearms.
Or if for 3 years or more Life ban on use of firearms.
Killing or injuring any bird or protected animal unless authorised £5,000 fine.
Firing an air weapon within 15m / 50ft of a public highway £1,000 fine.
Selling or hiring air weapon or ammunition to person under 18 6 months imprisonment and / or £5,000 fine.
Making a gift of air weapon or ammunition to person under 14 £1,000 fine.
Having air weapon or ammunition with intent to damage property 10 years imprisonment.
Having air weapon with intent to endanger life Life imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Using air weapon to resist or prevent arrest Life imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Threatening others with an air weapon (even if unloaded) to cause them to fear unlawful violence 10 years imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Not forgetting the chance of being shot and killed by the police should you not obey instructions when challenged by them, they cannot tell if you have just an airgun or a more lethal firearm so will treat all arms as lethal and respond accordingly.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

My dad was shot and blinded in one eye when he was in his early teens. I have no interest in air guns or rifles.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

And there's good reason why you cannot walk in public with one. Good .
But due to your warped view on the world we are all wrong but your right:rolleyes:

Re: Air Rifles!
 

So let me get this right.... You miss being able to carry a Air Weapon in public, loaded or otherwise. You would like to be able to grow your own cannabis and the goverment is out to get us, anyone who challenges you is part of the 'accyweb maffya'.

If you ask me, or any right thinking person, it looks like successive Goverments have made the right decisions.
If you wish to carry a gun in public, why don't you move to the USA on of he southern states would be best.:rolleyes:

Re: Air Rifles!
 

The laws have been tightened up because of planks like you,who have a total disregard for gun safety.Also todays air weapons are considerably more powerful and therefore more deadly than the" carefree 70's" models many of them being able to attain over the 12ftlb limit , which then makes them subject to firearms certification.One last point guns are not toys and should only be used by responsible adults/people so that counts you out :rolleyes:;)

Re: Air Rifles!
 

You can write my speeches for me Dave, can't fault anything you've said there mate

God no,

Don't you dare change your scripts, you're simplistic views and natural typo's are what make you so popular.

Stick to what you think you know.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

as was my cousin when her so called friend was shooting one

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Okay then just for you Less:D

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And there was me thinking it was because of my rational thinking and nous Less:D

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You have no idea if he has total disregard for gun safety from what he has said.

That is utter rubbish.
Air weapons are no more powerful now than when I had my first one at 15 ish.
They may or may not be more accurate now, that depends on how good a shot you are as pre-charged tend to require less skill to shoot with good repeatability.

The legal limit for air weapons has been 6 ft/lbs for pistols and 12 ft/lbs for air rifles since at least 1969 without a firearms certificate as you state. Why you mention many of them require a firearm certificate I dont know as that applies to other rifles, shotguns, hand guns etc

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Neil, you can have an air rifle spec'd well over 12 ft/lbs, in fact if you're doing vermin control thats what you need to do the job cleanly. However you do need an FAC to have one.
No air weapon/firearm should ever be carried round without being in a secure carry case- its not the accuracy, it's not the power, its the fact that even a low powered air weapon discharged close to someone can do serious damage- see the above posts. Whether the discharge is accidental or intentional the damage is the same. Nor should any weapon ever have any load in it unless it's in controlled use-then it can't go off, even accidentally.

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Did it hit the parrot? :D

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Neil, you had a gun at 15. What did you use it for?

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I have two old air rifles, one is a 1937 BSA copy of the Lincoln Jefferies in .177 the other is a Webly & Scott, with interchangable .177 & .22, I've fired them many times over a Chronoscope, with different pellet weights, & neither of them is even 6 ftlbs.

Retlaw

Re: Air Rifles!
 

I didnt say many of them require a firearms cert , i said many modern air weapons are able to attain over the 12ftlb limit therefore making them subject to a firearms cert.Also modern air weapons can be more powerful than their older counterparts , due to better technology ie more air weapons using gas spring/rams. The advantages of the gas spring include the facility to keep the rifle cocked and ready to fire for long periods of time without harming the mechanism. Also, since there is no spring (and therefore a reduction in moving mass during firing) there is less although some say slightly sharper recoil. There is also an elimination of the associated problems of long-term spring fatigue and a faster "lock time" (the time between pulling the trigger and the pellet being discharged). The improvement in lock time makes for better accuracy since there is less time for the gun to move off target. Finally, gas springs are practically maintenance free and last longer than conventional metal springs. They can be tweaked or tuned, to up their power if you know whats what.Older or conventional spring powered air weapons have a practical upper limit of 1250 ft/s (380 m/s) for .177 cal (4.5 mm) pellets. Higher velocities cause unstable pellet flight and loss of accuracy. This is due to the shock wave generated as the super sonic pellet contacts the air. Shortly after leaving the barrel, the pellet falls below the speed of sound and the shock wave overtakes the pellet, causing it to tumble. And as for his disregard for gun safety any post with the words carefree and weapons in it makes me worry sorry.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

