Hitting a women
 

Firstly, I'd just like to say I personally haven't/wouldn't hit a women.
Secondly, I don't think I could ever really condone hitting a women...but I'm open minded at the minute.

Now, it's Saturday night controversy time :eek:

Some say, if you can't comprehend how a woman can (physically) threaten or assault a man to the point that the man retaliates and must defend himself with the use of force, then you are no only ignorant, but also sexist.
For example, A (abusive) woman takes a knife to attack her partner (regardless of size) The women clearly has the upper hand in this situation, so why shouldn't the partner defend himself (with force if necessary)?

Personally I think there's a difference between defense and offense and usually the bloke can defend himself without hitting a woman back.
However, if a woman is not being rational enough to work a problem out and is in an (emotional) state, lashing out violently at a man, who's to say the man has no right in responding in the same manner?
I mean if you beat most animals with a stick, at some point, you're probably going to get a nasty response.
In a argument both parties should try to limit their emotions during to prevent their 'animalistic' sides from taking over.

Some may mention equal rights (if a women can give a slap, she can take one :eek:).


I think when women say they want equal rights their referring to pay etc.
Not using it as a green flag to justify aggression :rolleyes:

Some folk say a bloke should never hit a women, a absolute "no no", not even in sled defence or as a last resort.

What's your views folks???

Re: Hitting a women
 

Equal opportunities?

Re: Hitting a women
 

I think violence from either a man or a woman is totally reprehensible. To lash out at anyone is a selfish act in itself and anyone handy with their fists when they 'lose It' deserve all the punishment and shame heaped on them. What sort of a scumbag thinks it's okay to inflict pain on someone else just because they need to offload the inner frustration they obviously can't deal with?

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Well, firstly I detest Jack whatsisface.....and I really don't think that video is suitable for this part of the forum as it contains quite a bit of swearing.....it does nothing for the topic.....and you know the answer to the question you posed. It is a no brainer.

Re: Hitting a women
 

i was asked if i gave my missus a black eye

like hell i did

she had to fight me for it

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by the way if that were true she would have killed me in my sleep

or so i have just been informed

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Quite right too, that would be my modus operandi if it was ever called for.:D

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Question time:

1. What about in relation to "self defence" or to defend others (kids for example), She's hysterical and she's threatening violence against a kid, would a (back) slap not be justified?

2. What if you couldn't "just walk away", If she has you backed into a corner, you can't restrain her, would a "backhander" (not to cause damage but to create a "short, sharp, shock") or the threat of one not be justified?

3. What if the shoe was on the other foot, would it be ok for a women to give her partner a slap now and then (or threat of one) to discipline him? (I've known plenty of women who have done this).

4. Is retaliation not acceptable under any situation?

5. If someone attacks you with the sole intent and purpose of causing you harm, does that then automatically qualify them as an aggressor?

If I'm honest If your fine throwing punches, you must be fine taking them would be simple consequential thinking for me but mother always said " never hit a women" And to be honest if I was put in a certain situation I can't honestly say I wouldn't retaliate.
I think the law says you have a right to defend yourself and in some cases even make a preemptive strike.

Re: Hitting a women
 

I knew that there would be a stereotype in here somewhere ... and this one was easy to find. Irrational, hysterical women ... if only they were more reasonable, like, say "men", there wouldn't be any domestic violence. If only they were more like men, rational, sane, males would not be murdering their ex-wives and girlfriends ... and, quite often, their own children ... a solid non-hysterical response to being dumped.:rolleyes:

Re: Hitting a women
 

Accyexplorer why have you asked this, other than trying to be controversial? I agree with Margaret, it is a no-brainer. Surely any right-thinking person would agree that violence in any shape or form against anyone and by anyone is to be deplored. So the question is superfluous.

By the way, you shouldn’t make comparisons between humans and animals – animals would come up trumps every time.

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i think there has been a case where a woman walked out of court a free woman after attacking her husband because it was that special tiem of the month infact i think she killed the guy but on the flip side a man has walked free after claiming he killed his wife in his sleep

both may be urban legends or possibly both had guillible jury's and i think both cases were in america

i guess the problem with getting old is that it gets harder to remember when you heard about something

Re: Hitting a women
 

I just wanted to see what folks views were on domestic violence, kind of like a little study (especially since I couldn't honestly say I'd NEVER hit a women under ANY circumstance).

