ASFC Academy
 

Just been announced that we are closing our Academy to save costs - the lads who are part of it must be devastated, sad sign of the times

Re: ASFC Academy
 

ForzaAccy says they've heard from sources they've been told to find other clubs.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

https://www.accringtonstanley.co.uk/...-board-update/

Wow....

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Very sad but, given recent National and local decisions, not even Stanley can defy the onslaught on businesses and jobs.

https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/...46111d268a1314

Re: ASFC Academy
 

So in the space of a season we've gone from promoting our Gen X as the future to this - sad & very short sighted imho

Re: ASFC Academy
 

very sad for the young lads of accrington, our council should be helping our club not
Penalising it

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Did I see/hear the top Academy bloke speaking at the Fans' Forum?!??!!?!?

:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Correct............

Re: ASFC Academy
 

He said they had just expanded in staffing numbers to 11 and had 100 players on the books with 10 available to the senior squad.

He said the were looking to improve next season and become the top Cat 3 academy.

Why make him say all that if the plan was to sack the lot? Seems a mad decision which 2% employers NI rise won't be a key factor or they wouldn't have increased staff this year costing far in excess of any NI increase.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Council statement:
https://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/news/h...cR4e4udUmKOgfg

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Thought I have heard something like that, thanks for that :)

:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Makes no sense whatsoever

The club will receive 500k a year from the EFL to fund the running of the Cat 3 academy and Stanley are in a much better place than most in that they have use of a fully eqpt facility for what you would imagine would be a reasonable rent in comparison to other clubs who will be paying full ad hoc charges here and there to rent facilities.

If the yearly deficit is a reasonable amount which it must be as there arent dozens of other lower league clubs going down the same path why couldnt Andy Holt or one of his companies have agreed to fund the deficit with a reducing amount for say 3 years giving the club time to find alternative sponsorship to cover the required amount.

There looks to be a lot more to this decision than first meets the eye and the clubs fans deserve more than a short statement saying the deed has already been done with absolutely no figures whatsoever for christs sake AH used to tell you how many cups of coffee the away fans bought on a match day. And you have to wonder why the club can afford to lose 150k by limiting the away allocations for the last 3 home games and how that money couldnt have been used towards funding the Academy for the next year.

If i were you guys i would be asking whats next because since this new guy took over its been nothing but Bad News and cuts and as has been said it seems very strange that this action has been taken so quickly after the head of the academy had stood up at the forum with clearly not an inkling of what was to come.

Currently the Official Club website is in contravention of the EFL rules in that it doesnt name the current board members or indeed who is the ultimate owner and why do you no longer hear a peep from the likes of Dave Burgess.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Taken off podcast... On Friday I had a very frank, open and honest conversation with Warren Eastham CEO of Accrington Stanley regarding the events occurring at the club since he hosted the Fans Forum on Apr 28th.

What was presented then was accurate with regards to the Academy and the Hyndburn Borough Council but everything changed the following Tuesday when a club meeting was held on the budget for next season.
Everything changed then when Andy Holt advised that his financial contribution to the club wouldn't exceed £250,000.

With no income coming in from Coley's this meant expenses far exceeded income so something had to give. Other than first team players salary the Academy was the next biggest expenditure so then it becomes what is the return on investment from the Academy. The income from players sold this past season was £126,000 which is not enough to move the needle really. In March the Academy lost £27,000 and April was set to lose over £30,000.

The next determining factor was how many players would make the first team in the next two seasons or could be sold to justify financing the Academy and the answer was none. There was potential for three players in three to four years to make the first team or be sold for around £1m but only if they reached their full potential and that's a big if. In the meantime losses per month would continue.

With the limited financing from Andy Holt, and you can understand his position, on top of a canceled revenue stream from Coley's something had to give and that was the Academy.

Then in steps HBC, due to public push back, and they offer to help finance the Academy to the tune of £140,000 which sounds good but doesn't cover the losses when you see it is losing over £25,000 per month. Also it doesn't address the main problem and that is the lost revenue from the bar. If HBC had the best interest of the community at heart and really wanted to help the club then agree to put the funds towards a new roof on the main stand so an important source of income can return. Then you could look at keeping the Academy.

It looks like a good move on the part of HBC but in the light of day it was reactionary and it boils down to a political move in response to public pressure and came only after the announcement the Academy was closing.

