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Old 13-02-2009, 18:20   #106
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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I won't be replying for the rest of the night. Don't panic. Peter Britcliffes psychic hotline is down.
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Old 13-02-2009, 18:29   #107
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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I won't be replying for the rest of the night. Don't panic. Peter Britcliffes psychic hotline is down.
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Does that mean if the labour people post tonight we only get one blinkered political view instead of the usual two ?
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Old 13-02-2009, 19:33   #108
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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I can see the chaos that would ensue. Councillors on this very forum cannot even get their facts right. I imagine you would use it as an opportunity to try and trip the Conservatives up, as usual, rather than working with them. Do you think the public should be able to go into Gordon Browns cabinet meetings? No, we have representatives for a reason. All of whom can be e-mailed. You can even freedom of information request on them.
Your reply is very interesting, I have spoken to Councillors on other councils, where they do allow questions from the public at Cabinet meetings, and their feedback has been very positive. As non Cabinet members are only very rarely allowed to speak at Cabinet meetings and then only if PB thinks the views expressed will be in accordance with is, I fail to see how having the public speak would give an opportunity to try and trip the Conservatives up. You appear to be presuming only non Conservative residents would ask questions.

You do live in very 'enclosed' little world don't you, where everyone communicates by email and would feel confident at knowing how to submit a Freedom of Information request. Surely it is more sensible for them to be able to question the relevant portfolio holder about any issues they have concerning the borough. I have seen Peter Britcliffe face hostile questioning, when he turned up at a Church and Milnshaw Area Council, because he didn't like the questions he was asked he told the residents present that they were rude. Definitely the way to win friends and influence people.

Surely debate is good, if it is stifled (as in most cases it is at meetings of Hyndburn Cabinet) then it becomes a dictatorship. In the case of the current Leader of the Council (who is a control freak) a Fascist dictatorship.

Last edited by claytonender; 13-02-2009 at 19:43.
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Old 13-02-2009, 19:45   #109
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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#to try and trip the Conservatives up.
I am and will always be a member of the general public, I do vote, I know who I usually vote for, that does not make it a permanent thing, I tow no line but my own and hope that whoever get's in will represent me to the best of their capabilities.

If a Conservative is running my ward I don't want him tripping up I want him to be as honest and fair as possible, why do party liners of all equations feel a need to always oppose? if they are in control for x number of years then surely we should all want them to be successful for all our benefits? To 'trip someone up', just because they aren't in your party surely isn't good for the majority no matter who you are?
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Old 13-02-2009, 20:12   #110
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I am and will always be a member of the general public, I do vote, I know who I usually vote for, that does not make it a permanent thing, I tow no line but my own and hope that whoever get's in will represent me to the best of their capabilities.

If a Conservative is running my ward I don't want him tripping up I want him to be as honest and fair as possible, why do party liners of all equations feel a need to always oppose? if they are in control for x number of years then surely we should all want them to be successful for all our benefits? To 'trip someone up', just because they aren't in your party surely isn't good for the majority no matter who you are?


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Old 13-02-2009, 21:06   #111
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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Your reply is very interesting, I have spoken to Councillors on other councils, where they do allow questions from the public at Cabinet meetings, and their feedback has been very positive. As non Cabinet members are only very rarely allowed to speak at Cabinet meetings and then only if PB thinks the views expressed will be in accordance with is, I fail to see how having the public speak would give an opportunity to try and trip the Conservatives up. You appear to be presuming only non Conservative residents would ask questions.

You do live in very 'enclosed' little world don't you, where everyone communicates by email and would feel confident at knowing how to submit a Freedom of Information request. Surely it is more sensible for them to be able to question the relevant portfolio holder about any issues they have concerning the borough. I have seen Peter Britcliffe face hostile questioning, when he turned up at a Church and Milnshaw Area Council, because he didn't like the questions he was asked he told the residents present that they were rude. Definitely the way to win friends and influence people.

Surely debate is good, if it is stifled (as in most cases it is at meetings of Hyndburn Cabinet) then it becomes a dictatorship. In the case of the current Leader of the Council (who is a control freak) a Fascist dictatorship.
That is very heartfelt and focused post.
Why has this situation been allowed to develope and why should one person be in control....I always understood, and now it seems that I am wrong, That in a small community that Hydburn is, The Council does not appear to be in control.
I think the word 'Cabinet' has always been associated to the real one that has existed for many years and I agree with that.
I have the choice of voting for that and still do at national level.
When I lived in Church, if did you not agree with your local representative you would stop him or her in the street and let your feelings be known, may not have been taken on board but still had the chance and the right.
I would not vote for GB and his current bunch of numpties but if I still lived in Church I would vote to get 'El Controlo' out.