I'm incline to agree that violence is never really the answer , there is no need to bring physical contact into most matters and as a "right thinking person" I will always try to avoid violence regardless of gender.
However, if a person (regardless of gender) decides to punch/slap/kick/headbutt me I would probably hit them the back.

Hypothetically speaking, If you had your back against the wall, your partner was being physically abusive, you couldn't walk away and thought your life was in danger, then (in your eyes) would you not be justified to give him a slap or maybe even a punch or two?

Another point I'm interested in an want folks views on is:

How many of our members (regardless of gender) would intervene if they seen a someone knocking their partner/opposite sex about?

Me an our peg were on our way home from the pub one night when we heard a woman crying and screaming, A man (boyfriend/husband whatever) was knocking her about like mad.
I went over to try stop it, I was punched in the mouth (causing injury) and the Mrs was slapped across the face (by the bloke). When i saw this I lost it (red mist) I went ballistic and ended up knocking him unconscious (so he wouldn't hurt anyone else). The police were called and I was arrested for ABH. Would I do it again? I can't honestly say I would.
I've also heard stories of similar scenarios were even the women being knocked about has turned round and said keep your nose out.

Re: Hitting a women
 

i once saw a woman set about a bloke in the hope and anchor with a broken bottle

he didnt exactly hit her he slammed the pubs front door shut on her arm as she tried to get back in to continue attacking him.This action disarmed her as she dropped the bottle but it also broke her arm.

i think thats the sort of thing accyexplorer is getting at its not always a case of the little frail woman getting a beating from the big nasty man theres some headcases out there as well..

do i think what teh man did was right or wrong

lets just say iv been the victim of a broken bottle and if if i found myself facing another coming towards my face i would do everything i could to prevent it hitting its target regardless of teh sex of teh person wielding teh broken bottle

im my case it was a man who attacked me so there wasnt much fuss made about what happened to him

his broken nose and black eyes healed i still have the scar

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I still think it is a no-brainer. Domestic violence.....it doesn't matter who the perpetrator is, is just wrong.
To suggest women are hysterical and men are not is also wrong.......have you never seen a man fighting a man?
What used to be rare in my day was women fighting...but even that isn't uncommon now.
Why is there violence against anyone? Might it have something to do with what people see on their TV and computer screens.

You may think that this is alright.....but concisitently seeing violent actions de-senstitizes the watcher and makes this action seem at best 'normal'...and at worst brave and worthy. Except on the screen when the hero dies he has five more lives to defeat his enemy.

If I were in a violent or abusive relationship I would head for the exit as fast as I could.....if that were not possible then I would use subterfuge to get my own back......a squeeze of Croton in his tea....a rub of insulating fibre in his underpants...or a cut chilli.
I could think of many ways that the perp might not die but might wish he had.

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What T.V. channels and web sites do you view to influence you in such an elaborate fashion?
:eek:

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not TV. I read a lot....have an active imagination....and a devious mind. I am a woman after all:D

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Calculating, but not hysterical.

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Some woman I know (I'm not saying all :rolleyes: ) use the cultural idea that if a man hits a woman then he is a "scumbag" or a awful person because woman are weaker (personally, I think that's BS).

Not all men are bigger, stronger then women.
Their are women I know that are bigger,stronger an more fist happy than a some blokes and would certainly hold their own if it came to going toe to toe with their partner.

I think some women hit men because they know that there will be little to no consequences for their violent behaviour.
I've seen some violent women do some treacherous things to men because they knew those men wouldn't do anything (least of all give them a slap).
Do I think those type of women need to learn that they can't just go around and do what they want and not experience (aggressive) consequences? Hmmm

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:eek: I've seen you in a new light now Mrs P :D

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Just because I have the ability does not mean that I would use it.
Which ever way you cut it ,it is still wrong. As I said in a previous post I would head for the door and not look back.
I have been fortunate in my life not to have needed such strategies...but knowing they are there.......not saying it is right though.

There is a lot of domestic abuse that does not involve violence. This is much more serious as it doesn't leave physical scars, but it leaves mental scars that are disabling and not easy to treat.

