alternative vote - Page 8

jaysay · 26-04-2011, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Whats the point of all this? it aint rocket science as Balbus says yeh can just choose 1 candidate, be honest how many Labour/Tory voters will pick a second choice? not very many i would wager.

Totally agree cashy can you actually see me or Mossy picking Labour/Tory as forth fifth sixth or twenty second place on a ballot paper, it just wouldn't happen

Margaret Pilkington · 26-04-2011, 20:34

Cashy, you are right in one respect, but this will only work if everyone does the same thing and there will be some who will follow the letter of the law.......and something that hasn't actually been made clear...if you do choose only one candidate, would your vote be discarded as a 'spoiled vote'....if that is the case then it casts a whole different complexion on things.

The political parties need to tighten up their acts and attack the apathy that is so prevalent among voters......mainly because of the dishonesty with which politicians of all parties are regarded.
You won't get more people to vote by making the system more complicated, more open to manipulation and back room deals......we already see politicians as Snake oil salesmen.....with their hands firmly dipped into our back pockets.

cashman · 26-04-2011, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Cashy, you are right in one respect, but this will only work if everyone does the same thing and there will be some who will follow the letter of the law.......and something that hasn't actually been made clear...if you do choose only one candidate, would your vote be discarded as a 'spoiled vote'....if that is the case then it casts a whole different complexion on things.

The political parties need to tighten up their acts and attack the apathy that is so prevalent among voters......mainly because of the dishonesty with which politicians of all parties are regarded.
You won't get more people to vote by making the system more complicated, more open to manipulation and back room deals......we already see politicians as Snake oil salesmen.....with their hands firmly dipped into our back pockets.

Dont think it would need everyone Margaret,to demonstrate what a farce this A,V. is, hence why i said not many would actually choose another party, cos i credit most folk wi more sense, perhaps i'm wrong? time will tell if it happens.

Mancie · 26-04-2011, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Cashy, you are right in one respect, but this will only work if everyone does the same thing and there will be some who will follow the letter of the law.......and something that hasn't actually been made clear...if you do choose only one candidate, would your vote be discarded as a 'spoiled vote'....if that is the case then it casts a whole different complexion on things.

The political parties need to tighten up their acts and attack the apathy that is so prevalent among voters......mainly because of the dishonesty with which politicians of all parties are regarded.
You won't get more people to vote by making the system more complicated, more open to manipulation and back room deals......we already see politicians as Snake oil salesmen.....with their hands firmly dipped into our back pockets.

Why do politicians need "to tighten up thier act" ? it's down to the individual wether or not they decide to vote..the dishonesty of politics has been around since cavemen times.. it is the lazy and indifferent attitude of people who live in a relevantly prosperous society who don't vote..making the voting system "more exciting" is rubbish.

Margaret Pilkington · 27-04-2011, 08:10

Why is it down to the individual, and whether or not they choose to vote?(are you alluding to me in this statement? If you are, then say so....I have all my own teeth, you do not need to mince your words...and I have already explained my rationale for not voting..many times, if you care to read it).
You state that dishonesty has been around since caveman times...what evidence have you to support this...were you around then?

What my comment was meant to convey was, that people have lost faith in their ability to affect how the country is run, by exercising their voting privilege.....they vote but their voice is lost in the dishonesty of the politicians action(or in some cases inaction).

The electorate are far more questioning than they were in my fathers day, the media is far more manipulative than it was years ago......politicians act like celebrities instead of what they truly should be....that is, the servant of those who elected them.

If AV is taken as the way forward then it won't make politics more exciting, it will make voting more complicated(and that will turn off even more of the electorate), it will take longer to determine who runs the country, and it may be someone who you wouldn't vote for in a million years who ends up running the country.

It still isn't clear whether if AV is adopted, and you vote for just one candidate, whether it would count as a spoiled vote.
Mancie.....unlike you, I am not shackled to any particular party....I do not follow a dogma......I use my critical thinking skills to choose who will get my vote....and if no-one fits the bill then conscience forbids me from voting for the next best thing, second best is never best.

jaysay · 27-04-2011, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Why is it down to the individual, and whether or not they choose to vote?(are you alluding to me in this statement? If you are, then say so....I have all my own teeth, you do not need to mince your words...and I have already explained my rationale for not voting..many times, if you care to read it).
You state that dishonesty has been around since caveman times...what evidence have you to support this...were you around then?

What my comment was meant to convey was, that people have lost faith in their ability to affect how the country is run, by exercising their voting privilege.....they vote but their voice is lost in the dishonesty of the politicians action(or in some cases inaction).

The electorate are far more questioning than they were in my fathers day, the media is far more manipulative than it was years ago......politicians act like celebrities instead of what they truly should be....that is, the servant of those who elected them.

If AV is taken as the way forward then it won't make politics more exciting, it will make voting more complicated(and that will turn off even more of the electorate), it will take longer to determine who runs the country, and it may be someone who you wouldn't vote for in a million years who ends up running the country.

It still isn't clear whether if AV is adopted, and you vote for just one candidate, whether it would count as a spoiled vote.
Mancie.....unlike you, I am not shackled to any particular party....I do not follow a dogma......I use my critical thinking skills to choose who will get my vote....and if no-one fits the bill then conscience forbids me from voting for the next best thing, second best is never best.

It cant be a spoiled vote Margaret, by only voting for one candidate you have made your own personal choice, at the moment we have first past the post, with one person one vote, what AV will do will allow a vote to be counted numerous times, to me that just isn't democracy

Balbus · 27-04-2011, 08:45

Voting for one candidate is permissible in AV - it does not spoil your ballot paper. You only express a preference if you wish to do so. It prevents candidates being elected who have more people against them than for them.

Margaret Pilkington · 27-04-2011, 10:08

thank you for that information John and Balbus.......I still won't be voting for a change to AV......it is a very falwed system.You are right about it not being democracy John...One man(or woman)...One vote.

Personally I struggle to find one politician in which to invest my trust...so I would have a hard time trying to place who I thought was second least dishonest.

jaysay · 27-04-2011, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

thank you for that information John and Balbus.......I still won't be voting for a change to AV......it is a very falwed system.You are right about it not being democracy John...One man(or woman)...One vote.

Personally I struggle to find one politician in which to invest my trust...so I would have a hard time trying to place who I thought was second least dishonest.

If ya lived in Ossy Margaret you'd always have PB

Margaret Pilkington · 27-04-2011, 11:20

Trust PB...John...what are you saying?
I would rather gouge out my own eyeballs with a rusty nail.
The thought of that makes me shudder......not the gouging, but the trusting PB.
aaaaaaargh(runs of screaming and frothing at the mouth).

jaysay · 27-04-2011, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Trust PB...John...what are you saying?
I would rather gouge out my own eyeballs with a rusty nail.
The thought of that makes me shudder......not the gouging, but the trusting PB.
aaaaaaargh(runs of screaming and frothing at the mouth).

In the words of David Cameron, calm down, calm down,