Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Hi, just been past the memorial by the old Shopfitters building. The council are there, looks like they could be putting the extra names up - as promised.

maybe someone could nip round and if so, take a photograph???

Just off to Manc now.

Atarah

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

I had a leaflet pushed through my door today inviting me to attend the re-dedication ceremony on 27th June at 11.30am and details road closures between 10.30 and 12.30

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

I'm working with a couple of artists and all the local schools this week to create banner artwork for the procession.

The procession starts at Brookside Street at 11.10am and walks along Union Rd to the war memorial by 11.30 for the rededication service.

The workers were there all over the weekend, both Sat and Sun, to get the sign/names up.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

So is the list of names up now?

It still looked covered up with supports this morning

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Have people been to see this yet?

I'd especially like to hear your views on it Retlaw - how accurate is it all?

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

I've seen it. I thought that the names were going on the war memorial but they're on a separate thing just behind it, aren't they? I wonder why this was. :confused:

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Not been to see it, but if they used the list compiled in 1922, which had many inaccuracies, and their additions which were availabe to download a few weeks ago 390 names, which included two men who survived, then its still wrong. I they want to keep all the 1922 list and their findings, then they are still 20 odd names short of the number I found.

If the plaques are made of bronze as in the Observer article, some body will have them for scrap before long.

Retlaw

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

I was appalled by the Accrington Observer this morning - they hadn't put anything about the parade in this morning's issue. I know that a photographer was there because I saw him!

They haven't covered any of the Armed Forces parades/events and there were at least three in Hyndburn that I knew about!

Very sloppy reporting if they can't even be bothered to include such big events.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

That's why I wondered if you'd been to see it to see how accurate it was. The first thing I did was look for the name Drummond to see if it said Drummond or Drunnond and it was spelt correctly, so they've obviously done some work on the list since.

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I suppose if the Observer was a truly local paper, it would have had full reports, but now it is part of a large printing conglomerate I don't suppose we should be surprised.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Just been up today.
Its just as I expected, there are now 397 names, the first list had 390 names.
Checked the first column there are 46 names per column.
From Ablett J. to Buckley J., the are eleven names without the 2nd initial.
George Booth the man who survived is still on.
Ada Broughton who never lived in Ossy is still on

Then on the 2nd column is Campbel H. Another error, His name was Henry Campbell WHITTAKER.

This is what you get when amateurs play at research, believing they know all.

It took many years for me to aquire the knowledge and information I now have.

If my list had been on the shelf in Accrington Library with Bill Turners name on it, it would have been accepted without question.

I could go on, but I might say something I should'nt

Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Further to the errors on the Oswaldtwistle Memorial.

Campbell H. is also on the list under his correct name as H. WHITTAKER. So he's on twice.

BUT to cap it all thev'e missed William LOWTHER, an Accrington Pal, killed in action July 1st 1916, during the battle of the Somme. He is on Knuzdens Memorial, and before anyone starts, the others on Knuzden's Memorial that are included on the New Ossy one.

Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Ya but we got a hell of a write up on a pub in Helmshore Margaret, no doubt we'll get one about a pub in Marple next week:rolleyes:

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Looking at the Observer this week, yes, do think they could have made room for an article on this event. Seems to me has been a commercial decision.

Not sure how they lay out the paper for printing, but looks like they print 2 on across making four pages in all. They appear to do in multiples of 4, however, could be incorrect re. this, but sure you understand what I am trying to say.
They could have done a page on this, but would mean finding enough adverts/news stories for the other 3.

Ok, we have lots of photographs for the Baby competition and the Proms from two schools. Not objecting to these at all, but an editor thinking of commercial value, would sell more papers (and more photographs) for these articles rather than a dedication to a refurbished war memorial. Sad.

To be fair, they have done a full page on the inquest of Pte Jason Rawstron from Clayton killed in Afghanistan, and a half page on the Pals 1st July commemoration.

Passed yesterday, and there must have been around 20 Rhyddings school children clambering all over it. Not saying they were doing any harm, and is very tempting to sit there and gather. At least some were reading the wreaths and plaque.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Attached is panel 1 of the new memorial, which has NINE errors on it. I've also included how the panel should have looked.
It won't be long before the harrogate tripe dresser is on here, been quiet for a month.
Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

It is slightly frustrating Retlaw, that you knew this in advance of the names being engraved and yet you deliberately chose to not communicate with the council and the people who were organising it.