I have seen this in a close family member and it is hard to prove, difficult to stop and the abused person very often does not recognise it as abuse for a very long time.

Putting all levity aside domestic violence/abuse is a very serious problem.... it not only affect the person getting the punches, but any children who may witness it. The results are insidious and long lasting.

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To my way of thinking fighting in public and domestic violence are two different things but both are very wrong and shouldn’t happen. I agree that people from either sex can be as bad as one another when it comes to aggressive behaviour. They certainly let themselves down.

My view on domestic violence, Accyexplorer, is that it is carried out by bullies and cowards who get some perverse enjoyment out of belittling their partner by beating them senseless, and so are able to dominate and control them. Sometimes it is a family member or a carer who is the perpetrator, not always the partner. This behaviour is inexcusable but sadly seems to be getting more prevalent, and there are many cases that are never reported because of fear of more retaliation and where the victims suffer in silence. As Margaret said, sometimes it is domestic abuse rather than violence but this is just as sinister in its outcome.

Restraining orders are often not worth the paper they are written on.

Accyexplorer, although you did suffer because of your intervention when the woman was being attacked I hope you WOULD intervene if you saw the same scenario happening again – or at least call the police for urgent assistance. Am sure you would.

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Domestic violence is defined as "behaviors used by one person in a relationship to control the other."
(Definition - Domestic Violence)
It is generally seen as physical harm but, as you (rightly) point out "domestic violence" usually occurs over a long periods of time and (often) includes emotional abuse too.
Much of what is called "Domestic Violence" today is often very trivial.I believe this is a disservice to people who are actually victims of genuine violent/emotional abuse.

I also believe that all cases of "domestic violence" must be judged according to its unique context and circumstances.
And therefore it may well be wrong to say that "domestic violence" is "NEVER" justifiable.

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I do not get the premise in your last sentence.
I agree it must always be judged on individual circumstances.
But I cannot see a set of circumstances where you could justify it...even as a retaliatory action.

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Sorry, Accyexplorer, but I disagree with you. Domestic violence of any sort is never trivial - try being on the other end of it. Thankfully I am not speaking from personal experience but I know of some who have suffered through it, and it is certainly never justifiable. No violence is.

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I would say inadequates rather than bullies or cowards, But as far as i'm concerned if anyone oined my missus, I would knock em as far back as John The Baptist.

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I'll have to get back to you with a set of scenarios M, I guess what I'm trying to say is, Is it ever justifiable to carry out a act of violence, for instance if it serves a greater good?
I know it's extreme but, for example, if you've two kids you come home and your partner has seriously hurt (even killed) one and is threatening violence against the other.
(In your eyes) Would it not be fair to say that a (preemptive) strike would be acceptable even justified?

No need to apologise d, it's your opinion and I respect your honesty. Also I'd like to thank you (as well as others) for sharing their views on this topic.

I do think (like I've said in previous posts) that you should "never say never" ;)

:hidewall: :D

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In such a situation, no-one can know exactly what they would do.
I would hope that as a mother I would have made an exit before such an event took place.
If a father can act in such a violent way against his children I would hope that there would have been signals before this arose.......and that I had acted on them.
Children should not witness such things......and in many cases the violence is hidden, but the results of the violence are definitely picked up by children. It harms them as much as if the blows had been directed at them.
No act of violence ever can be said to serve the greater good.

Re: Hitting a women
 

No.

I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who get the cause and effect the wrong way around when it comes to violence in entertainment. The kids who perpetrated the columbine massacre modelled themselves after characters from The Matrix. Does that mean they were influenced by the film? Only insofar as it gave them an idea what to wear. The wiring in their head which led them to carry out the atrocity was bad before they saw the film. Yet typically you'll get a whole bunch of detractors whose focus is in the wrong place - usually headed by people who see it as a convenient blame instead of admitting they were so close to the perpetrators that they should have seen the signs and maybe taken some positive action.

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Well, you are entitled to your opinion. There is evidence to suggest that playing computer games as a child changes the hard wiring.
Violence desensitises those who watch it. It normalises it...it gives it a validity.
If you speak to those who are subject to violent childhood episodes, they will justify the violence that they practise by telling you it was part of their background.
Children who watch/play violent computer games have difficulty in separating the fiction from the fact.

