The Law's an Ass - Page 5

blazey · 11-09-2008, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Ah..talking about "sides" so soon into your career..not a good start.you've already put your colours up on your sig.. impartial?

Well you talked about the defence... and I said I couldn't care which side I was on as long as I get to be part of solving the problems i'm paid to deal with.

I'm not impartial, I am a human being. I set standards for myself and I'm certainly not a relativist.

For me my politics is independent of my view on the law. Politics is simply a matter of preference, whereas the law is to be followed, whether it be literally or liberally, whatever produces the better consequences.

I repeat that I am only human, so I am not perfection nor do I think I am even close to it. What else can I say? My God is my judge, not you or any other member of this forum.

Mancie · 11-09-2008, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey

Well you talked about the defence... and I said I couldn't care which side I was on as long as I get to be part of solving the problems i'm paid to deal with.

I'm not impartial, I am a human being. I set standards for myself and I'm certainly not a relativist.

For me my politics is independent of my view on the law. Politics is simply a matter of preference, whereas the law is to be followed, whether it be literally or liberally, whatever produces the better consequences.

I repeat that I am only human, so I am not perfection nor do I think I am even close to it. What else can I say? My God is my judge, not you or any other member of this forum.

classic..PMSL..that is superb .

blazey · 11-09-2008, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

classic..PMSL..that is superb .

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to get me to say.

I'm a 19yr old law student who votes for the tory party, I'm catholic, I dye my hair from blonde to dark brown, I sit on my laptop most of the time and to be quite frank that is about it. Nothing you can gain from me so why do you bother trying to get a reaction out of me?

Are you really that bored?

Mancie · 11-09-2008, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to get me to say.

I'm a 19yr old law student who votes for the tory party, I'm catholic, I dye my hair from blonde to dark brown, I sit on my laptop most of the time and to be quite frank that is about it. Nothing you can gain from me so why do you bother trying to get a reaction out of me?

Are you really that bored?

I'm not trying to get you to say anything..and I could do without any reaction..if you are a Tory and talk as if you are more a Liberal I will take it on..I don't make any distinction of hair style or age.. lets get this sorted so there is no confusion from any side.. I hate the Tories.. wether it's you or anyone.. I belive I have good reason for that feeling.. now it's all sorted and we all know were we stand.

blazey · 11-09-2008, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

I'm not trying to get you to say anything..and I could do without any reaction..if you are a Tory and talk as if you are more a Liberal I will take it on..I don't make any distinction of hair style or age.. lets get this sorted so there is no confusion from any side.. I hate the Tories.. wether it's you or anyone.. I belive I have good reason for that feeling.. now it's all sorted and we all know were we stand.

OK so you just hate me for being a tory voter? I do have some liberal beliefs, mainly because I don't let the party dictate how I think, but I relate most of my views to tory ideas. A lot of my feelings probably could relate to labour too, amongst many other parties.

I find it sad that you dislike me just because of the party I vote for. How would you decide whether you liked me if I didn't declare my politics?

blazey · 11-09-2008, 01:31

My fees to go to uni last year were £3070.
This year they're £3145.

Who introduced them? Labour
Who increased them? Labour
Who plans to continue increasing them? Labour

Perhaps I am missing the point, but Labour are currently limiting my access to uni. I have a job and I still can't afford to live comfortably at university without having to worry about money. By the end of this upcoming academic year I'll be in £15,000 debt.

£15,000 debt that I wouldn't be in if the government didn't introduce fee's in order to give the impression that it was making studying easier. Why was it that introducing fee's was their solution to a class related problem? I can't see the sense in that at all.

How can we get the working class kids into uni? I know, let's introduce fees.

More students get to go to uni now but it hasn't really solved any problems whatsoever.

polly · 11-09-2008, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey

My fees to go to uni last year were £3070.
This year they're £3145.

Who introduced them? Labour
Who increased them? Labour
Who plans to continue increasing them? Labour

Perhaps I am missing the point, but Labour are currently limiting my access to uni. I have a job and I still can't afford to live comfortably at university without having to worry about money. By the end of this upcoming academic year I'll be in £15,000 debt.

£15,000 debt that I wouldn't be in if the government didn't introduce fee's in order to give the impression that it was making studying easier. Why was it that introducing fee's was their solution to a class related problem? I can't see the sense in that at all.

How can we get the working class kids into uni? I know, let's introduce fees.

More students get to go to uni now but it hasn't really solved any problems whatsoever.