.177 pellets could not be driven down a barrel at those speeds, the contact between the pellet, and the rifling lands is so small an area, that the pellet would strip the rifling, you would need a completely different pellet profile, and rifleing twist in an air rifle to attains those speeds, and maintain any reasonable accuracy.
Properly profiled bullets with a ballistic co-efficiency below .4, can be driven a speeds in excess of 3000 ft per sec, in a 1/10 twist, and still be acurate at well over 1200 yards, even after they've gone sub sonic
Retlaw

Re: Air Rifles!
 

It wasn't me who first said "Accyweb Mafia" it was a poster called Tommiasfc and then Mr D who pointed out that Garinda and some others were slagging him off without knowing who he was - this was on the "illegal drugs" thread!

Back in 75 when I had a .22 I never even thought about the law and the law never even paid us any attention, even though I used to use it in public places with other members of the public around! I am not making any big statement about the law being wrong these days! What I am saying is that back then the law didn't give a damn about air guns (unless of course someone went into Woolworths with one) but generally it wasn't against the law to use one in your back yard! Going out with an airgun was a pass time on parr with having a kick around with a football!

Re: Air Rifles!
 

I had one when I was 15, we used to try to shoot rats, tin cans and targets and so on.

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I was going to write a long rebuttal, but I cannot be bothered.

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I dont really understand how a much softer lead pellet would strip the rifling from the barrel , most shooters of air weapons find a 800–900 ft/s (240–270 m/s) range offers an ideal balance between power and pellet stability. The 1250ft/s stated is an upper limit where really is accuracy is greatly depleted so it is not practical.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Paper and field targets (metal targets that fall down when you hit a circle on them). I was a member of a club for a while.

Like any weapon, an air rifle has to be handled responsibly, the laws are in place not so much as to restrict their use, more to keep the public safe.
A responsible user doesn't need to carry a loaded air rifle in public only an idiot would want to do such a thing.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

There is nothing to Rebut!!! (except if you want to be argumentative!?) Fact is in the 70's the Police didn't give a jott about air rifles unless there was an obvious incident with one, like a deliberate wounding with one! But if you were walking round a football pitch shooting tin cans they would not intervene! These days you'd proably get a rapid response arms unit on the scene within 10 mins!:jimbo:

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Had pistols & rifles in the past.

I can understand the laws to a point (Like Less says), but Im sure I could go and buy a black widow catapult some metal ball bearings and cause more damage/harm with one of these.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Its becase of the pellet profile, and the fact that it is soft lead, is the reason it will strip & not grip the rifleing, The fastest speed I have ever driven a hard lead .303 bullet was 1600 ft p sec, even though they had the same profile as a jacketed bullet, they would strip the bore, yet the same bullets resized to .308 fired in a 7.62, attained a speed of over 1800 ft p sec, same bullet weight & powder charge, interior balistics experiments with different lead hardnesses, shows that soft lead pellets or bullets, in .177 or .22, will not perform at the speed you quoted.
Retlaw.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Well over the years there have been more and more idiots using them for crime which I don't think happned as much in the 70's. Also I think they are more powerful these days than they were then.

The issue is in the 70's you could carry one in a park and shoot it and not get pulled over by the Police also you could shoot them in a small garden or yard - today the law says you can't shoot one unless you are 100metres away from a publc place and have permission in writing to shoot it at that place; unless you own the property!

About 5 years ago some idiot was shooting one at a children's playground from a block of flats over a period of time and the Police couldn't detect where it was coming from - it's obvious this kind of behaviour is what has tightened up the laws!

Re: Air Rifles!
 

My daughter's friend lost an eye when she was in her early teens because of someone firing an air rifle.
Kestrelx the more I hear from you the more concerned I become.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Actually, Anne, I don't think there's much wrong with Post 29. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I don't think Kestrel is suggesting the law is too strict.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

I know someone who lost an eye playing squash.