I didn't mention any of the atrocities which have taken place in schools in the US.
I have never seen the Matrix so I cannot comment on it. In fact I avoid all the blood and gore films. I have seen enough blood and gore in my life to last anyone three lifetimes.....there is no entertainment in it for me.

Re: Hitting a women
 

Violent Video Games Change Kids to Think More Aggressively - TIME

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2006-23323-000

Study: Violent Video Games May Make Kids More Aggressive

Cornell University is also doing a study on this subject.

Re: Hitting a women
 

What is the link between violent video games and aggression? | Pete Etchells | Science | theguardian.com.
And yes, I know that there are some studies that refute these findings......but I think that children are impressionable and are affected by what they see and hear in their environment.

Re: Hitting a women
 

Surely that has to include everything in their environment, parental care, how they react to their peers and many, many other things that can contribute?

There are millions of younger people that have played violent games, watched violent T.V. that aren't violent because of it.
When I was growing up the lads used to play cowboys and Indians, British V the Germans, we died many times every day, but we've grown out of it and I for one in adulthood have never been tempted to kill Indians or Germans.
:o

Re: Hitting a women
 

Less, playing Cowboys and Indians was subtly different.....there was no blood or gore.
The guns had no bullets.
They were games of role playing.....and you might argue that video games are just that too.....but there is strong evidence that these DO change how the immature brain functions.

I would not let a young child play some of the video games that are available.
The violent games have age restrictions on them.......(and I know that this means little to the parents who think they are harmless) but they are there for a reason.

Re: Hitting a women
 

Anyway, does this constitute a thread wander? Or is it permitted because we are still discussing violence?

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I don't know, perhaps if someone objects we should beat them up?
:confused:

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Oh Less!! Nooooooo!

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A (male) friend of mine ( a bouncer) once tried restraining a drunken (violent) women (by grabbing her arms and legs), she started shouting things like "sexual harassment","inappropriate touching" to the police (it ended up getting pretty serious,but was later dropped).
I assume she only did it in a bid to get my friend (who is no wrong un) in trouble.

Some folk (especially my mate who works the doors) would say if a women's being violent a open handed slap is the cure and that they'd "like to see a woman try to turn a slap to the face into "sexual harassment","inappropriate touching" :eek:.
In the case of doormen,police etc if someone is being violent they are expected to,and must display the patience, restraint, and physical resilience of a saint (just adding this into the mix).

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As far as i'm concerned violence in general is perpetuated by poor parental control, there will always be exceptions i.e. people that are nuts, To many let kids do owt fer a peaceful life, and in general leave em to it on internet n mobiles n such stuff, where they can access anything they choose,I defy anyone to tell me that sorta thing is good parenting? In general i think a big influence on kids, are older uns at school, they tend to look up to em, if they are bragging about watching stuff on the net, its a knocking bet young uns will have a sneck.

Re: Hitting a women
 

Well said Cashy.
If there is any possibility of a risk with videos/video games.....and you are a parent, why would you take that risk?
Isn't it better to err on the side of caution?
I know what my answer to that question is.

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I don't think you should have liked that, it could be misconstrued as encouraging violence!

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The only reason I liked it was because it made me chuckle (as I assume you was kidding) and you didn't really mean you and Margret should actually go and beat folk up,I hope this stops folk making the wrong assumption from me liking your post ;)

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The only thing that I regularly beat......is......an egg!
I would be totally useless at fisticuffs. I would rather run away?
Glad the post Less made, made you chuckle. We should all have at least ten of those every day.

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im just thankfull guy fawks's powder plot was as long ago as it was or wylie cyote would have got the blame for it

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No he wouldn't. Cartoons are different.

