East Accrington/phoenix projects...
 

I'm quite angry at hte moment

i've just come from seeing what plans they have in store for this area and my house is being planned to be knocked down

without any consultation or anytyhing. so they give 4 choices and on all four the choice for me is having my house knocked down. i do not call that a choice. if i wanted to move out of the area i would've taken up numerous offers from my company to work in london/oxford/reading - all nice areas but no i wanted to stay here. it was my choice. telling me i can chose from 4 plans of which i have 1 choice for my house is not as simple.

apparently the whole concept has been designed up by some london fancy pants company sittin in their feng shui office.

is this whole project affecting anyone else? what do u guys make of it?

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I'm sorry to hear about your house Mani. I would be fuming, there was a rumour about compulsary purchase orders round my area a couple of years ago and I was not a happy bunny. I checked with somebody at the Council who then said that there were no plans for at least 15 years. The way that this Phoenix project is going you may be in your house for a while yet. It's just bloody unfair when some pen pusher in another part of the country is paid a fortune to decide what will happen to our properties when they've probably never been here.:mad:

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What I do find peculiar is that they are knocking down houses in Accy while the town recorded the second largest increase in house prices (41% year on year to march) in England, and I think the 6th in the UK as a whole (that is according to the Halifax house price survey, the most authoritive of its kind)

This entire scheme is just one more crackpot idea from that blustering, incompetent nincompoop who goes under the title of Deputy Prime Minister.

You have my sincere sympathies, Mani.

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see one other thing i dont understand is this

the govt want to lower the costs of buying a house.

yet if they're makin less houses than they're knocking down how is this meant to help the prob?
some of hte regeneration plans include takin two houses and makin them into one. what happens to one of hte families?

does anyone know a time scale of this? on the boards it did say 5 yrs but i think its gonna b alot harder to pull this off.

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ask mr jones mani he will sort you out????

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Why knock them down, why not spend thousands on them just as they have done with the ones on blackburn road,is that not the second "grant" those houses have had.

Am sure it would be cheaper in the long run to refurbish the houses instead of knocking them down.

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i heard through the grapevine that some people were only getting as little as £3000 for their houses from the council to make way for this project

i may be wrong on the figures but there was an uproar in the telegraph a while back about how little people were getting in the area near where wrist wires was and blackburn road

no one should be forced out of their home its just damn wrong especialy when it is only to make somone money at another person expense

why these people cant dig into the green belt areas like travelers can i have no idea

if theres no room to build then tough luck is how the rule should be

not force people on to the streets

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Think the Cllr you need to question is Cllr Tony Dobson.

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sorry about your plight, but they don't give a sh*** thats the sad part people only matter for a few weeks every election,(or they pretend thet matter then)

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Mani what area is this? Do you have any info on the boudary of the affected houses?

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Hi
The boundries of the affected areas are identified in the link on my last post
Project Phoenix
http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/Your_Co...es/phoenix.asp

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There is talk of Phoenix 2 which affects the other side of Blackburn road around the area that teh Grammer school used to be. I was wondering if it was this bit that Mani was talking about as I guessed that those affected by phase 1 would probably have known about it before now

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Obviously, I do not know Mani's house...but lets assume that he has pride in his bricks and mortar and it is in good condition! He has been given choices on moving but you can be sure that one option that is NOT open is to sell his house as it stands for the FULL asking price!

Because the council have a scheme in mind to pull down the entire region it makes Mani's house unsellable!!

It must be a terrible situation to be in...........Wish you well Mani.

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The Antley pub on Blackburn Road is on the list to be demolished and has been for years.
It was a change of use building, now a Muslim girls school. I have never seen anyone use the building, and not sure if it was intended to be used. Can a school be demolished? and/ or will the goverment have to pay to build a new school? is this a scam.

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Barricade yourself in, Mani. Refuse to move, and get all your neighbours to do the same. Ask for a Judicial Review of the plans - at least that would be a delaying tactic, if you didn't succeed. It is complete madness to knock down houses that people live in and love, when we are already short of housing stock.

