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Gordon Booth · 08-06-2015, 18:29

The ordinary MPs will have a free vote( although vote No and it won't do their careers any good).
It's only Government Ministers who have to commit and vote Yes if they want to remain Ministers- Collective Responsibility, a rule of all Governments.

In my heart I would love to leave the EU and go it alone but lets face reality-

We're a little nation in a world of big ones.
We haven't got a viable Army any more. We've hardly any Navy left- we've even had to borrow France's aircraft carrier. If we ever get our own carriers we've no planes for them. The RAF is just a shadow, we even struggle to keep 4 old Tornadoes flying in Iraq. We couldn't do the Falklands again,we couldn't do Iraq again(the Yanks had to help us out even then), we couldn't do Afghanistan again(the Yanks had to help us out even then). Without the Yanks we'd have been speaking German( or Russian ) for many years now. The Russians are flying round our coasts just for a laugh, checking if we still have any planes flying.
Foreigners own our water, electricity, ports, car plants, etc.

On our own the EU would soon freeze our banking system out and wreck it(wouldn't you, they already want to take the business to Germany).
We're in it too deep already, get out and the EU will screw us every which way, to teach us a lesson and to warn any of the other 27 not to get ideas of grandeur. The Yanks have already said if we're out they'll drop us and pal up more with Germany( they know who runs the EU).
Some of the big foreign companies will pull out, it's cheaper to trade within a 27 country block with one set of rules(however complicated)than to trade with them from a single country with a different set of rules.

'Trade with the Commonwealth'? They still see us as Imperialists and can buy anything they need from China and Asia, just as we do so we couldn't sell them stuff we don't make any more. They don't want Broad Oak cotton or steam locomotives. We couldn't supply them anyway.

Cameron may well get some of the concessions he wants, if only because Merkel wants some of the same things and will be able to blame us for it.
I hope he does, if he does and we vote to stay in we'll have a chance of progress.
If he doesn't and we stay in we'll be a spent force.
If we vote out and get out( I'm still not sure if Cameron will find a way round that) we'll be a little squeak in a world of shouters.

I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. I'll probably vote to stay in and weep as I do it.

08-06-2015, 18:29	#7
Gordon Booth Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,402 Liked: 715 times Rep Power: 46611	Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!! The ordinary MPs will have a free vote( although vote No and it won't do their careers any good). It's only Government Ministers who have to commit and vote Yes if they want to remain Ministers- Collective Responsibility, a rule of all Governments. In my heart I would love to leave the EU and go it alone but lets face reality- We're a little nation in a world of big ones. We haven't got a viable Army any more. We've hardly any Navy left- we've even had to borrow France's aircraft carrier. If we ever get our own carriers we've no planes for them. The RAF is just a shadow, we even struggle to keep 4 old Tornadoes flying in Iraq. We couldn't do the Falklands again,we couldn't do Iraq again(the Yanks had to help us out even then), we couldn't do Afghanistan again(the Yanks had to help us out even then). Without the Yanks we'd have been speaking German( or Russian ) for many years now. The Russians are flying round our coasts just for a laugh, checking if we still have any planes flying. Foreigners own our water, electricity, ports, car plants, etc. On our own the EU would soon freeze our banking system out and wreck it(wouldn't you, they already want to take the business to Germany). We're in it too deep already, get out and the EU will screw us every which way, to teach us a lesson and to warn any of the other 27 not to get ideas of grandeur. The Yanks have already said if we're out they'll drop us and pal up more with Germany( they know who runs the EU). Some of the big foreign companies will pull out, it's cheaper to trade within a 27 country block with one set of rules(however complicated)than to trade with them from a single country with a different set of rules. 'Trade with the Commonwealth'? They still see us as Imperialists and can buy anything they need from China and Asia, just as we do so we couldn't sell them stuff we don't make any more. They don't want Broad Oak cotton or steam locomotives. We couldn't supply them anyway. Cameron may well get some of the concessions he wants, if only because Merkel wants some of the same things and will be able to blame us for it. I hope he does, if he does and we vote to stay in we'll have a chance of progress. If he doesn't and we stay in we'll be a spent force. If we vote out and get out( I'm still not sure if Cameron will find a way round that) we'll be a little squeak in a world of shouters. I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. I'll probably vote to stay in and weep as I do it.