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Glad to hear "himself" doesn't "feel the wrath" and, you don't beat him like a egg :D
I'm also glad I was right about Less and, he isn't one to have a neanderthal like mentality :)

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Oh, he feels the wrath alright, but not in blows....I use hot tongue and cold shoulder.....not that either have much impact after 47+ years. :)

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Owww " hot tongue and and cold shoulder" I know them well :D

It may feel like we're going round in circles (different questions,same answers) but I'm trying to get a comprehension of it all and as you know I like to be educated, so here are a couple more questions :D

1. If a women hits a man in a certain spot (genitalia) they say it's the equivalent of a steam train hitting a rabbit :eek:.
So would, in your opinion and in that circumstance, a open handed slap be justifiable or would you still see the violence as "a no no" ?

2.If a person (for the purpose of topic we'll say a women) is coming at you with a knife,broken bottle etc and you fear for your life, is force justifiable, even if that "force" includes a (preemptive) strike?

3.Do you think "never hit a woman" unless you're in a situation that the woman can/will cause you severe injuries is fair?
I mean if she's fighting like one of Eric's squirrels then a "open handed slap" or "punch to the face" is a "no no", but if she's coming at you with a broken bottle does the phrase " 'NEVER' hit a women" still stand? :D

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why does domestic abuse have to be fisticuffs ..... it can be mental abuse ...ie bullying you not a good father/mother ..... you cant cook for toffee ... etc ...

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Ive known a few that thats correct, should people tell lies?:D

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It doesn't,I think it was Margret who pointed out (around post No18) there is quite a bit of "domestic abuse" that doesn't involve "fisticuffs" and that this form of abuse often has more serious consequences.

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I was brought up on a diet of Tom & Jerry, The Young Ones etc. My firsthand experience is that seeing fake violence does not turn a child into a violent adult. You can make statistics say anything you want - Less is right, there are far more factors than just playing 18-rated games or watching video nasties, it's just as conceivable that the same factors that turn a kid into an unhinged adult are the same factors that allow him to play those games or watch those videos.

I actually think that computer games should be part of a child's upbringing. The disruption caused by this kid shows he's mentally unhinged and if it were possible to identify him, he'd be a prime candidate for some sort of therapy before he murders a class full of kids in a few years.

I just told my teenage son what you said about denying access to games and films because of the risk it might turn him into a violent person. His response was that I should take him to school tomorrow because of the risk of crossing four roads turning him into a red stain on the front of someone's car...

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Proper little smartarse, think you should give him a slap! :D

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I also watched cartoons as a child....but this was much before the time of The Young Ones.
I also have a healthy scepticism of statistics.
There has been lots of research on the effects of violent video games and there is evidence of changes within the brain of children after relatively short periods of time.

If as a responsible parent, you choose to let your teenage son play these kind of games, then of course that is your prerogative.

Maybe some computer games are suitable for children, and there are some which will help with problem solving and hand-eye co-ordination.....but the games should be age appropriate and they should be monitored by parents for their suitability. I was not saying that children should not play computer games....just that violent games...those blood and guts ones, the ones which glorify rape and gang violence are not appropriate.
Life is full of hazards. We all do the best we can to minimise the risks to our children.

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IMHO like anything else, "gaming" as they call it should be enjoyed in moderation, balanced with other activities,family time,schoolwork etc.
Regarding concerns about aggression, I think quite early on kids tend learn to distinguish between fantasy and reality, and their brains don’t treat these phenomena the same.
That being said I can see how some kids could turn out a little more violent after being exposed to violent video games, especially if there's no balance in the form of other activities.

Perhaps the parents of the children that are allowed to play said games, all day everyday the ones that don't give their kids a good balance of activities need a good slap :eek: :D

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I also think your sons analogy is flawed. Presumably he has been doing the journey to school in the past and has learned the safety rules......and is quite capable of ensuring his safety.( though any one of us could suffer the fate of being mown down by an out of control vehicle)
And of course he doesn't want to be deprived of his computer games.....children who have had such privileges are reluctant to give them up.

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Again this is a major thread wander.
We will be getting our hands slapped very soon and will be made to sit on the naughty step.

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Here's another sort of wander. What really pees me off is men saying, "I don't hit women." You're not supposed to you dumb mother. You want credit for it? A cookie? A gold star? Jeesh. Soldiers don't get the VC for doing their duty. Don't preen yourself, and proudly claim a right to bask in the admiration of your fellow humans.

End of rant;)

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Very true, it's similar to those parents that appear on 'talk shows' like Jeremy Kyle saying things like "I look after my child", "I pay my child support"....

