Mortgaging the family silver
 

Andy asked an appropriate question on Twitter this morning ...


We have the option (theoretically) of selling the ownership of the ground, to Andy, a subsidiary, or A.N Other, and leasing the ground back. This COULD put a large sum of money into the pot to fund a promotion tilt to The Championship. We would then lease the ground back ...

Q should we do it?

I know what my answer would be but Im lumped in under 'unambitious and happy with Stanley's lot'. Others have stated that this is our chance and we should be investing into the squad.

It was noted that this one-shot injection would fund an above average L1 budget

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

To be honest dont understand it proper, only thing concerns me at the moment, is how would this be sustained?if ground is leased then surely its at the will of leaseholder?

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I'd like to know a bit more about it before offering my opinion tbh, it would depend who the prospective new leaseholder was for a start

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I thought that this is what you do to save your club when there are no options left. Not to fund a promotion push by a club that couldn't sustain it at the higher level anyway. Count me in among the unambitious.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I would certainly love us to achieve it, but not at "Any Cost"

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Absolutely agree, wouldn't want to do a Bury

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I thing his question was theoretical as opposed to 'im considering doing ...". Its on the back of an argument as to what defines a fit n proper owner? As we all know many clubs have owners who throw silly money into their clubs and its not sustainable. If their personal slush fund runs dry they look to finance the gamble another way. Some clubs sell their training ground, then the stadium etc etc until theres nothing left and the club is on its arse

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

The freehold cost £400k - which led to a £23,000 saving on rent.
Kayden Jackson paid for that.
I assume the club owns all the stands etc so in reality what is it worth to an investor ?
How much will the rent be ?
You would have to say that if the investor was Andy Holt you might trust the move more.
However whilst Andy is close to being God, as a businessman what a good deal this would be for HIM.
The only other way to push on is to sell players and try to pick up bargains.
Not sustainable in my humble opinion but I don't want to get pulled in to the age old argument yet again.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Thats the thing though 28 ... most owners dont start out as bad or 'rogue' owners as Andy puts it. Whilst nobody really thinks it a good move to sell the ground, we WOULD probably trust him. But in 5, 10, 15 years time who knows what transpires? He could drop dead tomorrow and Mrs Holt decides to cash all her chips in to that mong who wanted to rename us Lancashire United!

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Worse than that, Andy turns into Astute Businessman Ltd and increases the rent year on year regardless of the club's status.
I really can't be bothered to get into this argument again about what's right for the club.
I have my thoughts as do most contributors on here and I accept I am 1/ Not a die hard with a huge club history and 2/ In the minority.
As long as the old timers are happy .......... game on.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Lol, youre definitely right on point 1!

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Im not picking an argument with you 28, but i do value your opinion and different angle on things. Reading Andy's twitter frequently, you notice that the ones who disagree with him tend to come from clubs who have money.

Most long timers here know the value of a shilling, and many have toiled on the ground at one time or another to save the club tuppence. Fans of larger clubs tend not to see where the pennies add or up and find it easier to argue the investment side

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

There are three options by the looks of things.

As we are - status quo - and pray Coley unearths players for nowt that keep us at least mid table. Accept if we slip down at least we're solvent and as it seems the fans won't walk away.

Sell our prized players and try and generate a budget to give it a real go and invest in League One status players. Last year we sold but didn't invest in the playing staff.

Sell the ground and generate a budget etc as above and try and keep the best players.

I think we all know what the consensus is so in the words of Status Quo ....... whatever you want.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Andy Holt out !

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

not funny dav.:(

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I'm with Greger.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I'm with the majority. As S2 said, it would be a one-shot injection - even if it did realise enough funds to strengthen the squad enough to make promotion reasonably feasible, we would still be in the hands of the gods of football as to whether it actually happened (note how Pompey and Sunderland faltered right at the end of this season). And if it did, we would surely need to strengthen again to have any hope of surviving in the Championship - and where would the funds for that come from?

Imho, buying the ground was the best financial move ever when it comes to guaranteeing (as far as anybody can) the continued survival of the club. Selling it again now would seem completely perverse......