If anyone wants to stage a protest at a Council meeting, let me know and I will come up for it.

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the region i'm talkin of is steiner st portland st fredrick st - all that area is more likely to get KO'd and the whole monk st area etc

and their idea of regeneration on blackburn rd?

plant a few trees

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Re: East Accrington/phoenix projects...
 

my missus has just bin talking to a lady from across the road,who has lived there most of her life,and she learnt last night at the meeting her house is coming down in probably next 5 years,she was most upset near tears, so you are not alone mani.not that its any consolation.thats in the area your on about entwi.

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It will be compulsory purcahase, Heres 50%(if your lucky) of the value of you house now move along without a fuss there..

Oh, you can't afford anywhere to live, tough!

Do we have a full list of the streets involved? I have relatives in that area and up to now it was only thought to be an investigation. If things have been decided then I need to let people know.

Ian

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Over the past year, I have come to love the stone-build terrace houses in Accy. As I drive along Blackburn Road and see the more modern brick homes I almost cringe, they seem so out of place!

In most cases, the outside walls are good even though they are 100 years old and an investment of probably less than £30,000.00 on each would regenerate the houses for decades to come.

On the other hand, if someone with money was to gain them through compulsory purchase, demolish them and build "modern" houses, they could either sell them at premium prices (in excess of 6 figures) or rent them out to those that can afford them for "southern" prices as they will be "in a desirable area!" :(

In essence, what project Phoenix is doing is to take away the affordable housing available in Accy and replacing it with nondescript housing that is priced out of reach of the average worker in the area.

I presently live in Primrose Street, Accy. and at some point in the past, H.B.C. spent a lot of money rebuilding exterior walls/railings and cleaning stonework and it is a pleasure to drive into my street now even though the houses are close to the age of houses earmarked for demolition just down the road.............

Perhaps one of the problems stems from the fact that H.B.C. have always been unable to control the lack of interest from landlords who "unofficially" rent out their premises without regard for the law of the land. There are many safeguards in place, but in Accy, action is seldom taken, therefore properties deteriorate..........

What Accy needs is "guts leadership!"

1) Invest money into every house in ****** street,

2) Put pressure on landlords to maintain their houses to a reasonable condition,

3) If a "tenant" fails to look after the property he/she is in, pressurise the landlord to kick them out, give the landlord financial backing to do this!

4) If a landlord shows no interest, GET A COMPULSORY PURCHASE ORDER! and be able to buy out the landlord (at present compulsory purchace prices)

5) Make it illegal to privately arrange a tenants agreement...........go through the legal requirements...or don't rent!

Accy could be good again, but it needs councillors that are prepared to force home the legal requirements of home owning and to kick out those who regard Accy as an "easy target"

Spend 2 years getting rid of the "undesirables" and relish in the admiration of the true Acciers!!!!!!

You want my vote, and countless others, Thats THE WAY TO GET IT!

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is there absolutely nothing a person can do if the council decide they want to force you out of your home that you own..?

our army is constantly been sent abroad to stop other governments from forcing people out of their homes etc

seem to me to be a breech of a persons human rights i dont understand how it can be legal for this to happen in a democratic society

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It is perfectly legal Chav.

Busman, it is teh landlords responsibility as I understand it to maintain teh property. That is why you pay rent. Its liek a tele, if you rent it and it breaks they fix or replace it.

Ian

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there was a meeting or open day call it what you will on thurs at the building corner of college st,the lady i mentioned was there,there are 2 options she was told but both would happen in next 5 years,both included her house.my missus was told to e-mail HBC bout 3 weeks ago by a gent at a prior meeting,she was told the information will be sent right away if she did this STILL WAITING for it.