...walks of whistling Dion-di-mucci's the-wanderer :D

Re: Hitting a women
 

AccyExplorer said: << ...For example, A (abusive) woman takes a knife to attack her partner (regardless of size) The women clearly has the upper hand in this situation, so why shouldn't the partner defend himself (with force if necessary)?>>

The first thing is to keep calm and speak in a lowered tone of voice to try to diffuse the situation and keep talking. She's probably right handed. If she tries lunging at you do what boxers do, feint to the left, then feint to the right and during that last move, quickly lift up your straightened left arm - aiming it at the inside of her right arm and keep swining your straight arm outwards away from your two bodies. The surprise factor and weight of your swinging straight arm should force her right arm (& thus the knife) away from you ........... then scarper.

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See, Accyexplorer...it is brave to run away.

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Hmmm, it's all well and good Lucysgirl saying do the Ali shuffle, then this move,and that move.
What about those of us that are bad on the old pins?

Like I've said in previous posts, always try to avoid confrontation/violence.
Sometimes though, it's not that simple. ;)

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For those who are interested, here is a collection of interesting clips.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNOTWjIJ58E

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYm0sKoqkY

Re: Hitting a women
 

Some of those clips remind me of the time a boyfriend and I were walking passed a very long cinema queue and I spotted a couple in the queue who were having a barney and the chap was being very aggressive towards his girlfriend/wife and nobody was taking any notice ... I immediately stepped towards them to intervene but boyfriend pulled me back saying not to - "but he's hitting her - dooo something" ...
"Leave them to sort themselves out", was his response. I didn't date him again. However, I now think he was right.

I would have intervened in two of the staged sequences:

(1) because it looked to me as though the man was trying to drag the woman off somewhere and who's to know if he had a sexual intent, and

(2) Where the woman was obviously a very timid person.

Re: Hitting a women
 

I suppose folk have to weigh up the pro's and con's before stepping into a potentially violent situation (sometimes just the threat of ringing the police is enough).

As far as your companion is concerned,was he right to say don't step in?
I think if you can help one person who's being attacked or abused its a small victory and being quite isn't the answer (I know, it cost me a tooth).
A lot of violence however, doesn't happen on the street it happens (at home) behind closed doors.
Perhaps like violence, my grammar is a crime and I should just be quite :D

Re: Hitting a women
 

You are right when you say that a lot of the violence happens behind closed doors......and much of this is covered up by the victim...who often will make excuses for her violent partner...believing it, in some way, to be her fault.
Often children will not see the violence, but they will see the effects of the violence.
Pehaps the woman flinches when her partner is near her......they may also see the physical effects of such violence. Children can be badly affected by such things..again believing that in some way they are to blame.
Domestic abuse/violence is insidious and damaging both mentally and physically.......the people who perpetrate it(both men and women) are bullies and cowards who enjoy the power of controlling someone.

Re: Hitting a women
 

While in my last post I implied that victims of abuse were female.....there is an increase in the number of men who are subjected to abuse......but the methods used are just the same. There is never an excuse for domestic abuse.
Implying that the abuser is in some way damaged as a result of what they have been subjected to in their past doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

If you have been a victim, or a witness to domestic abuse then surely your experience should make you less likely to be an abuser because the pain and suffering it causes has been experienced first hand.

Re: Hitting a women
 

Children witness domestic violence in many different forms. For example, they may get caught in the middle (trying to stop mum/dad being abused) .
They may hear verbal/physical abuse from a different room,they may even see mum/dad with a "panda eye" or "fat lip" :eek: my point is like Margaret says the children that witness domestic violence are being (emotionally) abused themselves.

Here is a interesting read for those who wish to know more.
Domestic violence - its effects on children: information for parents, carers and anyone who works with young people

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The link is very informative and enlightening......and it underpins much of what has been said in thread.

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It was all of 20 years ago on a warm sultry late afternoon and through my open window I could hear shrieks and laughter from the nearby watering hole and the childish chatter and giggles of children playing out on the rec. My elder son paid me a surprise visit, deposited his dog and said "Hang on, I'll be back in a minute" then he was gone.

