[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

Right I will take your answers in order.
1) God and other christians have maimed, slaughtered, executed, raped, pillaged and massacred in the past so it's ok for modern christians to do the same? Hmm touch of hypocrisy methinks.

2) Yes the question is academic but you are arguing in favour of the death penalty so it is a possibility that has to be considered. Ipso Facto I am still awaiting the answer.

3)Try this address here NationMaster - Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country
this gives a list of the main nations and there murder rates.

4) Right so executing a criminal for 1 offence will act as a serious deterrent to stop them killing 2, 3 or even more times. Hmmm yes I see your argument there.

I was only following your definition of murder, and by following that I am correct in calling capital punishment murder by the state.

Yes they may have been found guilty in a court of law, yes it may be a jury of peers, however the prosecution when it is pushing for the death penalty glorifies all the lurid detail in almost pornographic detail and is no better than a tabloid paper. All the details would have come out in the trial itself so why they need to dwell on it is pure sensationalism.

I don’t recall saying that it was OK for modern Christians to kill just because it happened in Biblical times. If you are going to put words in my mouth then do be so kind as to put the right words in.

Your link now puts some meat on the bones of your statement.

However what the statistics don’t say is that the US has a gun culture that is written into their constitution so the means of committing murder are more readily available. If you are going to compare the UK with another country you should at least compare it with a country that has similar gun laws that we have. What about Denmark, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Greece, Japan, Saudi Arabia etc.

The other point you have to take into account is the actual population. A large proportion of the population in the States consists of African descendants and Hispanic. Both groups traditionally did not view life in the same way as we do now. Life was cheap to them and it takes many generations to eradicate that attitude. Look what is happening in Africa today.

In fact many years ago life was cheap in the UK.

And then the USA was won, not with the plough but with the gun.

I have yet to see a dead person kill another. No facetious remarks about how a person having died from the Ebola virus can infect a living person and cause their death please. If we had capital punishment today it wouldn’t stop the hardened criminals but it would make many fringe criminals think again. Maybe not right away but as the hangings mounted up the message would go out.

Capital punishment was a lawful act as decreed by Parliament – therefore it cannot be murder. Murder is premeditated UNLAWFUL killing. So you are wrong to call capital punishment murder by the state. Lawful killing yes, murder no.

To get at the truth it may be necessary to reveal all the gory details. However in the UK and in real life the prosecution doesn’t push for the death penalty. Any judge worthy of the name would slap them down if they tried. You’ve been watching too many American court dramas. The prosecution’s job is to present the evidence in an attempt to prove the accused guilty. The defence’s job is to counter that evidence, if it can and establish the innocence of the accused. But the onus is on the prosecution to prove their case. The defendant is innocent until proven guilty. The jury decides on the verdict after hearing all the evidence and the judge passes sentence. No one tells the judge what that sentence is to be except the tariffs as laid down by Parliament.

As a citizen of this land you are perfectly entitled to attend a murder trial or just about any other trial for that matter and see what happens in real life. I have and its not a bit like portrayed on TV and in films. You don’t get some smart Alec barrister presenting a coup de grâce to get the defendant off. You don’t get the drama.