Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

Tiks had me worried enoughto ask my own daughter if the were sending cards from school. They are but to the local Old Peoples sheltered housing which was a relief. Her mum asked why I wanted to know and for the first time in years she didnt have an answer or a mouthful of words for me. She was struck dumb with shock.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

just remember tinks you have the backing of an awful lot of people , if its getting sticky tell them to read our postswhy involve schoolchildren is beyond me..... pc brigade .......i SPIT ON THEM.

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Cheers Mez :)

What is this Amnesty International? Surely somthing they are involved in can not be bad and dangerous to children? Why did the teacher sound so nervous when she was speaking to me if it is a good thing? I'm so confused with it all my head is literally aching. The one small mercy in this is that it's not criminals from this country but why does Amnesty International think that these people deserve anyones, let alone school childrens thoughts at this time?

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Another thing too! Why isn't parents consent sought before having the children make these cards?

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Don't hope for to much Tinks.....these people are good at shouting and a little repressed when it comes to explaining there errors of judgement.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/

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To be honest, I think that's the main issue. Surely they should have told you about it or asked permission?

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Thankyou so much for that Doug, I'll be having a good read. See if I cn make any sense of this fiasco!

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Yes now that I know he's not in this country it is the main issue.

Also surely the school having any involvment with Amnesty International is not part of the school curriculm it must have been instigated by the teacher/teachers themselves?

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totally agree with you there tinks....as you know i'm a school governer at a primary school in blackburn,i had a word with the headmaster about this and he thinks its pathetic,it shouldnt of been allowed without the parents consent first.

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Hello hun!! :D

That will be why the teacher was crapping in her pants they may well not be allowed and it will be the 1st thing I ask this moronic Head of Dept. tomorrow

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you go girl...i wouldnt ask the teacher about it cos they can fob you off with anything.go straight to the chair of governors,(you can make an appointment through the head) governors hire and fire school staff and i'd want him/her to know all about what there staff are upto.

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As I've just been explaining to vitty in a PM, becaue I don't know nothing of it or his case it makes me ignornt to the reasons. This guy might be a someone who hs been wrongfuly imprisoned, then we'd all look silly kicking up a fuss! The one thing I do believe in strongly is tht parental consent should have been given first. You know me when I have a bee in my bonnet I will get to the bottom of it!

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Its been said for the people involved to read these post and they should. All the parents on here proberly asked their kids if it was happening and quite right to. Involve the school head, school goveners, other parents with children there, the Education department, council, papers the whole kit and cabboodle. I am behind you 101% on this and believe everyone else
wit or without childen are there with you to.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

It's just a shame that this has only now come to our attention. If it had have been two or three weeks ago, then maybe there was a possibility that a card could have been sent to the following gentleman:

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lol hahaha

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Tinks the issue isn't whether or not the guy is wrongly imprisoned.....or that he imprisoned in another part of the world.....the fact is the parents were not involved and the children were not given a choice...those are the issues in question.

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As others have said Tinks we are all behind you. It doesn't matter who the prisoners are, or where they are, the school should have sought parental consent. Maybe they knew parents wouldn't agree and the dep head wouldn't get thanks from Amnesty International for his or her efforts. Whatever the reason behind this 'exercise' It was an unforgivable thing to do.

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I was a school governor for over 20 years, and this is TOTALLY WRONG.

Parental consent should have been sought in view of the recipients of the cards, and the teacher had absolutely no right whatsoever to insist that the children give their full names and addresses. You should take this up with the Chair of Governors, and ask for a full explanation and apology, although it's a bit late for that now. An assurance that it will never happen again might be useful, too. Personally, when I was chair of governors, I would have considered disciplining any teacher who behaved in such a way, and I would expect the governing body to back me.

Take it as far as you need to - it could safeguard somebody else's child.

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And I would want evidence that the card has NOT been sent.....in fact I would demand to have it given to me to be destroyed.....failing that, for it to be destroyed in front of me.

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Another worrying aspect of this performance is the involvement of a group like Amnesty International. OK, a lot of what they do (not everything) I can support, what I cannot support however is this blatant attempt at politicising of the classroom. Any teacher's political views and opinions should be left at the school gate. The word Educate comes from the latin Educare and means to lead out . It does not mean to stuff children's heads with a second hand view of the world. It may imply showing children how to think, but it certainly does not imply telling them what to think!

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Just adding my name to this thread so I get the e-mail updates as its certainly got my interest and would love to know more, my daughters school are not doing these cards and she was disgusted at what has been happening at another school where she has friends. Come on Tinks let us have another update as soon as possible.

