Must admit Bagpuss, have got a little lost in this thread, just trying to find the maps that's all for yer'. Just that Hilden Group chairman has a lot of knowledge with regard to streams in Ossy, etc., as probably owned most of them in the past, and confirmed where it started etc. Did glaze over a little when he was telling me the history of it all, but what is the ultimate answer you are looking for .. sorry, know probably being a little thick here.