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The problem seems to be "unofficial landlords" (somebody just buys an extra house and then rents it out to whoever) who don't give a hoot about maintaining property. The house next to me has been owned by various different "landlords" and rented out to various different tennants some of whom have looked after it and some of whom have trashed it. At one stage the back wall was falling down and a real danger to anyone passing but the owner didn't want to do anything about it. There develops a sort of apathy where the landlord doesn't want to do anything because the tennants won't care for the property and the tennants won't care for the property because the landlords won't do repairs.

It should be possible for the council to force them to do the necessary repairs and to have the ability to evict the tennants who don't look after it.

Or maybe all rented property needs to be "vetted" and all landlords have to be licenced or something. It only takes one "dump" to start the ball rolling and before you know it whole areas have gone downhill.

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HBC do run a scheme for vetting private landlords but it's voluntary they need to come forward and register
http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/Your_Co...pages/hals.asp
Perhaps would be a lot better if HBC could enforce the scheme to ensure all private landlords were registered, but that could be in the future from reading the information.

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Well they are getting on with it i took these pics of what used to be PEARL st last night on the way to the stag ...

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Sorry to dissapoint you Mick...but that COULD be just fly-tipping from the travellers..:D :rofl38: (only joking, honest gov)

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I would agree with you Busman but they were moved on about 3 weeks ago

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Had to post this. Anyone watch the Trevor McDonald programme to-night straight after Cori st. The task to refurbish a terraced house in Liverpool on a budget of £18,000 which was the cost of demolishing it later in the year. The results of the refurbishment carried out in 4 weeks was stunning to say the least, the project went a little over budget and finished at £24,3++. I think the whole programme should be burnt to CD and copies sent to all councils that are planning to demolish terraced houses, saying "think again before you act" The show presenter visited the housing minister with photos of the refurbished property, the reply was oh we have asked local authorities to look at refurbishment before demolishing property.

Don't think HBC have been informed of that fact.

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Sadly even if HBC had been informed of it they would have a] ignored the info b]not understood it or c] carried on regardless. We are dealing with a different species here and they do not understand reason,logic,common sense or economy!

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watched the same prog as park and agree entirely,by the way we are STILL WAITING for the(SENT RIGHT AWAY INFO).

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Price rises reflect all house types, however some house types have risen little and no matter how much they go up they are low demand. There are 33,000 households and 35,000 houses. The last survey had 1900 empties. In theory prices should go down but the housing market is linked to other markets, particularly the stock market, most acutely through the buy to let market.

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Hi Mani. Yes lower the cost of housing in the south because price rises have priced so many out of a home. In Hyndburn there are 33,000 households and 35,000 properties. Of that 60% are terraced and demand at the bottom end exists most of the 2000 empties. A hundred or so are Council Houses but all other types are in greater demand than supply, so the market is skewed. It is anticipated that ELEVATE will take out several thousand terraced houses and replace them with in demand housing to lower the costs of those, primarlily semis and bungalows. There is also a major affordable housing issue.

2 into 1s have not happened yet. There are all sorts of regen ideas that will be used but not as yet. Project Phoenix is the only demolition occuring at the moment. Displaced residents are in a good position as they are receiving their house price plus a sizeable relocation grant. The scheme is 15 years.

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Those figures are wholly innacurate in all the cases I am aware of. Whilst it is suggested no one should be forced out people are in fact better off with whats on offer to move. Unfortunately poor housing has to be cleared in most cases. Options should as refurb are lalways looked.

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Most people are walking away with £50-£60k for a £20k house.

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West Accrington Residents Association would have you strung from the nearest land post for suggesting that Lonsdale Street ++ should stay up. They have worked for 10 years to have it flattened. Concerns over developers always exist. Supposedly CABE are now involved at the behest of the ODPM to make sure Councils dont return to 60's and 70's developments. Average refurbs are £30k-£40k done properly to last 30 years as is usually the aim. And the houses aren't wanted so refurbs are questionable in these circumstances.

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10 years in the making, 100's of residents meetings. I am surprised Mani has been out of the loop. I would suggest Mani contacts Joan Pilkington of the WARA or attend the Church Area Council. I think they have a meeting coming up soon.