I followed the dog out into the garden where he enjoyed a bowl of water and I enjoyed the late sun, the sound of the birds and happy chatter but it was noticeable the shrieks had ceased.

Son returned not too long afterwards when I gathered that he knew the girl who'd recently bought a nearby house and seeing the door was open he'd gone in to investigate the shrieks. He found a chap playing "ten bells of hell" on a girl who boarded with his friend and after remarking that no man should hit a woman, he challenged Bully Boy to "Try me for size". Apparently the offender made quite a good floor cloth.

Both the girls moved away a few months afterwards and I don't know if the victim ever saw the floor cloth again.

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Nice little story.

Do you think your son would/should of stepped in if it was the girl playing "ten bells of hell" on the bloke? Or

Do you think that he may of thought the guy must deserve his beating and left them to it?

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Here's something that maybe worth considering ... anyway, and interesting read.

Ottawa Humane Society - The Violence Connection

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Again, it's the bully who wants to feel control over a sentient being that he/she feels they can act against because they are weaker and defenceless.
Interesting link Eric.

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"If animals are at risk, people are at risk and if people are at risk, animals are at risk"
Very interesting indeed, I wasn't aware there was a "link" between folk that mistreat animals and folk that are violent towards other folk, Nice one :)

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As Bryan and I would both "Jaw, Jaw, Jaw" first, I'm pretty confident that our son would do the same whatever the circumstance. We taught our offspring the same principles and values which were taught to us - one of them being "count to ten before you act in haste/anger" . All circumstances are different aren't they? Being drunk and aggressive is different from being sober and aggressive for instance.

Breaking news on TV; a 15 year old pupil has just stabbed a female teacher to death. Can we compare today's generation to my and my son's generations?

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Eric said: <<Here's something that maybe worth considering ... anyway, and interesting read.>>

Yes, very interesting and I heard it voiced recently on TV too.... and for those who questioned my son's actions I think that as dog owners and we were adopted by a stray cat plus at various times also kept scores of tiny furry animals might just soften the opinion of others :)

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Here's something local ... local for me anyway;) It's from the Kingston Police Force web site ... note that it includes "children, other family members, or pets." And if charges are laid, they can not be withdrawn by either the police or the complainant ... it has to go to trial. None of this sobering up and changing one's mind. Which, to my mind is not a bad idea. None of this beating up your old lady and then smoothing things over with flowers, candy, and promises not to do it again.

https://www.kpf.ca/familyviolencec46.php

I think MargP hit it when she mentioned bullying ... that's what it is, plain and simple. And now, with the internet and anti-social networking this bullying can be carried out online.

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with online bullying you just have to pull the plug on the social media......(and I know that for some this might be difficult).
Bullying in the home, by someone you think cares about you, is a different matter altogether.
Far less easy to escape(especially if you have small children - but more necessary that you DO escape).

I have had recent experience of school bullying(with one of my daughters children) this was insidious and destroyed much of the confidence of the child who was bullied.....the bully was a child from a background where poor parenting/discipline was evident.
Fotunately there was a satisfactory resolution....but for a time it was a bit of a worry.

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Echoing Erics agreement too Margaret.
Bullying and intimidation takes on many forms and guises. Overtime I despair of man's inhumanity to man and social media only opens up a whole can of worms and platforms for that too, litterally.

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Say it isn't so Paul !!!

BBC News - Paul Simon and Edie Brickell charged with disorderly conduct

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I agree...and like you, I sometimes despair of the way things seem to be going.
People no longer speak to each other(this is especially true of the younger generation...who recently I have seen text one another while in the company of the person they were texting......is face to face conversation so hard to deal with)
Without interpersonal skills how are people able to develop empathy, compassion and feelings for their fellow human beings?
I know this is a huge generalisation, and I am against those...but it is increasingly my observation on what is going on around me...and I speak as I find.
Maybe I am travelling in the wrong social circles:confused:.

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Tackling domestic abuse, protecting victims and bringing offenders to justice should be a high on the list for any police service.
I'm in agreement that once charges are brought it's not a bad idea that those charges 'have to go to trail' and perhaps here in the uk, a law change may serve justice better if they mirrored your local service in that respect.

"Advise that neither police nor victims can withdraw charges"

What's our other members think about this?