Regarding contracts, we as fans only see the tip of the iceberg and if a player doesn't sign we have a tendency to blame the club. What we don't know is the player's demands and how it fits the wage structure and the teams budget. When the team can't meet a player's expectations and he leaves fans may look unfavourably at the club when that's not actually the real story.

Social media allows everyone to have an opinion even without having all the facts, yours truly included, and to be fair the club can't respond to each and every person especially when things change on a daily basis.
We need to have faith in the people making the decisions and trust they have the best interests of club at heart.

Accrington Stanley is a community club but first and foremost it's a business and you can't continue to operate when your expenses are more than your income, especially when an important revenue stream is taken away. Offering to partly finance the Academy isn't the answer, sorting out soundproof roof on the facilities is.

Tough decisions have been made over the past two weeks and I have faith in Warren making the right ones.
Tough decisions have to be made or we won't have a club and no one wants a repeat of March 1962.

Cheers
Tony Robinson
On Stanley On !!

Re: ASFC Academy
 

With the utmost respect, I know not how much of that is true......... :confused:


:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

And that is NOT a slant on you mab!!


:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Thanks for your post, Mab.
However, as Valairian exemplifies, some fans on here (and maybe elsewhere) just don’t seem to want to believe or accept the commercial realities of trying to run a business in the UK today.
No disrespect to you, Val.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Non taken Exile, it is a forum and it is about opinions ;)

:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

WOW........Does that mean you believe no one ever tells the truth and everybody "has an agenda?" If that's the case I don't think I should post on here anymore.....

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Stanley has never been run as a business and loses money hand over fist most years. It can make profit selling a player, but those days seem long gone and there was never an operating profit in those years.

The purpose of a business is to make a profit, so it isn't a real business, run on charitable principles, asking fans to volunteer and work for nothing, and requiring cash injections of many past shareholders to stay afloat.

The almighty cock up with the Venue and they blame everyone but themselves, and blame the Council for doing their job which rather than their own incompetence.

The fact the CEO was totally in the dark about next season's budget shows he has been put there for a purpose while the decisions are being made above him.

If you run a lower league club you get Season Tickets on sale early and push their sales, as it gives longer to sell them, you get the money earlier, and most importantly you have more idea of your budget for the next year. If they had a drive of selling them back in March to keep the academy going, there would have been good will and more sold. Now you have loyal fans questioning whether to bother or not, and they have done the opposite.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

No and no C.G. :)

:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

The utilitarian interior of 'Coley's Bar', open to the roof with exposed ceiling ducts etc., was obviously a design choice aimed at keeping costs down.
Unfortunately, the result is a giant tin-can echo chamber.
Perhaps the simplest option would be to install a suspended ceiling with sound proofing blanket above to help keep any sound generation within the room.
Obviously there is no remedy without cost, but surely this would be the cheapest option to help resolve the problem?

Re: ASFC Academy
 

So are you saying the councils figure of 140k is wrong ? because if it is you have to wonder how so seeing as their press release all but said that was the figure the club had given them.

This seems to be a very knee jerk reaction from the club given the timescales involved. I believe AH has a charitable foundation why couldnt he use this to contribute to the losses as that way HMRC would effectively be paying half of it

Another option that several non league clubs use to fund their academies [ dont forget they dont get the 500k towards its running that Accy currently do ] is by the use of funded places where rich parents effectively buy their kids an opportunity to join an academy 4 places at 35k would cover the deficit.

It just seems to me that theres currently no body at the club whos a problem solver or rule bender but to blame the current taxation rises is an absolute pile of you know what when every other business in the country has experienced the same rises as they have and the club has just increased its prices by way more than the rate of increase in the NI rises etc.

As for the Coleys problem theres a simple answer to this thats staring them in the face but it just seems to me that they arent interested in solutions just in prolonging the row with the Labour councillors when theres a way to solve it without either party needing to back down and one which when put to a vote would put the Labour councillors right on the spot Do they want to save Accrington Stanley or not ?

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Where can you watch the above mentioned podcast please ?

Re: ASFC Academy
 

The Academy's gone. The club moves on. The council trying to save face with a last minute offer does not help the club. Good luck all academy players and staff.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Well if i were you guys i.d be going for the head and the job of the idiot who made that decision.

The council arent the only source of funding but given the admitted timescale of just a week its pretty clear that in that time zero effort had been made to explore alternative avenues.