Now you're doing exactly what I predicted and pointing out how wrong the memorial is and blaming other people for those faults!!

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Wrong again Gayle. I did contact the council, and got the run around. Could'nt get any where with them, contacted my local councillor and he could'nt get any where either, even the Telegraph got nowhere other than the responce from britcliffe if Mr Homes has a probem he should contact Roy Lockwood. I don't have a problem
Some of the mistakes they already knew about, they are greyed out on the list that was available online, but they've been included.

Roy Lockwood knew I already had all the men from Ossy well over two years ago. PLus 165 pictures of them.

Why should I go to the trouble of contacting him, I have enough work to do without chasing amateurs, to correct obvious errors, he should have contacted me, he said he would at Bill Turners funeral.
Before you accuse me of any thing, you should get all you facts together. Nobody question Bill Turner's works on the Pals, and the Memorials he did, so why should my work be questioned.

Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

I'm not questioning your work - in fact the opposite, on many, many occasions I have called you the expert in this subject.

If you contacted the council and got the run around then that's a shame because I knew that we'd get to this point. There's about 300 names on that memorial and as far as I'm concerned every single one of them could be wrong - I personally have no way of knowing which ones are right and which ones are wrong.

Yes, I could go and check in the library etc but like you pointed out - you've been doing this for 26 years, I'm more likely to make a mistake or not get anywhere if I started checking.

I honestly don't know what the answer is to this now!

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

It is probably too late now.

Sounds to me like several people have been rather stubborn and put personal differences before the honour of the men concerned.

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Here is proof of one of their mistakes, neither they or the tripe dreser could find him in the Commonwealth War Graves, so they pick one that has no family information which they think can't be contested.

George Booth survived 10 months in hospital and went back to the front and was discharged from the army in 1919, his address on discharge 10 Mason St. Check, Check and Check again. Thats what I do, thats why it takes me a long time, I hate mistakes.
Why did'nt you go round to Roy Lockwood and tell him, before the list was sent for engraving.
Retlaw.

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I didn't go round to Roy Lockwood because I had no idea what was wrong and what wasn't.

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Maybe they can turn the plaques over and start again on the back ;)

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Given the large number of Germans who were working in the UK prior to 1914 (a little like the Polish presence in the UK today) I wonder if there would have been any in Ossy who would have returned home and then been subsequently killed while wearing the coal scuttle? If so, should their names be on the monument?

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

When this idea was first mooted they asked for all the names of the town's war dead to be included, that's why my mum contacted Roy Lockwood about her father, who died in 1944.

I can understand why this hasn't happened, as there would be a lot more names. I just wondered why they asked via the press for a list relating to every war, then changed their minds.

Looking in old articles of the Observer, it's clear the council were made aware of mistakes relating to the list of the fallen from 1914-18, way back in 2004, thanks to Retlaw.

Memorial bid for forgotten heroes - News - Accrington Observer

Sadly the whole thing is becoming a shambles.

We can split an atom, but we can't make a correct list of those from Oswaldtwistle who gave their lives in the Great War.

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Lets hope Gayle reads this.
They had enough notice about those missing.
They also knew who I was.

Retlaw.

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One way to find out is to go through the 1911 census for Oswaldtwistle looking for German names, might take you a while though.

Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

It was pretty much a speculative question, Retlaw, and it would certainly take massive time and effort to undertake such an exercise and that would only be the start. There was just a passing possibility that you may have picked up something in the local papers from the period and immeadiatly afterwards. I know that in Kings College Chapel, Cambridge, there is a German list (ex-students) next to the British dead (which includes the name of Rupert Brooke) and there is another example I have seen but at the moment I just can't remember where.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

There were two members of the Accrington Pals who could speak fluent German. one of them was Anton Peltzer.

Retlaw

Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Hi, for anyone who cant get to Oswaldtwistle to see the memorial, here are a few photographs.

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Do you mean like these right way up.
Light were'nt to good it was raining.
Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Please tell me all that blue card/plastic isn't permanent,

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You mean this. Its even distorted where they've nailed it on, not be long before the local yobbery have made some improvements.
Retlaw

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Do you always have to be sarcastic Retlaw? Unbeknown to you, I have already emailed Mick and asked him to delete my photos, so I can resend. As soon as I posted the photos I realised they were the wrong way round and tried to alter them, but didnt know how!

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It's temporary - was supposed to be removed a few days ago, not sure why it's still there.