I know he does not represent Church, but you know what I mean.
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Old 13-02-2009, 21:35   #112
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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That is very heartfelt and focused post.
Why has this situation been allowed to develope and why should one person be in control....I always understood, and now it seems that I am wrong, That in a small community that Hyndburn is, The Council does not appear to be in control.
I think the word 'Cabinet' has always been associated to the real one that has existed for many years and I agree with that.
I have the choice of voting for that and still do at national level.
When I lived in Church, if did you not agree with your local representative you would stop him or her in the street and let your feelings be known, may not have been taken on board but still had the chance and the right.
I would not vote for GB and his current bunch of numpties but if I still lived in Church I would vote to get 'El Controlo' out.

I know he does not represent Church, but you know what I mean.
I would hope that the people of the Church ward, which I have privilege of being the councillor, feel that they can stop me and tell me if they don't agree with me. I will certainly listen to anyone's views and do my best to help them (if it is in my remit to do so) or if I can't help them directly, I will try to point them in the right direction to get more help and advice.

I was elected to represent everyone in the ward not just those who voted for me.

It is difficult when many of the problems of the borough are ignored by the Leader of the Council and many important decisions are taken to gain political advantage, rather than for the benefit of the people with most need.

There is a maxim - 'All power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely' and unfortunately we have now reached the point in Hyndburn where this is very true.

Money (not to mention officer's time) has been wasted on one hare brained scheme after another. In the last 2 years first we had the attempt to change the name of the borough (which needed a 2/3 majority of councillors to agree too). Then when that failed we had the attempt to create a Town Council in Great Harwood - (which considering so few people had voted in the ill fated consultation in April/May 2008 ) was another expensive exercise.

Then we had the Area Council Calendars paid for by the council tax payer.
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Old 13-02-2009, 22:10   #113
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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Originally Posted by Royboy39 View Post
That is very heartfelt and focused post.
Why has this situation been allowed to develope and why should one person be in control....I always understood, and now it seems that I am wrong, That in a small community that Hydburn is, The Council does not appear to be in control.
I think the word 'Cabinet' has always been associated to the real one that has existed for many years and I agree with that.
I have the choice of voting for that and still do at national level.
When I lived in Church, if did you not agree with your local representative you would stop him or her in the street and let your feelings be known, may not have been taken on board but still had the chance and the right.
I would not vote for GB and his current bunch of numpties but if I still lived in Church I would vote to get 'El Controlo' out.

I know he does not represent Church, but you know what I mean.
Well I must say I'm shocked at that post, and you've gained my respect for making it.

As you now see there is very little chance for cross party co-operation, with councillors working for the benefit of the borough, when so many people are forced into silence.

I've mentioned before I've lived in the most expensive borough in England, which offered appalling services, and also the borough with the lowest local tax, which was an excellent place to live.

Living in Hyndburn seems akin to living under a dictatorship.

We've had one hare brained scheme after another, all of which would have been very costly, and all of which would have brought no discernible benefits to the people of Hyndburn. Thankfully through public opposition these ideas have been forced off the agenda.

Sadly ego is king at Hynburn Borough Council, and with people being denied a voice, the future looks bleak if this is allowed to continue.
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Old 13-02-2009, 23:31   #114
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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Living in Hyndburn seems akin to living under a dictatorship.

We've had one hare brained scheme after another, all of which would have been very costly, and all of which would have brought no discernible benefits to the people of Hyndburn. Thankfully through public opposition these ideas have been forced off the agenda.

Sadly ego is king at Hyndburn Borough Council, and with people being denied a voice, the future looks bleak if this is allowed to continue.
How can we live in a dictatorship where people have no voice when "Thankfully through public opposition these ideas have been forced off the agenda."???
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Old 13-02-2009, 23:59   #115
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I can see the chaos that would ensue. Councillors on this very forum cannot even get their facts right. I imagine you would use it as an opportunity to try and trip the Conservatives up, as usual, rather than working with them. Do you think the public should be able to go into Gordon Browns cabinet meetings? No, we have representatives for a reason. All of whom can be e-mailed. You can even freedom of information request on them.
Unfortunately Andrew your arguments are hollow. The Tories have removed Labour Councillors from 6 committees. They hold many others during working hours as only one or two of them work. Labour Councillors have put forward all the best ideas in the last 12 years and the Tories have put none as far as I can see. Labours biggest achievement is probably creating the best part of 600 jobs in the Globe Centre. The 2nd is the recycling scheme. What is the Tories best contribution in 12 years Andrew? Keeping the Council Tax down below a 100%!