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There's a lot of boarded up, vacancies there and they are part of Phoenix 2 as stated. However things are going to get worse, landlords have been buying aggresively in the area recently from all over the country - which perversly forces up prices. However the Council is bulldozing upto the landlords property - which it legally can do - and letting the market take over after that backed up with a CPO based on the current market value [obviously not as good once the bulldozers have visited]. Its a battle between landlords and speculators and the Council trying to protect public money. HBC s policy has been much firmed up since Blackburn w Darwen offered sound legal and policy advice.

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Its sad when people are forced to leave a place they cherish and have no desire to leave. All to often though everyone else is thinking sell up and move out and landlords are move in and life just goes inevitabley downhill regardless - and the value of their property. A lot of terraced houses will come down over 15 years. Everyone was supposed to have been consulted.

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CPO involves the full market value of a property by law and on top residents are being given sizeable relocation grants. These are to be replaced possibly by equity loan schemes at the cost of inflation with variable options to purchase - bit like RTB. Loan equity schemes solve the problem of the £30k relocation grant not being enough. It would be benficial to identify the streets to be demolished but housing experts think this would help landlords and speculators and result in greater demand on the public purse buying them off landlords later.

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Accy does need guts leadership. Unfortunately unpopular decisions are unpopular.

The 2004 Housing Act is a big stick at landlords and introduces licensing and Env. Health standards. The major problem is Salford and Manchester are already implementing this aggressively so bad landlords are looking elsewhere in the region to invest their money. Theree is speculation that some of this is comming to Hyndburn and that also families from manchester may be relocated in Hyndburn by landlords.

However only excellent [5/5] like Blackburn or good [4/5] councils like Burnly can implement the scheme. Hyndburn is average [3/5] and cant. The Hynd. Labour Party will try and get the scheme implemented fully in association with one of these two authorities as we are aware of what is happening.

Poor developments are a blight the Govt is insisting Councils work with CABE to prevent this. £30k is about right but there is an oversupply of terraced houses by about 5000. Obviously this type of investment is needed and will take place in all other cases but not through grants but loan equity schemes and some percentage grant, though this has all yet to be decided by the Conservatives.

Most of your suggestions are contained within 2004 Housing Act which comes into force this autumn. Landlords whose property is unfit may have it taken from them for upto 5 years and works carried out by the licensing authority [the council] and charged back to the landlord. The scheme is self financing and Manchester are charging landlords for each property £120 approx per year in licensing and enforcement costs. The worry is poor landlords moveout to places like here for an easy ride.

Drug dens can now be shut without any defence objection or appeal and taken into management based on police & residents cumulative complaints.

As for who will implement this, thats a political decision. You will have to decide who is tougher locally, Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat. I think the answer is obvious though.

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Re: East Accrington/phoenix projects...
 

All schemes are locally decided and propositions put together for the ELEVATE board. It presents these to local govt. Differences exist across East Lancs. Blackburn are using loan equity on top of CPO monies residents recieve. Hyndburn is usuing 100% relocation grants up to £30k on top of CPO value [independent market value]. Blackburn are using Housing Act CPO's and Hyndburn is using Town and Country Planning Act CPOs. The pathfinder title as implied is the Govt telling local authorities to find the best path. All demolition refurbishment in Hyndburn is organised through HBCs strategic housing manager and his team in consultation with other agencies and residents.

To the person who said we need affordable housing on Project Phoenix not expensive middle class houses. The bulk of housing is built by Space New Living, an affordable housing association and bungalows make up many of the houses as they are in shortest supply in the borough. A large health centre will also occupy the site as some open public green space.

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Hi Will, your right. The new Housing Act answers many of your issues and is coming into force elsewhere as we speak. See previous posts on new landlord licencing but it covers what you are saying.

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The HALS is voluntary and good landlords have registered and bad landlords havent. The govt has introduced legislation to licence landlords 2004 Housing Act. Whether the Conservatives will manage to implement this see previous posts for complications and issues...

