Animals killed for training - Page 9

Wynonie Harris · 04-03-2014, 21:29

Ignorance? Have you bothered to read DinG and Margaret's posts, amongst others? Between them, they know more about medical matters and the dangers our troops face in the field than you ever will. Face it, your views have been totally trashed by cold logic, well-reasoned arguments and hard facts. Best just to quit while you're behind.

Accyexplorer · 04-03-2014, 21:32

'I personally' have a problem with inhumane treatment of food animals, I also have a problem with subjecting that animal to 'unnecessary' stress, pain, or fear or all of the aforementioned. Anesthesia is not always 100% effective, it's not unheard of for patients under anesthetic to wake and experience pain,stress and fear.....

...Also anesthetic and bullets make the meat inedible (unless you take a few of our local fast food outlets),so it makes this practice a bit wasteful from a practical perspective.

I can agree that training is better than no training.
Can we agree the training is of far greater value than the suffering? I think not.

gpick24 · 04-03-2014, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

...Also anesthetic and bullets make the meat inedible...

Can you elaborate on that? Perhaps a link or two.

Eric · 04-03-2014, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpick24

According to here - Ministry of Defence defends shooting pigs for medical training at Nato's training facilities in Jaegerspris, Denmark | Metro News - it`s not illegal. "The MoD argued that although the practice would not be illegal in the UK, approval would have to be obtained on a case-by-case basis from the Home Office."
So why go to Denmark? From the link in original post - "by participating in the Danish-led exercises twice a year rather than conducting our own, we minimise the overall number of animals used.”

Now ... that makes some sense ...

But there's another question: Why, if the practice has advantages, is it not part of the training of civilian doctors? There is certainly no shortage of beat up bodies from motor vehicle accidents ... not to mention terrorist attacks.

Eric · 04-03-2014, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpick24

Can you elaborate on that? Perhaps a link or two.

We can leave that up to C'mon.

The link thingy, not the elaboration.

gpick24 · 04-03-2014, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

We can leave that up to C'mon. The link thingy, not the elaboration.

I know I asked Accyexplorer, but I bet you can answer part of it (unless I`ve mistaken you for another member

), can shot animals be eaten?

Eric · 04-03-2014, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

That's just members jumping to assumptions,bit hypocritical but I let hem get on with it.....

....It's sad but I kind of like letting them land in ignorance

Ps don't say anything that doesn't fit into their bubble.

But if one doesn't wish members to jump to assumptions ... and I don't see the hypocrisy in that ... one might make clear that one is not showing a lack of concern for the safety of the troops, merely advocating research into training methods that do not include experiments on animals. And there is the wider question about using animals as experimental subjects. This could be addressed without going off topic. I don't believe that those who post on here are insensitive to the suffering of animals, nor do I believe that they wouldn't support research into alternatives.

Oh ... there are no cliques on here. Except maybe "The Fellowship of the Hat" ... and that is ultra-exclusive and international.

Retlaw · 04-03-2014, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

'I personally' have a problem with inhumane treatment of food animals, I also have a problem with subjecting that animal to 'unnecessary' stress, pain, or fear or all of the aforementioned. Anesthesia is not always 100% effective, it's not unheard of for patients under anesthetic to wake and experience pain,stress and fear.....

...Also anesthetic and bullets make the meat inedible (unless you take a few of our local fast food outlets),so it makes this practice a bit wasteful from a practical perspective.

I can agree that training is better than no training.
Can we agree the training is of far greater value than the suffering? I think not.

Will ti fur christ sake shut up, thas bin blatherin on fur ages, no body agrees with thi, tha like one mon I know as can talk all day, an when he's finished he's said nowt.
By the way most deer meat is obtained by shooting.

Accyexplorer · 04-03-2014, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpick24

I know I asked Accyexplorer, but I bet you can answer part of it (unless I`ve mistaken you for another member

), can shot animals be eaten?

Not these ones,their full of clotting agents as well as the other things I mentioned,They have probably been dead too long to be put back onto the food chain,I believe they are burned as medical waste (I've no links at min though)...maybe not the bullets

gpick24 · 04-03-2014, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retlaw

By the way most deer meat is obtained by shooting.

That`s where I was going Retlaw, along with Duck, pheasant, Rabbit, Goose etc.

gpick24 · 04-03-2014, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Not these ones,their full of clotting agents as well as the other things I mentioned,They have probably been dead too long to be put back onto the food chain,I believe they are burned as medical waste (I've no links at min though)

Nothing to do with anaesthetic and bullets then. I`m sure you made a point earlier that pigs that survived went on to be killed (the more the better, shows the trainings working) so how have they been dead too long?
And just because I`m in an awkward mood tonight, "They have probably been dead too long" is an assumption for which you called other members hypocrites earlier.

Accyexplorer · 04-03-2014, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Will ti fur christ sake shut up, thas bin blatherin on fur ages, no body agrees with thi, tha like one mon I know as can talk all day, an when he's finished he's said nowt.
By the way most deer meat is obtained by shooting.

Ok