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Old 14-02-2009, 00:13   #116
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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How can we live in a dictatorship where people have no voice when "Thankfully through public opposition these ideas have been forced off the agenda."???
Point taken, and I'll try to clarify what I meant.

To me it seems apparent that some good voices are being silenced in Hyndburn. We've been given examples in this thread where members of the public have tried to ask questions at public meetings, and they have been quashed, and dismissed as being 'rude'. (I'll try to resist a kettle/black comment here.)

From other posts on Accy Web there is evidence that councillors are being sidelined and ignored, because they aren't in the inner sanctum of the cabinet.

I've said recently in another thread that Cllr. Britcliffe is a very good councillor for his ward, and obviously the people who kept him elected for twenty six years think the same.

Sadly we have a system whereby the party who polls the most councillors forms the ruling body of the council, and then they decide who the leader will be, and that's democratically fair.

However we end up with a council leader, in a very powerful position, who wasn't elected to that position by the people of the borough as a whole.

I know that is the system we have, and there is little chance of it being changed, and the same criticism could also be levelled at national level, in that we vote for an M.P., but then have a P.M. foisted on us by the party who secured the most seats.

In Hyndburn I do think we have a council leader whose egotism clouds the issue when it comes to what is best for the borough. There have been many ludicrous, costly schemes, his pet projects, which thankfully have been shelved.

Again I feel like I'm repeating myself, but if I thought the leadership of H.B.C. was good, you'd certainly hear no complaints from me.

Living in Labour controlled Lambeth was hell, and I paid the highest Poll Tax in the land for the privilege. On the other hand when I moved to the neighbouring borough of Conservative Wandsworth, we paid the lowest Poll then Council Tax in England, and were served by a fantastic council. Similarly Labour controlled Glasgow City Council provided it's residents with excellent services, and value for money. So I do feel able to make comparisons.

To me the issue isn't party politics, it's about competence, and happily, unlike councillors who aren't part of the inner circle at H.B.C., and people at public meetings who dare to voice their opinions and questions, I can't be silenced, and this forum lets me, as well as everyone else, have their voice heard.
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Last edited by garinda; 14-02-2009 at 00:18.
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Old 14-02-2009, 00:32   #117
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 View Post
That is very heartfelt and focused post.
Why has this situation been allowed to develope and why should one person be in control....I always understood, and now it seems that I am wrong, That in a small community that Hydburn is, The Council does not appear to be in control.
I think the word 'Cabinet' has always been associated to the real one that has existed for many years and I agree with that.
I have the choice of voting for that and still do at national level.
When I lived in Church, if did you not agree with your local representative you would stop him or her in the street and let your feelings be known, may not have been taken on board but still had the chance and the right.
I would not vote for GB and his current bunch of numpties but if I still lived in Church I would vote to get 'El Controlo' out.

I know he does not represent Church, but you know what I mean.
now yer being open minded.
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Old 14-02-2009, 00:48   #118
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

Although Andrewb's friends on Facebook are all high-fivin' him for his knowing exactly which years to enquire about re: councillor's expenses, I noticed he's taken the link to his blog off his Accy Web signature. It was there a couple of days ago. I know that because I read it.

I thought I'd amuse myself by reading his thoughts on his recent actions in his blog, but alas that is no longer a possibility.

Perhaps I could apply under the Freedon of Information Act, to find out what his real reason was for doing what he did.

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Last edited by garinda; 14-02-2009 at 00:50.
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Old 14-02-2009, 00:59   #119
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

Happily I found his blog, by Googling 'Daily Telegraph Hyndburn most expensive council tax'.

Sadly he seems to have been too busy to post much of interest on there recently.
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Old 14-02-2009, 03:42   #120
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Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?

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Labour Councillors have put forward all the best ideas in the last 12 years and the Tories have put none as far as I can see. Labours biggest achievement is probably creating the best part of 600 jobs in the Globe Centre. The 2nd is the recycling scheme. What is the Tories best contribution in 12 years Andrew? Keeping the Council Tax down below a 100%!

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Like to blow your own trumpet? The Conservatives haven't put any good ideas forward for 12 years? Give me a break. As for dictatorship, it's a funny one, where the opposition give all the ideas. I think you people calling it a dictatorship insult the people suffering under real dictators. Council is democratically elected.

Labour in Hyndburn are the party that will just consistently try and trip the Conservatives up at every step. One day you will realise that it's constructive, and will win you more votes, if you admit where the council has achieved, what the Conservatives do well, and how you'll work together. You're unbelievable until then and won't be winning control. While under your stewardship Labour are a sinking ship - your hatred creates errors of judgement.

Have you apologised to Peter Britcliffe for the incorrect accusations in post one yet?
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