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g jones · 26-03-2008, 14:25

Don't slag me off for an error. I apologise to you and others. A lot of figures to digest. All I am after is the truth - I don't mislead people and I am not incompetent. It took a lot to pull this figures together as records are scattered all over. As you found when you pulled some dodgy figures out.

I appreciate you pointing out I had miscalculated the %. There was a couple more errors as well. Band C is 8/9th not 6/9ths as as correctly stated lower. Don't give me maths lessons when you state 6/9s is different to 9/9ths in % increase terms. Well the Council adds 4.95% it does so across the board.

Here are the accurate figures mark 2 (only % have changed)

1999
Net Spend £9,255,000
Government Grant (-£0.58m HRA Benefits) £5,766,000
Council Tax/other income £3,489,000
Band D £141.68
Outstanding Debts £11,785,000

2006
Outstanding Debts £26million
Council House sales net profit £12million
(note £1million borrowing = annual £100,000-£120,000 debt approx on old fixed rate loans at 10%+)

2008
Total Spend £15,015,000
Government Grant £9,700,000 (-£1.1 for Concessionary fares +£450,000 Council Half Bus Pass Bus Scheme scrapped)
Government Grant Net £9,050,000
Council Tax/other income £5,315,000
Outstanding Debts £16,000,000 approx after Council House sales. Interest saving £950,000 on loans payed off.

Notes
1. On Council Tax - other income - it's hard to judge as other income varies. Council House sales have claimed to around £.5million, losses on Leisure Services £250k+ each of the last two years. Pensions have gone up.

However in 2000 the Council raised £3,489,000. In 2008 it will raise £5,315,000 in local taxes. My calculator says +52.33% (not 65%).

This is a rough analysis because of the variables such as debt repayments have gone up before the Tories sold off Council Housing and wiped £12million off saving £1million a year in interest payments...

.... what's actually on their CT bill....

2. Band D - Everyone uses Band D where all homes or no homes are Band D in an area. It is 9/9ths - the full Council Tax. Band C is 8/9ths etc... Its all proportionate except Bands F G H...
BAND PROPORTION
A 6/9
B 7/9
C 8/9
E 11/9
F 13/9
G 15/9
H 18/9

Hyndburn Council Tax

2000/2001 - Band D - £151.53 (Band C 8/9th)
2001 - Band D - £163.50
2002 - Band D - £168.08
2003 - Band D - £174.63
2004 - Band D - £181.44
2005 - Band D - £190.28
(don't have to hand 2006/2007)
2008/2009 - Band D - £219.00 =

9 budgets, 1 Labour Budget / 8 Tory budgets - £151.53/£219.?? = +44.95%

3. RPI v CPI???????? 37% or 16%
Norman Lamont (Tory) introduced CPI (known as RPIX) in 1992. Interest rates and Government/Business policy is set by it. My wage rise is set by it.Everybody uses it as it's more accurate. Only corrupt politicians misquote using RPI to 'look good'. IF RPI (37%) was used I would be around 15-20% poorer that 1997. Obviously completely untrue and why no-one uses RPI.

4. Daily Telegraph Study
As above. Band A or Band D it is the same %. More importantly The Daily Telegraph used Band D (not that it mattered) for all authorities as this is the Full (9/9ths) Council Tax. Other authorities in Lancashire with identical County Council and Police charges are much cheaper.

5. The Conservatives have cut services by 40% between 2004-2008 -

And the Council was so bankrupt in 2003 Ian Ormerod had to dismiss/pay off all senior management and begin a huge redundancy programme so there was enough money to pay the remaining workers. Another lot of cuts not mentioned...

6. The Council has been massively funded by Govt.
This has paid for services the Council, was already or may have provided otherwise, therefore making savings

+70% in the basic grant.
+£12million SRB
+£3.4million ERDF
+£7million NRF
+£45million so far ELEVATE (The Council tax payer previously paid for Housing refurbishments)
+£2million Lancashire Childrens Fund
+£1.2million Home Office Funding
+£1million DEFRA
+£3.9million is (flogging off the family silver) asset sales given to the Council prior to the Tories (next to nothing left BTW)
+Lottery - Council given direct funding for anything from the Lottery £1.5million rising
+£7.5million (over last 3 years) Gordon Brown handout for ANY capital expenditure the Council wants (this is why we have stopped borrowing - heaven help us if a) GB pulls the plug on this b) DavidC pulls the plug on this
+£4million Bonus Revenue fund from Gordon Brown this year and the next 3.
+£22million LEGI Fund Bburn/Hyndburn/Burnley
+£0.6million per year Council House sales and rising

....there will be more.... this is what I can remember

Also the Council has benefited from
+£35million to do up Council Houses
+£18million 2x Health Centres (I put that because Conservatives at the last election claimed they built them)
+£1.2million Concessionary fares
+ The College.... and on and on.....

You can see how much is being wasted. It is the most expensive Council in Britain & probably the worst given it is so well funded...

