Health and Social Care Bill

gynn · 18-02-2012, 08:10

So let's do a quick check on who is for and against the Government's proposed reform of the NHS:-

AGAINST: British Medical Association, Royal College of Nursing, Royal College of Midwives, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, Royal College of GPs, Royal College of Radiologists, House of Lords, most back bench MPs and some of the Cabinet.

FOR: David Cameron, Andrew Lansley, George Osborne and .....er that's it.

Hmmmm. The words "hole" and "stop digging" come to mind!

jaysay · 18-02-2012, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gynn

So let's do a quick check on who is for and against the Government's proposed reform of the NHS:-

AGAINST: British Medical Association, Royal College of Nursing, Royal College of Midwives, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, Royal College of GPs, Royal College of Radiologists, House of Lords, most back bench MPs and some of the Cabinet.

FOR: David Cameron, Andrew Lansley, George Osborne and .....er that's it.

Hmmm. The words "hole" and "stop digging" come to mind!

Well as you know I've always been in favour of the reform off the NHS because its top heavy with pen pushers, but this last few weeks I have contacted a lot of people I have come into contact with over the last 30 years or so within the NHS, some of them very much the same political persuasion as myself and although some of the things proposed are a step forward ie GP involvement, the overall proposals seem to be flowed, I have long been an advocate of less government intervention, but it isn't going to happen, time for a rethink, me thinks

Margaret Pilkington · 18-02-2012, 13:20

When, in the past, have politicians listened to anything that made sense....or for that matter anything from those people who know how the NHS runs best???
I think.....NEVER springs to mind.
As for GP's being in control of the commissioning of services........that is about the worst idea possible.(in my opinion)
GP's seem to have hardly any time to see sick patients as it is....this is going to leave them with less time to see patients, but more money for not seeing them.

Gordon Booth · 18-02-2012, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

GP's seem to have hardly any time to see sick patients as it is....this is going to leave them with less time to see patients, but more money for not seeing them.

Apparently it won't be a problem, Margaret.
There are companies specialising in administration waiting in the wings.The GPs will employ them to run things so in effect it's more privatization- more of the NHS run for profit and as the NHS staff who do it now probably won't be made redundant just another layer of cost.

jaysay · 18-02-2012, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

As for GP's being in control of the commissioning of services........that is about the worst idea possible.(in my opinion)
GP's seem to have hardly any time to see sick patients as it is....this is going to leave them with less time to see patients, but more money for not seeing them.

Since when have doctors done that kind of work Margaret, GPs aren't one man bands anymore, I have a small GP sugary near my home two doctors Father and Daughter and quite a lot of support staff who do all the referrals etcetera, practice nurses and there are district nurses and community matrons set up, in fact I called out the CMs yesterday and she arrived in my home in less than 45 mins. Whats required is less red tape you know that stuff that keeps a ward sister sat behind her desk from the start to finish of her shift, ticking boxes for pen pushers to evaluate then file away for posterity.

Mancie · 18-02-2012, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I called out the CMs yesterday and she arrived in my home in less than 45 mins. Whats required is less red tape you know that stuff that keeps a ward sister sat behind her desk from the start to finish of her shift, ticking boxes for pen pushers to evaluate then file away for posterity.

And how do you think you had such a good response to your call?..it's likely because there was someone on the other end taking calls.. nothing to do with red tape or ticking boxes.

gynn · 19-02-2012, 14:16

The Prime Minister is hosting a discussion tomorrow to see the best way forward on the Health and Social Care Bill.

It gives him the opportunity to win over all those who oppose the Bill..... Yes? Well No.

He hasn't invited anyone who disagrees with him. So the major professional groups that will be responsible for implementing the changes have been left out.

Hardly the way to win an argument Mr C!

Margaret Pilkington · 19-02-2012, 14:58

No change there then. It has always been this way. Doesn't matter who is in power.
It is worse when you get asked and your opinions are ignored.

jaysay · 19-02-2012, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gynn

The Prime Minister is hosting a discussion tomorrow to see the best way forward on the Health and Social Care Bill.

It gives him the opportunity to win over all those who oppose the Bill..... Yes? Well No.

He hasn't invited anyone who disagrees with him. So the major professional groups that will be responsible for implementing the changes have been left out.

Hardly the way to win an argument Mr C!

Its going to be a very good meeting, plenty of progress, all in favour and three hands shoot up, passed; said we were right didn't I Andrew and Nick

lettie · 19-02-2012, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

No change there then. It has always been this way. Doesn't matter who is in power.
It is worse when you get asked and your opinions are ignored.