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This is a good point. However there are 2000 empty properties, mostly terraced. And the oversupply problem is worse because some people in terraced cant get into their desired type, bungalows and semis due to lack of supply. Refurbishment should always be the first option. However 15000 terraced houses in low demand areas times £24k is a lot of taxpayers money. Private property developers only want to build houses that they can sell and much of the regen money will have to come from the private sector. ie the cost of demolition and rebuild is passed on to the new house owner with some public subsidy.

It is also thought that the town centre would benefit from houses where a greater disposable income exists and this type of development will help to reduce the negative preception about desireability of inner urban areas. [and take pressure of the green belt] Again CABE are at the heart of this and HBC is going to choose just one private developer to 'work in partnership' to ensure profit is only one motive amongst many.

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Things have been extremely slow I agree and the deaparture of Mr Rix and bringing in of BwD in November has helped accelerate progress. Many Labour Councillors, active informed RA's are equally quizzical/disapointed at the way the scheme has been handled.

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A high profile example of this was in Nelson where heritage lawyers were brought in to defend residents and which they subsequently won and demolition was averted. Having said that anyone suggesting Lonsdale St should not be demolished would be chased out of town by the beleagured residents who have campaigned for demolition and Project Phoenix for years. Often CPO and demolition is cheaper given sell on values of large brownfield sites reducing the cost to the taxpayer. CABE are at the heart of the scheme under ODPM instructions to ensure quality designs and build and prevent past failures repeating themselves.

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One has just been done in Woodnook for TV. I agree with what is said. However there is an oversupply so how do we manage empty unwanted houses? I think HBC's policy is to demolish the oversupply plus some more and the shortfall will allow some new build as there is excess demand for semis and bungalows in Hyndburn. All other terraced property will be, as you have pointed out, refurbed. How, that has to be decided because you are talking about some 10,000 properties.

There are a variety of refurb schemes and I agree, they look excellent. It is amazing to see what can be done with a terraced house. I am personally disapointed that we have not moved faster with refurbs, though they will happen - eventually! What has not been decided is how to fund them but it is likely it will be a small percentage grant and some equity release/loan pegged to inflation instead of commercial lending rates. I am not sure but this is where people are going right now.

A major problem is the lack of builders and trades people. Hence much of the early work has been training at Accy College ready for the bulge in refurbs/redevelopment.

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The Govt has provided the laws for licencing and they are being inspected at the moment. Manchester is ahead of the game and will licence ALL landlords in manchester @ £120 per house. That scheme has not started just yet. They are working through it still. HBC does have staffing problems which is well documented regarding the Councils finances.

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I take your point. The Council could be described as rudderless and the that the govt has put on the statute book laws, however they are not requiring Councils to implement this scheme and in areas of highy demand, they are making it not as easy to apply licencing. However Hyndburn/Manchester is low demand and restrictions are relaxed. The powers that be now need to give some political oomph to the law and implent it as they see fit. Remember we have dog fouling fines and the Conservatives have a policy of not fining but warning. As you are aware we would introduce fines, so yes there is a difference of approach and I cant find a polite and objective way of not saying Labour/Conservative!

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The high price tag of semis perversly allows developers to demolish and rebuild [I am not saying that is right but more where we are at]. Developers want large brownfield sites.

I think you are right in the main. However there are 2000 empty homes in the Borough and another 3000 at the top of the terraced house market where households want a semi or bungalow out of 21,000 terraced properties. That leaves 5000 unwanted terraced and 16,000 wanted terraces. So I think its more of an issue of the margins and not the bulk. There is a case that made more desireable some of the 3000 who want to move to a semi or a bungalow may change there mind and that even some of those in a semi may change also to a new refurbed terrace. Two lots of private consultants have visted Hyndburn to access this equation and there view is that is not likely. The demand for a garden, drive, privacy, new build is quite strong among a section of terraced house owners and no amount of niceness about a terrace will dampen their desire. Hence there is a balance that has to be made.

