[Gayle]

This thread has raised an awful lot of issues, some of which contradict others. I’ve given it a lot of thought and slept on it to try and put my views into a reasonable order. Just as an aside Wynonie, this sort of emotive issue is why I wouldn’t make a good MP – too many factors to confuse the issue - in future, I think I’ll stick to potholes on Union Road.

Anyway, to clarify my thoughts – except that now that I’ve written it all out it’s not clarification, it’s a huge amount of contradictions – so apologies before you start reading.

1. my own personal views on discrimination

I do not discriminate against any single person and treat everybody as individuals – some I like and some I don’t like. In an ideal world (which I realise doesn’t exist) there would be no discrimination and therefore no need for discrimination laws. People would take other people for what they are and not judge them on colour, sexual preference or gender.

However, Willow raised an interesting point about BNP – I find everything that group stands for to be abhorrent and would love to stop them from existing. The problem is that if I preach that everyone should be free to think what they want to think then by my own definition I am allowing them that freedom too. So contradiction number one – I hate discrimination in every form, yet I would clearly be happy to discriminate against anyone who discriminates against other people.

2. the real world of discrimination

The real world, as Wynonie points out, contains discrimination all around us based on colour, sexual preference and gender, and other factors. Laws should exist so that people can not discriminate against anyone else based on any of those factors. The laws should exist to provide a level playing field and to allow everyone freedom of choice. The laws should be about ensuring that no one is discriminated against and so inciting racial or sexual orientation hatred should not be allowed. However, there is a fine line between thinking racially or putting up a sign saying ‘no blacks/gays/etc in here’. Going back to human rights issues you can not stop some people from thinking those things. I don’t like people thinking those things but the fact is that some people do. I agree that they should not be allowed to put up signs of that nature. Education and understanding are essential to break down these barriers. So contradiction number two – I do not like the thought that we need discrimination laws and yet I accept that they are necessary.

3. the catholic churches (or any other religion’s) teachings vs government edicts

I have a real problem with the government imposing itself on any religious group, (particularly one which has 1000s of years of teaching under its belt), if you start down that route you have to insist that women are allowed to become priests, gay couples can get married in a church, women should be allowed into the inner rooms in a mosque, etc. In other words you have to completely pick apart the basic cornerstones of each and every faith to a point where there is nothing left except a group of people who get together every Sunday morning for a sing-song.
If you start unpicking the basic teachings then surely you will end up a point where there is nothing left.

At a time when we in the UK are losing our family support systems the church is a much needed place for a lot of people. Other people have argued that the lack of faith in the country is one of the main contributors to the lack of structure that we have so surely we should be bolstering up the faiths and support churches more giving us a sense of belonging and a structure.

Contradiction number three – I agree that there are many instances where the church is outdated but I am just a bit worried about where it will all stop.

So finally, back to the original question on this thread

4. should the catholic church be forced to promote gay adoptions?

Well, gay adoptions are not against the law – the government has already ensured that gay couples can adopt within the law. There are agencies that work with gay couples to allow them to adopt and so if a gay couple wished to adopt they would have many places to which they can turn. The catholic church is not saying that they would stop gay adoptions taking place, they are simply saying that they will not facilitate them. For that reason, and with the caveat that they don’t actively oppose gay adoption, then I see no reason to change their stance. By imposing laws ‘forcing’ people to go against their beliefs you give rise to the whole homophobic and racist groups out there. It fuels their arguments that the country is being diluted and that it will no longer be their own. This in turn allows groups like BNP to stand up and gain support.

So, final contradiction, although less so, I personally do not like discrimination however I do feel that the catholic church should be allowed to maintain their beliefs on this issue.


Finally, Wynonie, you asked if I feel that homophobia is different to racism. Well, no I think that both are the same and equally repulsive. I accept that I made a mistake with an earlier phrase that said race discrimination and gay discrimination are different – they aren’t, they’re both exactly the same and equally wrong. However, what I meant to say is that being gay is slightly (and note slightly) different to being born with a brown skin – I’m not saying it’s a lifestyle choice because it isn’t, I realise that ‘gayness’ can not be taught. However, there are a number of gay people who are still ‘in the closet’ for want of a better phrase – they themselves are hiding their ‘gayness’ – yet being born of asian or black parents is not something that you can hide. What I’m saying is that it is not me who is defining that there is a difference, it is gay people themselves who choose to not come out. If more people were more open about it perhaps there would not be the same stigmas attached to it in the first place.


So, two sides of A4 later and all I really know is that this issue is massive, the people who took the decisions to introduce the law probably didn’t go into it lightly and that I could not have done it myself.