I wouldnt mind betting that if theyd come out and said if we cant find the deficit to fund next season by say July 1st its closing the money from the council would have got them well over halfway there.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

1. "Idiot?" Very emotive language, is that your opinion whoever your referring to.
2. "Zero effort" ....that's an assumption.
3. Money offered by the council was under half the amount required. It was a one-off payment not a long term annual commitment from the Council.

We are just not privy to all the relevant information the Club used to make their decision. It's for the Board of Directors to make those decisions....not you or me or anyone else. It's closed and gone NS. We can only "move on" and support the team, staff and club on match days and where we can.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Spot on CG, what happened yesterday has gone, let's look forward to tomorrow and get behind our owner, directors and staff.
Onwards and upwards.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Apparently not. this Eastham guy has now admitted that the 140k from the council WOULD fund the Academy deficit for a year.

But hes not accepting it because either because he wants them to fund the soundproofing of Coleys instead [ which clearly isnt going to happen ] or because the problem will be the same in a years time and he cant be arsed to spend that year ensuring that the required funding is in place by then.

I find it unbelievable that people on here are quite content to roll over and let them remove whats seen as a vital part of a lower league football club and dont see the closure as not just the loss of the route into the professional game for local kids but the best tool that the club has to raise football fortune to provide the club with an income stream going forward and the fact that it hasnt done for the last couple of seasons or isnt expected to next season and shouldnt be seen as a reason to close it but should be seen as a reason to make it better and start finding a few more Ross Sykes.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Yes you're right. The £140k was a one-off. Do you know how much the soundproofing would cost and if spent if it would be acceptable to the Council? The Academy's gone. We have enough information as fans to decide what to do about tickets for next year. Another year in the football league with a new manager was a massive achievement for a club of our size and deserves celebration. Well done to everyone at the club.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

I could see the council putting in the £140k to maintain a youth set up in the borough but I’m not too sure they could legitimately offer the money for the roof, in short I don’t see it as an either/or

Re: ASFC Academy
 

I could see the council putting in the £140k to maintain a youth set up in the borough but I’m not too sure they could legitimately offer the money for the roof, in short I don’t see it as an either/or

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Some Councils widnes, like the City, Unitary and larger County Councils support business and have the knowledge and financial acumen to do it...but small district and borough councils have the specialist managers and accountants with time and desire to do it. As for the local councillors in Hyndburn they haven't the skills or background to understand what's necessary nor the knowledge about readily available Prudential Borrowing to support long term Capital Projects. Plus they've got their own headaches coming constantly from residents and local voters. In short, they neither have the skills, knowledge or understanding of business and only do what might get themselves re-elected.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Borrowing from the PWLB isn't complicated and everything was relaxed under localism and GPoC.

Spending on the Academy will be mainly revenue and not capital, plus how do you pay back the PWLB if it is projected to lose money?

With funding being cut again in 2026/27 to break even, this isn't the last of the club cuts, and bar big away cup tie draws or players sold for good money, it is looking bleak.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

1. I wasn't suggesting borrowing as a solution for the Academy. Your right you never borrow for revenue costs ....unless you are the Government...and we all know how that's going to end.....AND IT WON'T END WELL. tHE academy cost us a lot of money since inception and is a dead duck. The Council offered one-off support to make it look like it was offering help knowing it would never be taken-up.
2. Who knows about the playing budget or budget in general. I suggest no-one on here. We'll have to wait and see how the season pans out.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Confirmation.......



https://www.accringtonstanley.co.uk/...re-of-academy/

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Not just Stanley’s Academy that is suffering under existing and emerging financial circumstances….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/c9wgg8y881lo

Re: ASFC Academy
 

20+ minute interview with Eastham on Twitter.......


:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

As I am listening to it, questions to myself.......

If players are moving on to better Academies - Cat 1 - why are they not good enough to play for Stanley? :confused:


:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Thinking more & more we are being treated like mushrooms :(

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Well give the Guy credit for coming on and speaking to Dan for 20 minutes on a not very comfortable situation.

But i for one feel hes created a massive rod for his own back here in any number of ways the first and the one that relates to the Academy is that going on the figures hes provided the club were only spending 160k a year on top of the 500k the EFL gives them and it doesnt take a genius to work out that after the 140k the council offered them they would have only had to find 20k to fund it for the next year which would have given them 12 months to get something in place to fund the 160k a year going forward and for a start i know of at least two locally based companies who would have probably been willing to cover it all if the club had been willing to give them the publicity opportunities and a bit of an incentive or two.