As you say though, they should be cherished as part of our history and refurbed where at all possible.

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Why not invite one of the big league Main contractors to refurbish one, and see what happens

Wow, don't understand that statement graham, why have Barrett a major house builder got itself involved in a small development in spring hill (the ex rists site) cause there is rich pickings to be had in the spring hill area at a later date.

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What has happened ost 9/11 was stock and shares became a bit more dicey and a lot of money was re-routed into property and capital fueling the northern housing boom. And as that became a prosperous market more investors saw quick gains. All estate agents had several multi millionaire clients on their books ordered to enter the buy to let market regardless. Many investors were not even interested in which properties were bought or whether they were in fact let as profits from rising prices outstripped all considerations about rent. A false speculative market that curiously had nothing to do with household demand and everything to do with speculator demand. A bit like pieces of art really. Perceived value rather than actual value. In theory the market should re-adjust as quickly as soon as the speculators pull out. However they aren't and the original housing market in Hyndburn was dampened below its actual/real value. These factors account for the exceptional increases in house values.

This has actually been tragic. Not only have we created a bunch of non wealth creating millionaires, but a lot of first time buyers may have difficulty. The private rented market is more problematic and accounts for 11% of all houses in Hyndburn. Landlords can see how much they will benefit from a high price sale and so charge rent equally accordingly in order to stay renting.

I have put the peculier situation to strategic housing; that empty properties do not impact on rent ie supply and demand doesnt work because landlords are working on a sale or rent equation and that sale prices are determind not by supply and demand but by surplus capital in the economy. The old brake on this was council housing which afforded low rents and made high house prices unrealistic. With RTB and a diminshing low rent council sector, expanding private sector rents can be forced up considerably. Its a strange set of circumstances which Keith Hill, the Housing minister could not understand when I quizzed him last year.

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With refurbs most work will be done by local tradespeople. If the refurb programme had been rolled out whilst we had a chronic shortage of tradespeople the outcome would have been predictable and expensive. So part of this regen scheme is to put in place tradespeople who can soak up the demand that will surge. Not only that in reverse is gives us the chance to create proper jobs for local people on decent wages instead of the money going to out of town companies. Of course training takes a few years to come through.

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I Know. But its all stitched up now. One contractor, several streams of professional advice. Legal deals that favour the Council. In projects like this Councils know how to gain the upper hand.

Shame elsewhere, supermarkets and mult nationals, particuarly on planning have an army of suited guys that drive coach and horses through the law and residents concerns and interests of the local economy. Its interesting to see how BwD are fighting back and I have to say thay would give Tescos a run for their money if they had to. Tesco's would floor Hyndburn BC !!!

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Well Broadway stangely is all public money so they will only have to tender for the work, most of which is underground, pipes, foundations etc... The Arndale Centre have pulled out so the section between Broadway and Arndale wont get done as we speak. The Ob had reported they were to commit £60k which wasnt quite the case.

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Sorry it wasn't clear what you meant but your right and thats another story.

I remember first getting elected in 2002 and we were weeks off what the americans would call closure. The development was finallly finished in May 2003.

Everyone had doubts in the LG about the MSD scheme, but yet so much money had been invested already and goimg back seemed a massive negative decision. Lets be clear however, we would not have built it in the first place - that was unanimous within the Lab group to my knowledge. The issue was though inherited at a late stage. HBC would have had to carry all costs were the scheme curtailed and they were sizeable.

No-one really knew how bad it would turn out to really be and optimists abounded, particularly Conservatoves and Mr Rix. Mr Rix was a popular chap back then. He seduced doubters for HIS and the Conservatives flagship project now that Labour had control. The option of pulling out would have led to intense political hostilty, as well as picking up the costs, about running Accrington down so it was then a lose lose situation.

And every time there were rumours or doubts emerging and a chance of debating scrapping the scheme, Mr Rix would would hurridly turn up with some late long winded report you didnt have time to read or properly digest that would contain some answer that was apparently around the corner.