26-03-2008, 14:25	#30
g jones Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,125 Liked: 14 times Rep Power: 732	An Apology to Cyfr - 2 main headline figures wrong Don't slag me off for an error. I apologise to you and others. A lot of figures to digest. All I am after is the truth - I don't mislead people and I am not incompetent. It took a lot to pull this figures together as records are scattered all over. As you found when you pulled some dodgy figures out. I appreciate you pointing out I had miscalculated the %. There was a couple more errors as well. Band C is 8/9th not 6/9ths as as correctly stated lower. Don't give me maths lessons when you state 6/9s is different to 9/9ths in % increase terms. Well the Council adds 4.95% it does so across the board. Here are the accurate figures mark 2 (only % have changed) 1999 Net Spend £9,255,000 Government Grant (-£0.58m HRA Benefits) £5,766,000 Council Tax/other income £3,489,000 Band D £141.68 Outstanding Debts £11,785,000 2006 Outstanding Debts £26million Council House sales net profit £12million (note £1million borrowing = annual £100,000-£120,000 debt approx on old fixed rate loans at 10%+) 2008 Total Spend £15,015,000 Government Grant £9,700,000 (-£1.1 for Concessionary fares +£450,000 Council Half Bus Pass Bus Scheme scrapped) Government Grant Net £9,050,000 Council Tax/other income £5,315,000 Outstanding Debts £16,000,000 approx after Council House sales. Interest saving £950,000 on loans payed off. Notes 1. On Council Tax - other income - it's hard to judge as other income varies. Council House sales have claimed to around £.5million, losses on Leisure Services £250k+ each of the last two years. Pensions have gone up. However in 2000 the Council raised £3,489,000. In 2008 it will raise £5,315,000 in local taxes. My calculator says +52.33% (not 65%). This is a rough analysis because of the variables such as debt repayments have gone up before the Tories sold off Council Housing and wiped £12million off saving £1million a year in interest payments... .... what's actually on their CT bill.... 2. Band D - Everyone uses Band D where all homes or no homes are Band D in an area. It is 9/9ths - the full Council Tax. Band C is 8/9ths etc... Its all proportionate except Bands F G H... BAND PROPORTION A 6/9 B 7/9 C 8/9 E 11/9 F 13/9 G 15/9 H 18/9 Hyndburn Council Tax 2000/2001 - Band D - £151.53 (Band C 8/9th) 2001 - Band D - £163.50 2002 - Band D - £168.08 2003 - Band D - £174.63 2004 - Band D - £181.44 2005 - Band D - £190.28 (don't have to hand 2006/2007) 2008/2009 - Band D - £219.00 = 9 budgets, 1 Labour Budget / 8 Tory budgets - £151.53/£219.?? = +44.95% 3. RPI v CPI???????? 37% or 16% Norman Lamont (Tory) introduced CPI (known as RPIX) in 1992. Interest rates and Government/Business policy is set by it. My wage rise is set by it.Everybody uses it as it's more accurate. Only corrupt politicians misquote using RPI to 'look good'. IF RPI (37%) was used I would be around 15-20% poorer that 1997. Obviously completely untrue and why no-one uses RPI. 4. Daily Telegraph Study As above. Band A or Band D it is the same %. More importantly The Daily Telegraph used Band D (not that it mattered) for all authorities as this is the Full (9/9ths) Council Tax. Other authorities in Lancashire with identical County Council and Police charges are much cheaper. 5. The Conservatives have cut services by 40% between 2004-2008 - And the Council was so bankrupt in 2003 Ian Ormerod had to dismiss/pay off all senior management and begin a huge redundancy programme so there was enough money to pay the remaining workers. Another lot of cuts not mentioned... 6. The Council has been massively funded by Govt. This has paid for services the Council, was already or may have provided otherwise, therefore making savings +70% in the basic grant. +£12million SRB +£3.4million ERDF +£7million NRF +£45million so far ELEVATE (The Council tax payer previously paid for Housing refurbishments) +£2million Lancashire Childrens Fund +£1.2million Home Office Funding +£1million DEFRA +£3.9million is (flogging off the family silver) asset sales given to the Council prior to the Tories (next to nothing left BTW) +Lottery - Council given direct funding for anything from the Lottery £1.5million rising +£7.5million (over last 3 years) Gordon Brown handout for ANY capital expenditure the Council wants (this is why we have stopped borrowing - heaven help us if a) GB pulls the plug on this b) DavidC pulls the plug on this +£4million Bonus Revenue fund from Gordon Brown this year and the next 3. +£22million LEGI Fund Bburn/Hyndburn/Burnley +£0.6million per year Council House sales and rising ....there will be more.... this is what I can remember Also the Council has benefited from +£35million to do up Council Houses +£18million 2x Health Centres (I put that because Conservatives at the last election claimed they built them) +£1.2million Concessionary fares + The College.... and on and on..... You can see how much is being wasted. It is the most expensive Council in Britain & probably the worst given it is so well funded...