[jambutty]

Originally Posted by cashman

understand why they are scared of one, but even so i aint convinced of the outcome of one, i think they may be the same.

Apart from some jiggery pokery with a few words I am led to believe that they are essentially the same.

Ask yourself this – if you wanted a particular outcome in a vote but had strong suspicions that the vote may not go your way and you could spin your way round not having a vote, would you allow the vote?