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No probably about it, the bottom line being why would you want to walk around a football field shooting at tin cans, when it's been highlighted what happens so many times, if you do you must have some sort of a death wish

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You've got the wrong end of the stick dear! What are you talking about I am just pointing out the fact that in the 70's there were no tough laws enforced on air guns! What do you think I'm advocating; we should all be able to walk round with air guns! THEN READ AGAIN YOU GOT IT WRONG!

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Err hello Bozo ;) - I am talking about the 70's not now, as a mere nod to nostalgia - you ought to have your glasses checked and re-read what I have said! :rolleyes:

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It's just come to mind former PM Gordon Brown lost an eye playing Rugby!

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Umbrellas can be lethal weapons too :)

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Just to start off with I would appreciate you not calling me dear, I don't like being patronised.
I don't think you are advocating that we should all be walking about with guns but I find it very strange and somewhat concerning that you should look back with nostalgia to a time when you were able to walk around with a weapon which has the potential to cause harm, and unlike umbrellas and squash rackets is made for no other purpose than to cause harm, and I find it odd that you feel sufficiently nostalgic about it that you choose to start a thread about it. Combined with some of your other posts which have varied between a bigoted attitude, dummy spitting and downright name calling I do wonder about your attitude in general and what your motives might be.
I've decided that I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts because they all go round in circles as you try to gain the upper ground, and I think you may have a hidden agenda.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Don't bother about it Anne, If I wanted to be as nostalgic as him, I could go back to the 1930's before the Firearms Act, lots of people had some sort of firearm in them days, and thought nowt about it, a lot of them were souveniers from ww1, when the Firearms act came in hundred of firearms were got rid of, canals, lakes, deep wells, etc.
He's just a wind up merchant.
Retlaw.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Good I hope you don't reply to any of my posts, you are totally paranoid!

I am simply discussing this as a historical fact - how the law has changed so much! I don't need over sensitive people like you posting in response to this! It's quite obvious you are a social worker by your attitude!

Fact is back in the 70's airguns were available by mail order from catalogues such as Littlewoods and the like and many people who went angling also had an airgun! You are just being so over sensitive and it's probaly the likes of you that have made this country so politically correct, banning things like playing conkers and other things that kids used to do - now have been banned by health and safety nutts! I am not saying airguns are like conkers but I am saying there are people out there who want to ban everything! They don't want kids to climb trees or play in the fields like they used to, just want them to be molly coddled and kept indoors etc etc!

Re: Air Rifles!
 

As it happens I agree with the current laws on Airguns and that they should not be freely used in public places etc - we live in different times today and i would think more youngsters would abuse them today than they did in the 70s! Finally I find you odd, that you think it's odd I am starting this thread because airguns were very common in use back then - so I don't see why you got a bee in your bonnet about this - or are you trying to censor the past?

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Actually a neighbour of mine died several years ago and his wife gave me his air pistol. It's one of these on the link but .22 a CO2 propelled one. Did some target practice with it on a friends land - unfortunately where you put the pellets has broken - it still fires but I have to hold it shut, which hampers correct aiming.

Daisy Powerline 617x Pellet Gun Air Pistols

Re: Air Rifles!
 

I don't agree that air rifles are made for no other purpose than to cause harm. You can cause harm with almost any item, the difference is down a person deciding if they want to cause harm or not.

I suspect that most air rifle in this country are used for target shooting.

An air rifle is not designed to shoot people, it is for vermin control and anything bigger than a rabbit should not be shot with an air rifle under 12 ft/lbs and then only at a maximum distance of about 30 yards.

If I wanted to kill someone the last thing I would use is an air rifle, I would be better off using it as a club than shooting them.

The problem with our gun laws in the UK is that they are made by politicians reacting to gun crime incidents that have happened. They should be made by unbiased people who are not trying to get re elected. Since the ban on legal hand gun ownership gun crime has increased not decreased. It was a complete waste of money by the government of the time and any intelligent person must have known that at the time.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Did you read the article in the Observer this week, about the shooting of pet ducks.... a good reason for laws on this.

Police hunt for thugs who shot dead nine ducks | Accrington Observer - menmedia.co.uk

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Hear hear Neil, very well said.

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No its not, someone could have killed them with a pointy stick or by throwing rocks at them.

Its a good example of how people pick on an incident and then want to legislate against that incident when we already have laws covering it.

It was in a public place, they did not have permission to shoot there, they did not have permission to shoot the ducks.