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

[QUOTE=Chimer;1228423]I'm with the majority. As S2 said, it would be a one-shot injection - even if it did realise enough funds to strengthen the squad enough to make promotion reasonably feasible, we would still be in the hands of the gods of football as to whether it actually happened
and once its gone its gone for good and its never going to happen again. stanleys problem will always be the actual size of the ground no matter what the interest in the club is. if the ground was sold and it enabled the club to gain promotion its just not big enough to sustain a championship football team even with the sponsorship it gets.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I can understand Mr Holt's ambitions for the club, but this would seem a massive gamble, especially after we only recently obtained the freehold.
It's already a miracle that we are one of the few clubs not actually in negative equity, let alone the smallest town supporting a L1 team.
Does anyone seriously think we can compete with big city Championship clubs, many of whom have spent millions in failed attempts to reach the PL.
Far better to 'cut our cloth' according to our purse than ransom our future on a risky gamble.
How much more satisfying having achieved our present success on a shoestring budget & low gates.
Bigger clubs than ours must be looking down & thinking - 'How the hell do they do it?'
We should be as happy as a pig in s***!

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

I am Mlord.:)

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Imho, buying the ground was the best financial move ever when it comes to guaranteeing (as far as anybody can) the continued survival of the club. Selling it again now would seem completely perverse......[/QUOTE]


Even if it was to Andy Holt ?

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Yes, because the club will (hopefully, and especially if it owns the ground) outlive Andy :eek:, and his heirs and successors might :confused: not be so well inclined towards Stanley.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Which is what occured later at Blackburn after Jack Walker died,

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

absolutely, only this week there was a mini meltdown on twitter with some Altrincham fans still bemoaning us rising higher than them. Someone else accused us of having done a Salford and stomping our way through non-league. The satisfaction of knowing that we never ever bought our way through a league and did everything the hard way was immense. And I enjoyed pointing out the facts of the matter

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Trouble is though complete knobs put their own slant on things when really they are clueless, well done macca,

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Heard everything now. Folks in Altrincham moaning that those in Accrington have more money. :rolleyes:

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

When Stanley were in the Cheshire league Alty were the best team in non-league but they had to be voted in.

One of the votes they lost by 1 and 2 people were delayed and missed the vote who were going to vote for them.

Remember when we played them in the 4th Qualifying round and they had no keeper? It was one of Stanley's biggest games.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

The lowest average home gate in the Championship last season was Rotherham United with 9,880. Even if we had a full house for every home game (which we wouldn't have), our average home gate would still only be just over half that. How long would we survive in the Championship in those circumstances, even with the fillip of a one-shot payment from selling our ground?

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

The Championship would be a great dream realized, but only the village idiot could expect us to survive in it. i would honestly love it, if we somehow managed it and returned the season after. i would die a very happy bunny.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Burton Albion’s average home gate this season was 3,228. They were in the Championship for two seasons, averaging 5,228 and (when relegated) 4,645.
On home gates alone that suggests Stanley would be lucky to survive one season if the miracle of promotion happened.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

What a great thread this is, everyone pulling the same way, almost total agreement. The only thing I can't understand is some doubts about going in to the championship, why would it cost any more? We would get better gates, earn more money from the F.A., visit different grounds, I don't see any down side, certainly the players wages may be higher but some may be happy just to play in a higher league, as Cash says, I'd take it for a season and enjoy the experience. As for the ground being sold, makes no sense.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

What, I wonder, were the Crazy Gangs average home gates before they became the plastic Dons? Remeber, they played at Plough Lane and yet they managed to get to 1st Division (Premiership) and win the FA Cup. It is possible to survive and, yes, even get promoted to the EPL, but would we, the supporters, be happy?

BTW, my thoughts on this subject are, we must never sell the ground etc for what could prove to be a folly

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Andy stated a few weeks ago that if we got jnto the Championship he'd give Coley a million to pull up a deckchair with him and wait for League 1 to start again!

Championship is worth £7m instead of £700k in tv cash, he douldnt give a monkeys if we had crowds of a thousand or sell outs. To us its a fortune and would entirely finish our ground AND put a good wedge towards the following season L1 push if we came straight down.

If we went up it would be another happy accident like the last 2 title wins! But i wouldnt spend a deliberate penny chasing it

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Yeh nailed it correctly there mate.;)

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Who is going to pay a lot of money for land with a restrictive covenant on limiting it to football stadium use?

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

thats fine if it remained like that but when there,s money flying about you could see the restrictive covenant being removed if the brown envelopes are big enough.

Re: Mortgaging the family silver
 

Hope you have made your will out Andy.