[derekgas]

And now you have me going, I will give you another example, my eldest boys are 27, 25 and 17, by the time they were 6 or 7, they required no punishment because they knew where the line was and what the consequences were, the middle lad was particularly well behaved, mostly because he is naturally quiet and laid back, when the eldest was 15, he got in with a bad crowd, and his behaviour changed, I was very busy working, and he was taking more and more liberties at home when I wasnt there, one Friday, his mum grounded him for hitting his brother, he ignored her and walked out of the house, he strolled in at 11 oclock, not expecting me there because that was my normal night out, as he came in, I grabbed hold of him (he is a big strong lad, and very capable of handling himself, had I showed any weakness, he would have taken advantage of it), put him against the door, and told him, 'if you think you are big enough now to take me on, then lets go outside and sort it man to man, otherwise, under our roof, you live by our rules', I was hurt having to do this, and he was shocked and hurt because of it, he was good as gold from then on, (I had other things to sort out with his 'mates' too, but once I had seen the parents, all was fine), so now you know why by and large, I ignore the do gooders who preach that kids dont respond with respect when they know who the authorities are.