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Higher Liz.
You know its one of my better vices.
:theband::theband::theband::theband::
Retlaw

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Thanks Atarah and Retlaw for the picks:mosher:

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

For those who are still interested, here are the panels on Oswaldtwistles War Memorial, with my panels alongside.
A mans Christian name and his regiment gives him more than just a bare name on a memorial
Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Seems they already have twice Retlaw, according to the Observer with 'grease stains' ? :(

Notice The Observer have also given a half page to the Armed Forces event ... with the addition of an apology for it being omitted from last week's edition, stating they had production problems ... oh yeh ? reckon they saw this thread.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

I was contacted this morning by a member of the Western Front Association, who has visited the new additions to the Oswaldtwistle War Memorial.
In the message he pointed out the pictures on the sides, one in particular showing Arras Memorial Serre.

The Arras Memorial is nowhere near Serre, its nearer Belgium than Serre, which is where the Pals fought on July 1st 1916. It should have shown the Theipval Memorial, which is much nearer to Serre.

Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

With the cover to the memorial now removed does anybody know if they are correcting the error or is it to stay as it is?

Mark

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Are you refering to the crappy blue plastic with the pictures on it, by errors do you mean the names.

In the Lancs Telegraph July 9th britcliffe says he has invited Mr Holmes to write to me and if he choses to point out these mistakes I will have them rechecked.

What planet is he on, he has never contacted me, and who is going to do the checking. Does he seriously believe that the compilers of those plaques are going to admit to any mistakes. There is also the fact that many names are missing. Is he going to get them to check those as well, if they did'nt find them first time round, will the succeed in a recheck.

Highly unlikely, they would have to read every page of the Accrington Observer, Accrington Gazette, Blackburn Weekly Telegraph, Haslingden Gazette from August 1914 to December 1919, plus the Burnley and Chorley newpapers for 1916, which I have done, and still do. I photographed the orginals over 4 years ago.
Even the harrogate tripe dresser has corrected one of the errors they included, from his website.

Retlaw.

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Mentions for Haslingden's and Oswaldtwistle's War Memorials, sculpted by Louis Frederick Roslyn.

Roslyn, Louis Frederick, Sculptor - Your Archives

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

That's very interesting Rindi thanks for the link

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Here's the one I did for William Turner's book on Haslingden's fallen.
I put the bayonet back on in the picture, and removed some of the background foliage,
some little tyke broke the original bayonet off

Retlaw

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Looks like more works gonna be done at Ossy, 2 guys there today measuring the plaques and the plinth.
Surprised no-ones mentioned the monument being lit up at night, I think it looks well with the coloured light shining on it

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

I like the lights as well.

We don't want to tell the out of towners about it. Last thing we want is the Accy sneaking over the border to have a look :D

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

How true K S H, somebody wants a pat on the back as a way of saying thank you. Not everybody's cup of tea I know, remembering the fallen, however hightlighting this tremendous sculpture must have the desired effect on a lot more people who pass it of an evening..

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Yeah but if it was just lit with white it could look a bit dull, might be a personal choice but I thing it looks great with the green and blue shining on it

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

Exactly, to highlight both the soldiers and the winged statue of victory. Looks great..

Re: Oswaldtwistle War Memorial
 

For anyone who didn't see last weekend's Observer, the council are planning to add the names of the town's war dead, killed after 1918, on the newly installed Roll of Honour.

The details were in the paper, but I can't see them online, so I don't think there should be a problem adding them here.

Anyone who wants to add the details of someone killed in action, needs to contact Andrew Hayhurst at HBC, on 01254 388111, or the Area Management Team on 01254 380121, or take in as many details as possible, name, rank, army number, dates etc., to the Willows Lane Depot.

On behalf of the people who have made this possible, thank you.

My mum is thrilled that her dad's name will now be recorded at a place that is very special to her family.

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I just hope they make a better job of the 2nd WW memorial than they did of the 1st WW one, there are quite a few names still missing on that.

Some times details of men who died in WW2 are more difficult to find than WW1.

Retlaw.

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Can understand yer mam being well pleased rindy.;)

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Ya cashy and Garinda's Nan would have been over the moon

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Well as I want past the other morning the war memorial in Oswaldtwistle was not illuminated and I notice the war memorial in Rishton is also now in darkness..cant decide if this is a maintainance failure or a misplaced attempt at making economy savings