The crises point came when the critical 75% floorspace occupancy couldnt be reached pre development. JJB had been coveted to fill the upper floor but that wasnt enough. It was all down to Wilkies premises. I was wishing at the time they wouldn't then the project would have sunk. It did appear unlikely that the store would be filled and the scheme collapse. However Wilkies finally stepped in.

We also had discussions about Broadway and the wreckage. Mr Rix would never be persuaded by anyone but himself. Set against a backdrop [and the shock] of bancruptcy laid out in the DeLoitte Touche report on HBC, the Lab group found the council was spiraling out of control. The MSD was just one smaller problem and perhaps not enough attention, understandably, was given to it. At the same time Mr Rix still had supporters and he was a magnificent charmer to the simple minded. Within months Ian Ormerod the leader had had a heart attack largely put down to the pressure and size of problems he inherited.

Mr Rix could never properly explain why Broadway was trashed. Evertime we had the conversation I was accused of having a go at him and he talked at length and around the subject to avoid giving an answer. My opinion was he had to control EVERYTHING and he had that many balls in the air at once, this is one he inevitably dropped. In the end he dropped a few and people saw the light.

Wilkies was the make or break as MR Rix, despite promises, assurances etc.. had failed to fill any of the smaller units and he needed to fill several to meet the 75% floor space criteria. I believe the Jack Walker Foundation was resolute in this and in the schemes viabilty and I think they were close to pulling funding. Such was the poor financial outlook in the beginning, no commercial backers would get involved until The Jack Walker Foundation stepped in to take what I believe is a third share. That should have been noted more carefully but powerful forces wanted the scheme.

The WFT indicated that unless HBC could prove they could deliver the 75% occupancy they would pull out. It was all about Mr Rix and his business acumen after that. When he finally persuaded Poundland to sign up [dont laugh!!] he lauded it to everyone trying to buy time to fill Wilkies. In the end it came down to Wilkies because that one store would make the 75% and there was no chance with the smaller units being let, time was running out.

I would like to know how the original Market Square Development was scratched and redesigned. If you rememeber the original plan it was that, an open market square surrounded on 4 sides by shops. How did it end up like it did and what role did JJB have in changing those plans? And how much do we own now? I believe its 33% which is down from the old market where we had 100% ownership. And what is its true value? Have we lost money on this project?

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thank you graham & park 381 for a very informative dialogue, it is most interesting.

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A lot of much better work is being done on Phoenix now BwD have taken over from Mr Rix [who had to many balls in the air again!]. I/we would like to see much more done, more quickly and with more focus. The scheme IMHO is still dragging its feet in Proj Phoenix[s].

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Just read that Gordon Brown is to financially help first time buyers afford housing through a new scheme. I am really sceptical about this. Its like the 50 year mortgage solution, injecting more money causes house prices to rise further. Having a massive new build programme will help increase supply and lower demand and that will work but where this govt has got it wrong is in its obsession with private ownership which means free market prices determined by the market.

I think they should be looking at part rent part buy, affordable housing owned by Housing Associations or Councils [ie their motive is cheap supply and not maximum profit] which offers first time households a choice of a low rent against a high mortgage. Enough choice will force the private sector to pitch its prices a bit lower and more realistic.

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A good example of proposed housing refurbishment in Manchester http://www.urbansplash.co.uk/us.php - go to "in the pipeline" Gt. Manchester - Langworthy

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i think for my next home i will just buy the bricks and build it my self

house prices are ridiculous , banks will have to allow borrowing of 5x your anual income if it carrys on at this rate lol

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It doesn't reduce the cosy of the house, only making it so that they can have part ownership in one. And who owns the other bits, Banks and the goverment. Who would benefit from house prices rising? Oh yep, Banks and the goverment. You also have to pay rental on the portion you don't own.