Please clarify, as a Conservative are you advocating Free University places for all or only for those from low incomes?

Mancie · 11-09-2008, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by polly

Please clarify, as a Conservative are you advocating Free University places for all or only for those from low incomes?

I'll jump in.. of course the tories will advocte free university places.. because they don't have to pay from their taxes.. or pay very little..if its going to be free then why should the taxpayer pay for the boys from Eton.. that have been educated by the rich parents in private.. get free places at university?

polly · 11-09-2008, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

I'll jump in.. of course the tories will advocte free university places.. because they don't have to pay from their taxes.. or pay very little..if its going to be free then why should the taxpayer pay for the boys from Eton.. that have been educated by the rich parents in private.. get free places at university?

Just let her answer for herself, I think her reply could be very illuminating and I look forward to hearing it

Neil · 11-09-2008, 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

if its going to be free then why should the taxpayer pay for the boys from Eton.. that have been educated by the rich parents in private.. get free places at university?

While the boys are at Eton and not an education authority funded school, is that not saving the taxpayer money?

If University is going to be free then it should be free for all those that wish to go, in a similar way to high school.

How this could work in practice I am not sure as I don't know how universities are currently funded.

WillowTheWhisp · 11-09-2008, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey

I'm never going to agree that there should be one set of laws for one group of people and another for people we don't like.

That isn't what I would ask for, but there are often 'mitigating circumstances' which are, and should be, taken into account. No two cases are identical and some are more different than others.

For example a lorry driver fell asleep at the wheel, ran into another vehicle and killed someone. Should he be prosecuted? The initial reaction of most people would be "Of course he should!" - but he isn't going to be. The reason why is that he suffers from sleep apnoea and was unaware that he suffers from sleep apnoea. He may have 'dozed off' and woken up hundreds of times before and never even noticed. I know 2 people who do the same and they are totally unaware that they have ever been asleep.

This case of the woman and her flat shouldn't be affected by the fact that the absentee tenant is a rapist; but it should, in my opinion, be affected by the fact that the power was off in the flat and food was rotting, plus the fact that she did all she could to make sure his belongings were safe. Her actions were done without malice and I feel it should be viewed differently than for instance if she'd just chucked all his stuff in a skip.

jaysay · 11-09-2008, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

I'll jump in.. of course the tories will advocte free university places.. because they don't have to pay from their taxes.. or pay very little..if its going to be free then why should the taxpayer pay for the boys from Eton.. that have been educated by the rich parents in private.. get free places at university?

You mean people like Harriet Harman, Mancie

blazey · 11-09-2008, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by polly

Please clarify, as a Conservative are you advocating Free University places for all or only for those from low incomes?

For all.

The tax player pays to educate everyone who goes to prison so why not everyone who wants to go to University? There will still be admissions criteria and money goes to University from all sorts of private funding. For example the City Solicitor's Education Trust gives funding to law departments all over the country, and I am sure there are many other funds for other subjects.

Places would be more limited but the whole point of University is that the brightest and most able get the better qualifications. I'm sure I'm not the only person who read that the value of a degree has actually dropped recently due to the numbers of people now able to get degree's.

It's nice that everyone can go to uni if they want to but what really is the point of it if there aren't enough graduate rate jobs to go around? It's just getting people into debt just to end up in jobs they could have gone to anyway. To the extent that McDonalds is in the 100 Top Gradute Recruiters guide and has been for years.

So yes, I would close the doors to university a little if it meant it was cheaper and made my degree more worthwhile.

blazey · 11-09-2008, 23:23

Just to add, at university I don't know who is from a family on a low income like mine or who is from a rich family. I just think everyone is after the same thing as me and that is a good education.

I find the class thing a bit of an excuse to complain about something. I couldn't care less what class people are from, it's never been a big issue in my house even though we have a very low income. I've never heard any of my family blame a politician for their lifestyle so I find it hard to associate lifestyle with anything other than own personal choice.

blazey · 11-09-2008, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

I'll jump in.. of course the tories will advocte free university places.. because they don't have to pay from their taxes.. or pay very little..if its going to be free then why should the taxpayer pay for the boys from Eton.. that have been educated by the rich parents in private.. get free places at university?

You seem to have a confusing stereotypical idea of what a conservative is...

If a person can afford private education for their children, their income must be quite substantially higher than the 'ordinary' or average income. Surely the more you earn the more tax you end up paying?

It's not just the working class person that pays tax is it!? You have completely just lost me.