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If you click on thread tools at the top of the page you can then subscribe to this thread and get the emails instead of posting.

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Not alot to report. I've made an appointment to see the teacher on Monday apparently he's very busy! Which serves to build my anger. The only development was the original teacher made quite an example of my little one today, which I'm far from happy about! She got my daughter on the corridor and said "I've found your card!" Then later went into her form room and ripped the card in half right in front of her face and said "there it's been destroyed!" in front of all her friends. Silly b***h!!

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

it sounds as though the head teacher is hoping you will forget about it if he or she leaves it as long as possible to see you

also what the teacher did to your child is intimidation and i would no longer be wanting to deal with the head teacher i would now be speaking to the education authorities oh and a solicitor

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I have the feeling your probably right chav.

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Just that act is disgusting in itself, and shows very, very poor teaching skills on his/her part.

That would add to my fury when you see the Head on Monday.

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Oh don't worry it has! I'd love to put on here exactly what I would like to do to the teacher if I get my hands on her!

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Tinks with what happened today, and being put off until Monday because the head id 'too busy' to see you, I'd be straight onto the blower to the national press. Your daughter can't be any more humiliated than she must have been today.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

I have mentioned to my little one that vitty was interested in running the story but she's very apprehensive about it. She's worried people will know the story is about her, which I can understand.

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Understandable that. Her feelings must come first.

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tinks you know you have my sympathy an everyone elses by the looks, the education authorites should definately be informed about the initial act,and also about whats happened since, the humiliation of your daughter is beyond forgiveness in my book.:mad:

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Tinks show this thread to your Daughter, it might make her feel better about publicising the issue when she sees how many are on her side. Though I can understand her reticense it does warrant showing the teachers up for what they are.
The treatment your Daughter recieved shows how they have no regards for her well being and I too would want to string her up.

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Tinks, you are absolutely right to make waves about this. Not only is it disgusting that parental consent was not sought in the first place, but the actions of the teacher since you went to see her have been nothing short of embarrassing, not only for your daughter but for the school and herself. I hope that this teacher is hanging her head in shame but I doubt it. It's up to you Tinks to make sure that she does. Before you see the head, write everything down, the date that the card was made, when you spoke to the teacher and what was said, the date that the teacher tore up the card in front of your daughter's classmates and any of your daughter's friends in that class who saw what happened. Do not let the headteacher bamboozle you into accepting what has happened as any form of education..... hit em with Acrylic-Bob's 'Educare' thingy...:D

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Tinks..... the teachers treatment of your daughter is appalling and I would be speaking to the head of Governors.....find out from the school who this is and then demand to see them......I would also be letting them know that you plan to take it further and involve the press. Grrrrrr! go get 'em!

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I just get more and more annoyed everytime I read this thread this cannot be allowed to happen.

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Left to nme Chav they would have no feelings at all.Sounds like an open invitation to trouble if you ask me.

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What happened today Tinks? I've been wondering all day, don't keep us in suspense too long.

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Yes come on Tinks, did you kick some?

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I bet they just gave you the run around until you get dissillusioned

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

Tinks probably marched into the school at 9.30am, and because she is smaller than most of the children probably got detention because she was late for assembly.

When they let you out, what's the latest news???

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This would have to be one of the longest school detentions ever. Still think she skelped the head one and is in a cell somewere.

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lol you lot, honestly!!! :D

No real update, the person I needed to speak to wasn't there, so I had to speak to her Head of Year, she knew nothing about it, said she will look into and ring me back tomorrow!!

Yes acertun ...... disillusioned is beginning to sum it up!

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Ring a ring a roses and other such school yard games spring to mind. Time to speak to the person who writes off the wages bill Tinks. Give no quarter, be fair and firm.

But I would suggest if this goes any longer without a resolution the emphasis will be lost and any position of strength will be lost to time. In other words few people will be interested after Christmas is over.

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Banging head and brick wall springs to my mind Doug!

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How predictable is that then. Sure they wernt hiding in the Thomas just to avoid you. They know they are in trouble and aint got the guts to admit it. A yellow streak the size of the M6.

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Yes Spug the different teachers I've now had to have communication with over this have had this mysterious nervous look appear on there faces ....... then it's pass the book time to another member of staff!

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Graphite powder shoulders a phenomenom that is becoming more widespread as the years go on.

