Ubuntu 8.04
 

Some months ago Ian pursuaded me to try Linux, obtained a free version on a CD. Ian showed me the programm on his laptop, said it was just like windoze only more stable. Tried it for now for the 3rd time, this times its got past all the barriers and installed itself within windoze.

What good is it, can't find any of the programs I'm used to using.
I use Photoshop Pro every day, and windoze explorer to view and print he results. Tried all the buttons on the tool bar.Can't access any thing, so I ask again what good is it ?.

Retlaw.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Applications>Graphics>Gimp takes some getting used too but it does the same trick.
None of the programs are the same but you can find equivalents

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

"Photoshop Pro" ? Never heard of it.

Photoshop CS runs perfectly on Ubuntu using Wine.

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What is the point of installing Linux because it is so good and then running WIndows applications in it :confused::D

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

yes, as other have said, stop thinking I need to use Phtoshop and start thinking I need to edit a picture

There is far more to good software than a single program for the job. Competition breeds improvements.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Sorry fellas
But at my age its not easy to learn new programs, especially having got used to photoshop pro and win explore, for what I do. I was under the impression, that I would be able to continue using my existing programs.

Can I import my programs into ubuntu, without having to go for all the other stuff, like wine, susie and a load of others. Yes or No.


Retlaw.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

In a word - No
But you could run them through wine or a VM (Virtual Machine) having Linux and Windows open together

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

The adobe suite is actually built with mac it's ideal "home"

And whereas in most other areas I would agree with you linux can often produce software which is of a equal or better standard to that used on other OS's it is a simple fact that the software in the Adobe Creative Suite is well ahead of any competition.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Nope, I did tell you that programs wouldn't work.
Windows programmes aren't the be all and end all, there are some absolutely stunning apps under Linux and you don't need to worry about security anything like Windows.

I'd agree adobe are quite good generally however they aren't cheap. A legit copy of Photoshop is horrendeously expensive.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Any programs you use in Windows you can most likely find an alternative program HERE

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

I had this discussion with a sales chap in toys r us. He was trying to convince me that an eeepc with Linux on would be a good buy for my wife's friend for her son to use for his homework. Even when I explained that his school use Windows XP and Microsoft Office 2003 he still said it was a good machine for his homework. I told him that he would be learning with one application at school then have to learn another one at home - talk about a blinkered Linux biased opinion.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Openoffice is fully compatible with M$ office o_O

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Except Powerpoint

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Besides eeePC's are about as easy to type with as a cat.

Retlaw most people who desperately need to use the exact same application use Wine to run it with no problems. However I when on Windows I actually use the Linux equivalent to photoshop as K.S.H pointed out, GIMP. It's completely free and no, not as feature rich as photoshop, but it does everything that I require from a picture editing point of view.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Err, I'm pretty sure Powerpoint is compatible to some degree, Access has no direct comparison but BTH who would want a compatible as its a damned awful DB.

However, if you do some serious stuff in spreedsheets you usually end up using VBA( Visual Basic for Applications ) to some degree which isn't compatible in OO.

Then you get that age old fly in the ointment that is Publisher, why anyone uses it is a complete mystery to me as hardly anyone you want to send the files to has it and its not easy to convert to any other format. It wouldn't be so bad if there was a Publisher viewer like there is a powerpoint viewer.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

All good points Ian and why I believe Linux will not take off at home until it starts to be more mainstream in the workplace. When that happens schools will start to use it and so kids will need it at home. That will be years of in my opinion - if ever.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

TBH Even in the business world that I see on a daily basis, few people (apart from a few geeks aside) have any knowledge on how to use ANY Office software 'properly'.

e.g.

people who think that carriage returns and spaces should be used to pad things out

Page breaks are a thing of wonder

embedded objects are a mystical black art

I have yet to meet anyone else who understands how to use a pivot table

VBA is for geeks, it makes my life much easier and I'm often asked by self proclaimed spreadsheet gurus "how do you do that!"

for everyday peole Open Office is absolutely fine.

Inetrtia is the key here and the more eeePCs out there the better.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Especially ones running Windows XP :D

I quite fancy a Samsung NC10, with Xp of course. I think I would dual boot it with Linux as it would be a good excuse to learn about Linux and I do feel the need to.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

I run Ubuntu on my computer whilst my wife runs Windows on hers. She may mock the fact it takes me a little longer to get it started up but once the two are running it's no competition.

The point made about Powerpoint is a good one, because that piece of software is one of the few that Microsoft can legitimately claim to be ahead of the curve on. I all other respects OpenOffice holds up more than adequately, as do a number of other alternatives.

I do a lot of audio work on our machines, and having Audacity able to run of Windows and Linux makes life very easy for me, mainly because the audio hardware in the wife's computer is a bit better than mine.

Whilst photoshop has become a standard in the same way as Office (i.e. not always the best but the one that crops up the most) there are good alternatives out there and to be honest GIMP doesn't take a lot of effort to learn (I genuinely find it much easier to work with than photoshop).