That would then give Eastham 12 months to put the necessary funding in place to cover the 160k each year going forward and lets face it if he couldnt do that then he shouldnt be in the job.

But it doesnt even have to be that big a job from a bit of digging i understand the academy were operating with 3 members of staff more that the EFL stipulated minimum so theres a saving of 75k to start with and how big a job would it be for Shaun Whalley or whoever is going to be club captain to stand up and say to the players we.re all going to throw 20 quid a week in 30 players and staff £20 52 weeks and youre looking at 30 grand a season.

The decision was made way too quickly for me and if Eastham had the balls given what he said about Andy Holts pride in the academy i.m sure afer a few beers he couldnt have persuaded AH to fund the 20k just for this year in able to avoid shutting down the academy and avoiding all the grief heartache and bad publicity that this has brought not just on the club but on AH himself the town and to an extent the council before they at least made an effort with the 140k offer.

Which leads us on to what i.m pretty sure is the crux of the matter and why they wouldnt take the 140k from the council as it would have muddied the water regarding the other matters but would have saved the academy.

And on then we go to the other matters there were a number of things in the interview that were very hard to believe are true and as someone who spent over 25 years working in the management development and marketing of licensed premises astounded me.

Firstly did the plans that HBC passed include any soundproofing and if they didnt why didnt the planners pick up on that or was it in the plans and simply omitted from the build to save money and in that case why didnt the councils building control pick up on that before issuing the certificate ? There really does need to be clarity on this as without it its very hard to determine whos actually at fault here.

Then on to the matter of the licence WE says that there was no point in appealing well i.m sorry but doing that can if handled correctly can buy you up to 20 weeks during which time you can continue to trade and specialist licensing solicitors would have told them that and then we get to why they hadnt they taken out loss of licence and premises closure insurance which on a new build is something that you just wouldnt open without. And during that time you can agree a way forward with the council that would avoid them continuing with the licence suspension action.

But as i.ve said before the biggest mistake they made was in hoping this mad woman doing all the complaining would just go away because in my experience they dont and you need to be firm and proactive right from the start but this isnt the place to discuss the methods i.ve used in the past but i can assure you that had i been involved this matter would have gone away a long time ago.

What happens next will be very interesting but i cant see any way out other than AH paying to all but lift the roof and put it back on again with a good dose of soundproofing and then you come down to who pays for it well if me Eastham wants to contact me i.d be happy to explain to him how i think it could be done at no cost to anyone.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Mushrooms is only the start its what they cover them in that you have to worry about.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

I agree 100% with your first bit - about funding :)

You are about right with most of the other stuff, not to sure about the players giving £20 a week though.....

All in all, you are right in most of what you have said and I was thinking along the same lines....

Let us all hope we are wrong......


:)

Re: ASFC Academy
 

The timeline does not make sense as after the Carlisle game the GD was always going to be enough.

Saying we needed a win from out last 2 is completely incorrect, mathematically we needed a point, but in reality we knew we were safe

I know WE tried to explain we were in a different situation on 6th May than at the Fan Forum about 2 weeks early, but football wise it was either the same or better.

WE only found out the financial situation and the need for cuts on 6th May, the Tuesday after the Chesterfield match he states, and after that they had to look for cuts. However they announced to the world the academy was being closed on 6th May, it was an extremely quick decision and any conversations he states happened would have been short and little time to give any reasonable consideration.

The money from HBC wouldn't help long term as they are losing another £250k next year expected to break even for the 2026/27 season.

The Venue is an unlawful development as it was not built in accordance with planning permission, and it isn't just the sound insulation, the internal layout changed bringing sound, exits and people leaving closer to the houses.

No doubt there would still be noise complaints if it was built according to PP, but there would be more scope for a solution, e.g. even the Royal Albert Hall pulls the plug at 1030pm if bands have not completed their sets as Kensington and Chelsea Council are strict on this condition. But without a lawful development the Club has shot itself in both feet.

Re: ASFC Academy
 

Half of those very players will be the products of various clubs acadamies and will be fully aware of the value of them not just to a club but to the community that supports it and as a route for players released from further up the food chain to get a second chance of a career in the game but the way this was done the supporters wernt even given the time or opportunity to come up with a worthwhile solution.

I.m pretty sure that if the Trust can raise 20k for a mural i.m pretty certain they could have raised a similar amount to cover the 20k Academy shortfall for next season.