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That is correct.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4570045.stm

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i heard there was some houses in darwen, that the council had someone to go check out. he was only stood in the door way of the rooms for a couple of minutes. when the people got the report back from the council all the houses was beond repair and cheaper to knock down than repair. the people not happy about this got there own survey done .the worst house only needed a few thousand spent to get it back to standed this was another plot for the council to build new houses. i saw part of a program where the council was knocking down streets upon streets.all terrace houses. the council said that it will cost £18,000 to knock down each house. the program picked one house that belonged to someone, but know one had lived in it for years as you can imagine it was in a mess. it cost them £25.000 to do it up. so at the end of the day it would only cost £7.000 to do up a house if you deducted the price of knocking it down. how much would it cost to build new?

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perhaps theres not the same BACKHANDERS in doin the sensible thing !

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Looks like the phoenix project has started, went past Antley this morning, large signs up and several United Utilites vans there.

Wonder how much the demolition contractor will sell the dressed stone and roof slates for ;)

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This has been challenged as you say. BwD were using Housing Act CPOs - an unfit property - to demolish homes. However a minute assessment was never going to stand up once residents got legal support. Hyndburn is using T&C Planning Act CPOs which are are aquired not because of the house is unfit - but because a major regneration scheme which is deemed beneficial is planned. This of course does involve much public consultation [and a public enquiry] and can take 2 years to go through whereas Housing Act CPOs decalre an individual property unfit and can be seen to be used more quickly and more individually.

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I agree, there is a problem with doing it this way but this government is keen to see private sector solutions for always, supported by public money.

The case still stands as Chav said, this wont put pressure on house prices to fall, quite the opposite. Prices will only come down if supply is increased. The stock market becomes more confident and investing in business's is made more lucrative than property. That the increased supply of houses is fixed at a low cost [ie not for profit Housing Association houses at part rent part buy] to maximise pressure on speculators and the market. The rent bit is important because rents are calcualted over the lifetime of the property and therefore much much more affordable, are therefore fixed to the actual build cost and do not sufer from market fluctuations and speculation. ie rise exponentially

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I agree, these regeneration ideas are very important in Accy because we have a historic past that should be increasingly attractive as the years got by to visitors.

So its important to keep as much as what we have and regenerate the existing. A lot of excting schemes as has been mentioned by other posters will come through eventually. I would like to see them come through quicker but I dont make those kind of decisions [trying not to be political here!!]. Loft conversions, rear garages, refits and refurbs, extensions, redesigns, 2 into 1s, back yard clearances, street scaping etc...

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This should be being addressed. Firstly as part of the tendering process for demolition, the Council reduces costs by including salvage in the contract. Slates, stone etc... One question that hasnt been fully answwerd is the recycling of those materials. I suspect we, or the building contrators will buy back these at market prices and not demolition prices. I would like to see them accounted for reused to help keep Accrington what it is, an historic town.

The demolition has accelerated for 2 reasons. One Nigel Rix is no longer with us. Two BwD are far more business, legally minded and have expertise in getting the job done more efficiently.

Just on a point above. I was wrong. The MSD is owned wholly by ABL [Accrington Broadway Ltd], part of the Jack Walker Foundation Trust and HBC does not have share either in the MSD or ABL. However it has all the Peel street units on a long lease at a peppercorn rent [to re-rent on] and owns all of the market and pavillions. The cost of this package was paid for by ginving the land the old market stood on to ABL/TJWFT at a total value of £1.3m. It seems a low valuation for that site. I still cant figure out how we were part of the development process when it was not our development once terms had been agreed.

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It seems that critics of regeneration are not alone, according to The Times, the Prince of Wales is to give the Government a verbal slapping today....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...626669,00.html

I liked the bit about "business as usual with brass knobs on" It would be really funny if it wasn't so desperately true.

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Took these while i was walking round thought you might like to see what is going on with the PROJECT

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just for the record- this was posted in april- STILL NO INFORMATION forthcoming,but she would have it right away yawn yawn.

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yes it is, we used to use the shop and he was a good bloke very helpfull