Already covered by the law, those responsible should be locked up.

I read the article and I could jump to conclusions about who would want 6 ducks and some scrap metal but I am sure most people reading it will have thought the same thing.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

An air rifle is a weapon and is designed to cause destruction. I would not want to know anyone who could justify its use.
In my work we do a very effective weapons awareness programme, perhaps it should be rolled out more broadly?

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Air rifles are for target practice and small pest control; rats, squirrels, pigeons, crows - usually from a hide.


It's the people with criminal tendencies who may use one as a decoy weapon or use it to maime someone as a form of attack or intimidation - these sorts are the problem.

Are you sure? 2 recent well known cases of people using legally owned weapons to kill members of their family both had gun licences! :rolleyes:

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Colin Greenwood an ex Chief Inspector of Police created a report for the Fire Arms Committe in 1966, in which he proved that every time we had a change to the fire arms act, gun crime increased.
All the countries with the strictest gun laws, have the worst gun crime rates.
In America those states which allow a concealed weapon permit, have the least gun crime.
It would no longer work in this country, lack of education, brainwashing, and propoganda.

After the Dumblane incident, one clever interviewer on TV, was questioning one of the two members of the British Pisol team, when she said "you go about equipped to be a murderer", his responce was, "you go about equipped to be a prostitute are you one", she left the set dammed quick, with a red face.

Retlaw.

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Now you are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel to try and make a point, 2 poeple out of near 1 million registered fire arms holders. There are more who die by negligence in hospitals every day, than have died by gun crime, but they seldom make glaring news headlines.
Retlaw.

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That is a typical statement from someone with little knowledge on the subject.
I could say the same about a brick.


Its use has been justified in previous posts but you can only think of criminal uses.

I agree, a big problem in the UK is the lack of gun education.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Which 2 cases do you mean?

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Why should people take a blind bit of notice of owt that paper prints Kate? With the complete garbage n lies they have recently,is why i make that point.

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Derrick Bird and Michael Atherton - Man who shot three women held gun licence | UK news | guardian.co.uk

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Air guns used to be as established in the "boys" toy cupboard as catapults and footballs. Not saying it's right but in the 60's and 70's a large percentage of lads had them.

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Ya I agree too susie, twas a knee jerk reaction at the time, ill thought out before legislation, no amount of legislation is going bother the criminal element one bit.

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Out of my group of mates of about 20 when I was young only one had an air rifle, 5% isn't large

Re: Air Rifles!
 

AIRGUN SHOOTING CLUBS AND SUPPLIERS (paragraph 2)

I'm sorry, but your comment is absolute guff, I've stayed out of the debate until now but your "hysterical sensationalist" comment has encouraged me to post. I first went shooting at about 13 with my father, using shotguns to take game for the table. Discipline, weapon handling & safety were drilled into us (my brother & myself) constantly, by my father.

I then went on to join the Military were weapons, their handling & use were an everyday occurrence. During this time I built up a great respect, knowledge & interest of various weaponry to the point I ended up in charge of the Unit armoury for my last two years. While serving I deployed on various tours were live ammunition was ever present & loaded into our weapons. Usually the only time those weapons were discharged were on a range & under controlled supervision.

I'm long since out of the Military but I still have an interest in weaponry & shooting, I own 2 Air rifles of varying quality & two air pistols also of varying quality. Most of the time the are safely tucked away but on occasion they are dusted off & a little target shooting is partaken of. I enjoy the pleasure it gives me & when people come here who also have an interest in shooting, we chat, compare notes & indulge in a little competition shooting.

So does my description of my air rifle usage come anywhere near your presumption Anne ?

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Good to hear from someone with a bit of experience who knows what he's talking about. The absolute key as you pointed out is experience at a young age and good supervision to get across the safety aspects.

I do agree with Kestrel about airguns being almost part of a kid's toybox years ago, at least that's the way it seemed to me and the link you posted seems to agree:

The "Airgun" was the gun most of todays shooting enthusiasts cut their teeth on. Although once considered a "toy" they have come a long way since those days and can no longer be put into that category.

MY brother had handguns for competitive shooting till the idiocy surrounding Dunblane scuppered that, and my partner has always had shotguns for clay pigeon and game shooting, so I am comfortable with the thought of guns and get very annoyed at some of the hysteria generated by the media and others, especially when it leads to kneejerk laws, no amount of which will legislate away incidents like the Derrick Bird shootings in Cumbria.