However what worries me is this statement...

So, we should be teaching our children specifically to use one OS and one piece of software for every job? I've taught IT and suggested a number of Open-Source / Freeware alternatives to software that parents would otherwise have to buy and the parents loved me for it whilst the kids adapted quickly. We were a hairs breadth away from installing Linux on the school network as well (held up only by an IT Tech who didn't want to leave the comfort zone).

I've grown up with computers, we were taught not just on BBC compatibles at school but also Spectrums and Commodores. That should continue today and wherever possible kids should be encouraged to use a variety of different systems.

For the record, I'm no Windows hater. Whilst I may dislike some of MS's practices I use Windows, Linux and Mac OS happily both on a personal and professional level and use Ubuntu at home because I consider it to be the most stable and effective solution for my needs. If I was a big gamer though, I'd choose Windows for obvious reasons.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

i would have no problem with my kids learning several os's but when they use windows only at school i think it is essential at home
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Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

As long as there is format portability it genuinely seemed to make very little difference to most. The less abled kids were usually able to operate alternative systems to exactly the same level whilst the more technically-minded kids enjoyed having something new to find the ins and outs of.

That of course, is just my experience and I in no way want to insist that this is the case with everyone.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Why ?

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

So they can carry on learning what they are taught at school at home. I would not make my kids do maths equations the way I was taught if their teacher wants them to do it another way, I will help them do it the way the teacher shows them.

Same goes for PC's and applications IMHO.

Are you a Linux freak?

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Hypothetically... if this meant that they were taught spreadsheets using a top-end professional package rather than Excel, would you upgrade to that?

You are right not to contradict their teacher, but that doesn't mean you cannot expand their learning. That's like preventing a child learning about WWI because their teacher is delivering lessons on the industrial revolution. Again as a teacher I am thrilled to bits when a kid turns up having learned something outside of the syllabus and that challenges me to keep them as interested as the rest of the class.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Yes.

I never said I would prevent them learning. I said it would be cool for them to learn several OS's. What I said was if they use Windows at school I think it is needed at home. It ok to have OS's as well but it would be a touch unfair if they could not practice at home what they are taught at school.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

The difference being there is justification behind the school choosing to teach a different equation than the one that you were taught and there are no benefits from a broader range of knowledge in the area of maths equations - being comfortable using different brands of the same type of software may well prove invaluable for your child in the future.

And no.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Yes it might but given that school time is short and that almost no businesses use Linux as a desktop operating system it could be seen as a waste of time.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

you seem to be discussing something that in reality should have no bearing. The underlying OS should not 'taint' the user interface or its doing too much. Open Office looks and works exactly like Openoffice( and MS Office in all but a few buttons) on all platforms, similarly browsers, email clients, image editing software.

The whole point is that you can sit a "Windows" child at a Linux desktop and they will be just as productive. In fact I'd argue its us old fogeys who would be less likely to cope as adults are far less open to change than children

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Heh, just found this on one of my regular haunts. OK its merkinland but it does show the sort of struggle we face.

http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/1...kids-back.html

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

The thing is, if for instance you try & tell a child how to do a maths sum, but your using a different method to the one they have been taught, they child will get extremely upset trying to say that they must do it the same way (well all mine did).

So by using a different OS & different packages to those thatthey use at school, things are going to be different. I.E. Word2007 at school & openoffice3 at home, the files will be different as they are not 100% compatible, so some conversion will have to be done.
This takes up time that they have not got in class. It may also mean redoing some formatting.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

At least I am not that nieve :D

Then again I do have linux running on 6 boxes, shame I don't know a bit more about it :rolleyes:

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Careful what you say- David Beckham got slated in the press when he said exactly the same thing about Brooklyn's homework. :rolleyes:

I don't think it's that big a deal... Kids can remember the controls for a dozen different games at any given time. A few different versions of the same basic application, with common concepts and shortcuts aren't going to make much difference.

I had Ubuntu installed on my laptop for a few months. It was OK, but hard work to maintain, even for a geek like me. The days of an IT department with an almost godlike status have all-but disappeared, and IT users are too "empowered" to risk those days coming back. Your typical office worker will want a PC with a few hundred quid's worth of operating system and productivity software on it that they can rely on, something that works with icons and buttons, not scpripts and (often) a command-line interface. They'll want "words of one syllable" support from internet searches they can do themself, not an hour on the 'phone with some socially-challenged geek explaining in intricate detail a process that will fail if just one aspect is even slightly wrong.

An extreme example? Perhaps. But until Linux standardises into one version it's never going to replace Windows. I'd love for it to become mainstream, really. It's just not going to happen until regular users can cope.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Studio, I'm agog at your hard to maintain comment, can you expand? Ubuntu is easier than pretty much every single OS I've come across in this respect, it checks at a predetermined(customisable) period, tells you there are updates by an icon in the sys tray. Click this and it get the list of whats available, you can de-select any you specifically don't want and it then asks for your password, job done.