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This is one case over here. The downside of social media. I presume that similar cases have happened over there.



Suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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yes Eric they have......and with similar outcomes.

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Regarding whether or not to try to intervene in cases where someone is being attacked - either by someone they know or by a stranger, or whether to ignore the situation because either we are too afraid for our own safety or 'it's none of my business anyway'. I just ask this - how would any of us feel if we found out that our daughter, or son, or some other loved one, had been attacked and no-one had gone to their aid.

I know how I would.

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Do you ever get the feeling that this is a good time not to be young? ... I'm glad I'm on the way out and not just starting in.

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Eric, I have said that so many times.
I think the folk of my era had the best time to be young....but then I would say that...wouldn't I?

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Dotti I am small of stature, but I have waded into disputes(as a Sister during my working life) and things have sort of fizzled out.

When I have looked back on these events,they were scary...but it didn't stop me.
I think I would still do the same now...there is only one thing which holds me back...My husband!
He is scared that something deadly will happen to me if I step in....and most of the time when I am out and about we are together...it is only the odd time I am out and about on my own...but yes, on reflection, I would step in.

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I'm like you, Margaret, I think I'd step in (have also done on occasions) I certainly couldn't just walk past and ignore the situation - though I'd probably try to talk the attacker out of it first - as I'm often told I have the gift of the gab!!!!! (Or maybe they just mean I talk too much).

These days most people carry mobile phones with them so the least a person could do (if too scared to personally intervene) would be to ring the police.

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People tell me that I have an 'air of authority'......and that even when not in uniform they knew who was in charge.
What they never realised was, that inside I was quaking jelly.

Hitting a women
 

Such similarities! People have told me I have an air about me as well, (some were even cruel enough to say it could be improved with deodorant).
However, that's where the similarities end, I would not have been able to get into your uniform, with or without you in it.
I do suspect though that I would have suffered violence and been left quaking like a pathetic jelly had I even contemplated trying!
;)

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No, you are right Less....well about the uniform anyway.
Not sure about the air of something......I'm sure people would not be so cruel in their suggestions.
My uniform felt like a suit of armour.....and I felt capable of almost anything when I wore it(never tried leaping off a building - no point in being daft about things).

Hitting a women
 

Jumping off a building?
Yep that would have left you like a jelly.
:(

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No Less!....I knew that however protected I felt......Oh forget it! :)

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Oh dear, are you feeling delicate? (Monthlies at your age?).

Should I duck?

If you remember, I have posted how way back when my missus was a couple of days before nightmare, I would arrive home from work and without provocation she would throw her shoes at me.
Now, they were wooden those wooden shol's/skols,?? Did I react violently?
To right I did, the third time that happened I got my wood saw out, cut them into small pieces used them as kindling for the coal fire we had.

How violent was that? Strangely after that she seemed to learn I wasn't the enemy that her emotions should be focused on.

It could have been pick up the shoe that gave me a black eye and beat her to death with it! Thank goodness I'm not like that.

Though I have to say, once menopause hit in...

She was violent once more, Huh, women, can't live without 'em and can't live with 'em unless you learn to duck!

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no Less...no need to duck.

As for those monthly thing...well that ship sailed a long time ago...sometime back in the late 80's...it was a surgical thing...you had the fireplace removed and a stainless steel sink put in.
PMT was not unknown to me...but it was Putting up with Mens Tediousness. This couldn't be cured by all the vitamins in the world.

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See, I told you, Ena Sharples ... or, better still, a pint-sized Hattie Jacques:dancedog::hidewall:

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Eric....I have the temperament, but not the bresticles of either of these women.
I am definitely more a Baroness Trumpington...but, of course, much younger and with less grey hair.

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Nah, an older version of Peggy Mount, thrown out of the Gestapo for cruelty.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...s4jWLsK4uX1lyw

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Mmm ... this could get violent. Maybe mentioning Nurse Ratched will push her over the edge.:D

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No.....not me. It would take a bit more than that to push me over the edge.
I think I will wait until you both need a bed bath......and then seek out a rusty Brillo for your tender little places :).
Only joking chaps. I would use warm water, soft soap and a newly laundered fluffy bath blanket.