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Don’t do that Tinks, It will hurt and eventually a little man will come and take you way, and let’s face it he’s only waiting for the slightest excuse…..:D :D :D

Time is nay, fight or flight, do it now or walk away and wait for the next time. They can out wait you and if you continue after Christmas you won’t hold on to the shock value.

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Refuse to speak to anyone else until you have seen the Head. If you are refused this then tell them you want the contact details for the Chair of school governers. It's time they stopped messing you around. And I have poseted as romps again - Neil :D

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He's banging on my door now, I've told him "your names not down your not coming in!" :D

I don't think there will be a next time, I get a distinct impression that things are going on between the staff behind the scenes. For instance, the female member of staff who told her to make the card originally was in with the Head Teacher on one of the occaisions I was told to ring and speak to her.

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I would be livid by this time if I hadn't been granted an audience with the Head over something so important.

I applaud your patience Tinks.

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I think you are being taken for a ride Miss T. Bell.

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It's not patience, what can I do my hands are tied!! I can appreciate it is a busy time of year for them. They finish school tomorrow for Christmas break, they are hoping thay can put me off and hope it just goes away .... I can tell what their game is!

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Chain yourself to his/her car.

You're too nice. Give, give, give.

Go on kick ass, I know you can.:rolleyes:

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I have thought about waiting for the Head unofficially after school (omg that sounds so childish like I'm gonna giver her a slap but you know what I mean :) ) because you can't get past the Heads secretary.

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The best way past the Doberman is by taking letters adressed to LCC HBC the school and the press (a formal written complaint that is) and let them know they are to be posted as the action by the school is not satisfactory. Then lets see how far they bend backwards to accomidate you.

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Tinks not to sure you'll be able to read this before school time, however here goes.

Go to the school with letters in hand (even if the envolopes are empty or have blanck sheets in them at this time) with the addresses of the
LEA,
HBC,
Mr/Mrs MP of your area,
The Education Dept in Whitehall,
The Right Hon Mr A Blair 10 Downing Street London EC10
and just state to the desk bound lady that if you have not been able to see the head by end of school and feel satisfied with the outcome of the meeting then these letters WILL BE POSTED on your way home. If you have to just put the http address of this link (not sure how to do that but hope someone else will answwer that one) and then post them off.


I feel really disgusted at what has happened here and wish i could express my feelings more

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Area Education Office
The Globe
St James Square
ACCRINGTON
BB5 ORE
Telephone : 01254 220736

Hon Greg Pope MP
149 Blackburn Road
Accrington
Lancs BB5 0AA

Telephone: 01254 382283

Rt Hon Tony Blair MP
10 Downing Street
London SW1.

Hon Ruth Kelly MP
Sanctuary Buildings, London
Department for Education and Skills
Sanctuary Buildings
Great Smith Street
London
SW1P 3BT


Hope this Helps Tinks, Dont Stop Badgering them.

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A-B saw you looking and wondering what you might put thanks for getting that info for tinks I will have to learn to surf 'tinternet better

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Less matey not a bad idea will send an e mail on to sky as sometimes they get in to stuff like this.

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Copied and pasted it in Tinks as i have 3 weeks off i will wait and see if there is any answer or even if it makes it on to the programme

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Go for it Tinks and insist on seeing the head today..... Don't take no for an answer they're not that busy in the run up to Christmas. A relative of mine works at a comprehensive school and all they are doing are shows and fun stuff this week. It sounds like they are hoping that if they put you off enough you will let it drop. The one sure fire way of getting a comment from the school would be to put it in the paper...:D

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I've spoken to Vitty this morning.

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Good on you T. You gave them a chance and they snubbed it so now they have to face the fall out for it.

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It's not done maliciously or anything Spug it's just to see if Vitty can get answers were I can't. They fobbed me off on the phone again this morning, said he'd be very busy all day with the Carol Service, he's been busy for close to 2 weeks now!!

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Busy cleaning his underwear would be closer to the mark. It is not malicious in any way shape or form as you are doing what any resposible parent would do to protect their children.

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I don’t think that anyone would consider your actions malicious Tinks. You’ve tried to talk to them and express your concerns; they are the ones who have failed to respond appropriately.

I personally don’t think they have left you with any other option but to seek the support else were. Perhaps other parents affected the same way or those still in the dark to these event will join the ranks and help bring this situation to a satisfactory conclusion. The School may then learn the valuable lesson of listening to parents………

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Right I've just spoke to vitty on the telephone, he will post himself later what the school have said.