I was interested in the following from the link you posted:

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(1) a loaded shotgun

(b) an airgun (whether loaded or not)

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

It seems you can carry an empty shotgun in the street but not an empty airgun. Bizarre! Or is the above badly worded and an unloaded shotgun comes under (c) above?

Anyway Dave thanks for that post.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

It is badly worded, it should have included the words in a suitable carrying case.
If you have a Fire arm, & a certificate to verify that you are the owner, then as long as it is a case, and you are proceeding to or from a designated shooting place, then its perfectly legal to be in a public place,
An air pistol or rifle within the required legal power, in a case, is also legal if that person is 18 years of age, or over.
You will find the Fire Arms Act on the web site of Cybershooters.
Retlaw

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Fully in agreement Dave, like you got my experience and expertise in the military, from SMLE to SLR and the various other weapons of the times. I enjoyed my time on the ranges because you are challenging yourself - but one important fact has never been forgotten - never point a weapon at anyone, loaded or not, unless you intend to kill them, and always stick to the procedures.
The major problem as I see it is the regulations, and particularly the enforcement of them.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

I've just got my first airgun, grew up on a farm with reasonable numbers of pests, shot many things, never had a problem with it and supplied friends and family aswell as myself with plenty of food, dont see why theres such a problem with airguns nowadays, i just keep myself to myself and dont tell people who i expect to be concerned, about what i do and where i use them, i know it shouldnt even be a problem but :/ what can you do about it when the people with power dont listen

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Welcome to the site, I apologise for missing your entry in 'introduce yourself'.

Have no problem with your post until:-

i know it shouldnt even be a problem but :/ what can you do about it when the people with power dont listen

Such a sorry end, don't blame it on the people with power, you already know they don't listen, so why tell the rest of us? We've no power and the people with it don't listen to us either, just carry on hunting your food, Oh, if you get a spare rabbit give me a shout, ages since I've had a good one.

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haha sorry but there wont be much chance of a spare rabbit, my mum makes them all into pies and she'd be pretty angry if she knew anyone else besides her was getting them unfortunatley :(
And i know, people with power wouldnt do anything anyway, once our rights are taken away they never come back, anyways enough moaning for me eh

Re: Air Rifles!
 

I assume it's something fairly powerful if you're taking Rabbits & I'd also assume it's .22 ?

Re: Air Rifles!
 

By your above comment do you agree with the saying ".22 for fur and .177 for feathers"?

Re: Air Rifles!
 

To a point, but with a decent .177 rifle & pellets you can also take Rabbits, a lot depends on the distances you're talking. The Kit must be up to the job in hand to ensure a clean kill.

Having said all that it's been a very long time since I've taken anything for the table, the infrequent bit of shooting I do is target stuff.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

I agree with Neil's comment about education. In many rural areas of Canada, courses in firearm safety are offered in high schools (secondary schools), and in some jurisdictions is a pre-requisite for obtaining an FAC. Having spent time in rural Alberta, Dave in Germany probably knows about this stuff. Over here, restrictive gun laws cover only hand guns and fully automatic "assault" type weapons. Most of the relatively few gun crimes in Canada happen in our larger cities (yes, we have one or two), particularly the GTA, Montreal, and Vancouver. They are usually associated with gangs and drugs.

I don't own an air rifle ... I had one when I was a kid, a BSA .177 ... but I have a decent amount of legal firepower in my basement. Canadians don't have a constitutional right to bear arms, but there is the presumption that a law-abiding citizen should be able to own a long gun, and use it legally. Hunting, according to certain rules and at certain specified times of the year, is an acceptable pastime in Canada.

But, the UK? We are talking one densely populated little island here. In rural areas, I can see it, but ...

I think there is more to it than the mere possesion of firearms. In terms of long guns, Candians are just as well armed as our nutty neighbours. It's just that we tend not to go around shooting our neighbours.

Re: Air Rifles!
 

Yeah its a 12ft/lbs .22, and a .177 will take rabbits will take rabbits with headshots up to about 70 yards providing your a capable shot, but a .22 will take a pidgeon at 60 yards if your using superpoints, drops them clean as the pellet pentrates more, all depends on how good of a shot you are..

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I suppose if your shooting and going to eat them, using air rifle is better as with a shotgun you have to pick out all the lead shot, sometimes bits are left in and cause hell with the eaters fillings. However like you say the user has to be a good shot in order to avoid maiming the target.