That's the thing.... Not only do we rarely get asked our opinion, but when we do, it is completely ignored. This is not just at Government level but also at local level.

The fact is that we cannot afford the NHS, it is a bottomless pit. As science moves on and new procedures come to the fore, the NHS starts to provide them. In it's inception it was a lifesaving service providing emergency care to those in dire need. Now it is all things to all men with a population whose expectations of the service increase with every new procedure. Something, somewhere, has to give but..........here's the thing. A Government who privatises the NHS will be unpopular with the voting public and will therefore lose votes. So successive Governments have picked away at the NHS, privatising services such as Domestics, Laundry, Pharmacy, Procurement, Buildings and building services (PFI), Portering, Transport etc. All the while swearing blind that they are not privatising the NHS. The NHS will be privatised by stealth, each government picking away at it until there is nothing left.

The changes that successive Governments bring in, bring more managers but these managers have no real power. More documentation, tick boxes and people who trained bloody hard to provide care but are spending most of their working day pen pushing. It doesn't matter that the patient complains of not getting any care because..... this tick box says that they did.... and the target was met.

I am absolutely against these changes but as my opinion won't be asked (due to the fact that it just won't be, and also that I 'let fly' on the last questionnaire that I was sent

) I will wait with bated breath for the outcome of this Bill and hope to God that I get 6 numbers in the meantime..

jaysay · 19-02-2012, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lettie

That's the thing.... Not only do we rarely get asked our opinion, but when we do, it is completely ignored. This is not just at Government level but also at local level.

The fact is that we cannot afford the NHS, it is a bottomless pit. As science moves on and new procedures come to the fore, the NHS starts to provide them. In it's inception it was a lifesaving service providing emergency care to those in dire need. Now it is all things to all men with a population whose expectations of the service increase with every new procedure. Something, somewhere, has to give but..........here's the thing. A Government who privatises the NHS will be unpopular with the voting public and will therefore lose votes. So successive Governments have picked away at the NHS, privatising services such as Domestics, Laundry, Pharmacy, Procurement, Buildings and building services (PFI), Portering, Transport etc. All the while swearing blind that they are not privatising the NHS. The NHS will be privatised by stealth, each government picking away at it until there is nothing left.

The changes that successive Governments bring in, bring more managers but these managers have no real power. More documentation, tick boxes and people who trained bloody hard to provide care but are spending most of their working day pen pushing. It doesn't matter that the patient complains of not getting any care because..... this tick box says that they did.... and the target was met.

I am absolutely against these changes but as my opinion won't be asked (due to the fact that it just won't be, and also that I 'let fly' on the last questionnaire that I was sent

) I will wait with bated breath for the outcome of this Bill and hope to God that I get 6 numbers in the meantime..

Why couldn't I have put it like that lettie, thats probably the best post I've read on the NHS on AccyWed ever and from some one who is actually curently involved at the sharp end great post

Mancie · 19-02-2012, 23:04

Hospitals have already got the go ahead to have up to 48% of beds for the private sector..anyone who has used the railways will have walked past the first class coaches and seen them empty.. then have to find a seat in the packed out normal class..whats to say it won't end up the same in hospitals?.. these "reforms" are nonsense.

Margaret Pilkington · 20-02-2012, 07:04

The reforms aren't nonsense....they are dangerous. That is why so many in the medical profession....those who you could say, know the system best....are against its implementation. They aren't worried about themselves, they are worried for their patients.

jaysay · 20-02-2012, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The reforms aren't nonsense....they are dangerous. That is why so many in the medical profession....those who you could say, know the system best....are against its implementation. They aren't worried about themselves, they are worried for their patients.

As lettie said Margaret,the NHS is a bottomless pit, which, if it could would swallow up the whole of britain's GDP and still have room for more, but when an hospital has 15 to 20 executives and each with a personal assistant somethings wrong. its a well know that there is a huge amount of waste within the NHS, tackle that by all means, but let people with clinical knowledge make the decisions not politicians in Whitehall and that doesn't change with the colour of the party in power

ToffeeGuy · 20-02-2012, 17:58

Anyone seen the Lansley footage today on his way into Downing Street? Classic. Bet he'll go straight to the door by car from now on.

In case you missed it. Warning! This link is to the Daily Mail.
'Codswallop! Don't lie to me Mr Lansley': Fury of pensioner who confronted Health Secretary outside NHS meeting | Mail Online