Even a geek like me rarely ventures into CLI in Ubuntu, the only time I have done in the last couple of months was when I wanted to configure a bluetooth 3G connection via my phone which is not exactly something a lot of people would want to do(actually you can even do this via GUI but I wanted to do some low level checks and as I'm a Comand line geek both at work and home its sometimes just 'quicker' to do it directly).

The only other tiems I would consider CLI now are if I'm doing something weird across a filesystem where being good at scripting I can make global changes very quickly. e.g. I use a Perl Script to create thumbnails of 3 sizes and generate HTML index sheets for images. Yep I could use a GUI Tool with Batch mode but it would involve numerous clicks, selections, etc, I just run "pix2tn <directory>" and its all done in no time.



What you say about standardisation in already in place(Linux Standard Base (LSB) - The Linux Foundation), standardisation does not mean just one distribution to rule them all. The fact that Linux can and does run on everything from microwaves to home PCs, Supercomputer clusters to Space stations tells you that its not sensible to have 'one' version.

I know you aren't some Linux hater but I genuinely don't see your comments as anything like what the reality of Linux today provides

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

I don't agree with that comment. Everywhere I have worked have had an IT department that sets out what you can and can't do by limiting the users access rights. You can't install anything hardware or software - they do it for you if they agree it is compatible and safe to do so.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Heh, on our stuff you can't even plug a USB stick in without you getting the sack! hardware and software is centrally managed to such a tight degree that I often need to get a tech support to 'sit' with me(over remote desktop of course as they are in Hungary) whilst I do some tasks as they are deemed 'dangerous'

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

This bloke puts it far more eloquently than I could. My personal experience is quite specific, so the reason Linux didn't work for me is not itself a valid explanation for my opinion on why Linux is not more generally accepted, but I'll offer both.

I think it's "institutionalisation" - both general users and semi-geeks can't always justify the extra time needed to dedicate to getting results on their new machine/software/operating system- and that's not accommodating the possibility that they have a piece of hardware for which there's no driver.

When I got this laptop, it had two partitions (for some reason known only to Dell). 18GB was hived off as the D drive, which was available for Ubuntu. I bought an "idiot's guide" magazine with a distribution CD on the cover. It installed easy enough, then went through its update routine. My main requirement was video editing: I tried Cinlerra first, which would not run. I forget the exact error message (this was six months ago) but internet searches suggested I need to edited a config file. It still didn't work. I ditched that and tried Kino, which worked, but then it turns out that there was no driver for my ExpressCard firewire device.

I gave up and went back to the Windows partition. When I eventually needed my 18GB back, it took an internet search to work out that it's GRUB you need to get rid of really, then you can just format the drive, but even removing GRUB isn't straightforward- in fact for a novice it's fraught with danger.

I'm not thick, but age and a career change from IT to photography ten years ago have meant that I'm not as involved with current developments as I used to be. So despite referring to myself as a geek, it's in mentality only- in practical terms, I'm out of touch.

As I say, it would be great if Linux overtook Windows, but I can't see it happening. The difference between XP and Vista should have dramatically tipped the balance from Windows to Linux, but it didn't happen. When one of my geekier friends tried Vista, he abandoned it for compatibility, bugs and performance problems. He kept his Linux server, but for his front end went to MacOS.

I could see Firefox stealing a huge chunk of the browser market when I first tried it, and it has. It won't overtake IE until 2014 though, and that's only if the current usage trends don't change (which Chrome may affect). The reason it is bucking the trend for open source alternatives for other applications (such as operating systems) is because of its simplicity of purpose: Firefox isn't Linux- while I think Linux is better than Windows mostly, being better doesn't always equate to a winner. Look at VHS vs Betamax...

As to the IT dept thing, I wasn't suggesting IT depts don't keep the systems running and the PCs virus* free. I was suggesting that your typical user can now manage their own workflow without having applications written for them by the IT dept which require intervention if they go wrong. I worked at British Steel 20 years ago, and the sales manager used an office suite called "Smart". He had umpteen complex spreadsheets with hundreds of little macros to shuffle his data about. I told him it would take two or three days to reorganise that into a simple, fast bespoke program. He passed on the offer- his system belonged to him, and he could maintain it unaided. Getting programmers to write something that could be shared with his co-workers offered only advantages to the business and his coworkers, individually he lost much and gained nothing.

Sorry for rambling. I've been coming back to this on-and-off during the day and it's got a bit disjointed.

* I'd love Linux/MacOS to beat Windows, or FireFox/Chrome to beat MSIE, just for the diversity, but it would also be fun to watch all the people who currently rave about their supposed immunity to them will find out why it is so.

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Re: Ubuntu 8.04
 

Ubuntu would be ok if it actually worked when it installed :(

IBM P4 - install went fine but never finishes booting into Ubuntu. Just sits at a rather boring brownish screen. You can play with the mouse pointer though ;)