[Gobbiner17]

Thanks for the information about R&B, Wyn. You are very passionate about it and I am grateful for the musical examples that you post and I must check out the other names you mentioned. I agree with you that real musicians in real time react with each other in special ways to create something unique and that one or two men (it is very male dominated) will not have the same interactions as 4, 5, 6 or more, especially if it is recorded one instrument at a time. I also share your dislike of 'antiseptic muzak' and am aware of how the music industry steals from the originators, even the name 'R&B' in this case, and package their watered-down derivatives as the best thing around and get away with it through clever marketing and control of much of the mass media.

To say I am an ally of phoney, manufactured dance music, however, shows your limited knowledge of the genre called house music. No doubt the stuff you hear on TV and radio is mostly phoney and manufactured by music industry maffia who operate in every area of music. Quite possibly the musicians who make good house music have been influenced to some extent by this phoney stuff because there is so much exposure to it, but their real influences come from records played in clubs never heard on mainstream media, and also nowadays from the internet. Even acid house raves have been phoney since the late 80s taken over by gangsters and money makers, but lovers of good house music know the real from the fake just as much as you do.

As for emotion, I think you will agree that there has to be empathy by the listener to appreciate what the performer is trying to express. I think you will also agree with Margaret about how certain sounds, such as a violin, can stir up fond and strong memories. Well, in my opinion that's how house music works - the audience is 'up for it' just as you were when you were a teenager on a night out, so the joyful feelings are already in the audience and the music helps these go deeper. Certain drum beats and sounds trigger memories of deeper feelings, as do the synths when they come in, and the snatches of vocals etc. Discerning listeners detect subtle differences in the 'found sounds' as you call them and simply love these superb sounds being repeated over and over again. In many cases the interplay of rhythms works to take you on a journey into your emotions, whereas with your rhythm & blues it is usually the vocalist who takes you whilst the rhythms don't really go anywhere (perhaps you have examples to prove otherwise?)

I could say rhythm and blues is manufactured too, after all the same rhythms and the same blues are to be found on many tracks, so you could even say it is formula music. But I won't say that because the more I listen to it the more I can appreciate it and it comes for 'way down deep in our soul'. Believe it or not, good house music also comes from the same place.