Basically the Deputy Head asured vitty that none of the cards are going to convicted rapists or murderers but are Prisoners of conscience and the only crime they have committed is their religion not being that of the country they live in or speaking out against the Government of their country.

I don't have a problem with this at all but why couldn't someone from the school have just answered and told me this in the first place!

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

I'd like to know how the deputy head could be assured of this? The only way to be sure is to not send any in the first instance.

I personally still think it is a very misguided act and the response of teh teacher and the school is nothing short of diabolical. I would still be looking for a formal apology for the way the teacher embarrassed your daughter in front of her friends at teh very least.

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hang on a minuite..

i think the head is talking bullsh*t

so where did this piece of paper come from then...?

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At the end of the day Tinks the school have acted abominablly, both to you and your daughter. In the first instance they should have sought your permission BEFORE asking your daughter to write the card along with a full explaination as to who these cards were being sent. Secondly you should have been able to see the head the day you first made the query. They would have expected you to be in school immediately if your daughter had done something wrong for which she could have been excluded. If you didn't they would treat you as an uncaring parent. Surely communication works both ways.

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Because they have been sending cards for Amnesty for many years

The response yes, the Head of R.E has just got back to me in the last few minutes after all this time!

I had very strong words with him about this bit and he assures me he will be speaking to her.

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No I don't think it's bullsh*t chav, what would be the point in them filling vitty with it. It looks like mine and quite a few of the kids in the class have got the wrong end of the stick some were about the convictions. The Deputy told vitty that they had been learning something about crimes and punishment and the kids have obviously got mixed up some were along the lines! I will be speaking to my little one when she gets home again and see if she knows the mix up and try to explain it to her.

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This I totally agree with!!

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That is just attrocious. Don't give up. I've not read all the replies as it's such a long post so not sure if this has been suggested but why don't type a letter and print out enough copies for your daughter to give to her class mates. The letter is to be addressed to the parents, maybe some are not aware of this or even of the type of people they are being asked to contact. Group protesters will behard to ignore when you knock on the heads door. I'm sure there will be support for you with this.

In fact....contact the local news desk on ITV too

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Looks like this is the guy in question, found out some info after the Deputy told vitty (a re-occurence of the the Deputy telling vitty more than I have been told in the last 2 weeks :( )

On 20 February 1998 Jawed Khan was sentenced to death after being charged with murder. He was only 14 years old at the time of the alleged offence. Legislation introduced in Pakistan in July 2000 prohibits the death penalty for offences committed by those under 18.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/images/ul/...an_150_200.jpg Jawed Khan © Private

More info on his case at http://www.amnesty.org.uk/gcc/2005/cases/jawed/

I don't know were the rape bit came from, but it's obvious with the murder conviction.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

Does age matter Tinks an act of murder is murder in any language or religion, I accept that not all people held in foreign prisons are guilty, but guilty or otherwise anyone suggesting to children that they should send a Christmas card to a prisoner is wrong.

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If all this were true.....why did it take the school so long to respond to the query.....to me it smacks of a cover-up.....and they have taken their time so that they could all be singing from the same hymn sheet. I would still not be happy at the way the issue has been handled.....for instance the humiliation of your daughter by the teacher who tore up the card.....her actions need to be questioned.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

I have spoken to the school who insist their pupils did not send cards to murderers and rapists.

They said the school send cards to 'prisoners of conscience' - people put in prison solely for their religious beliefs.

The pupil's association with rapists and murders seems to have come from previous lessons in which case studies of the way different justice systems from around the world deal with these types of crimes.

The school said it will consider issuing parental consent forms in the future, but has never had a problem with this initiative before and has only had the one complaint.

It regrets that it took so long for this matter to be put straight.

As a result, we won't be running a story on it.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

That may or may not be the case. From Tinkerbelle's point of view the way her daughter was humiliated, when her card was ripped up infront of the class, still deserves an explanation.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

Did the school inform you the source of their list of religious prisoners?

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Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

I've just looked at Amnesty International's scheme for sending cards to prisoners of conscience. The list doesn't include any murderers or rapists, but then it wouldn't. I still think Tinks deserves a full explanation from the Head.

www.amnestyusa.org/action/holiday/

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

One can only be assured that these people are Christian, notwithstanding that fact it would depend if a crime as been committed in respect of those beliefs. What would happen if Muslim Children were asked to send supportive religious messages to terrorists? Who’s crimes were committed for their religious beliefs. Same argument, different perspective. This story should be told, if not in the press then in an explanatory letter to the parents of the children concerned.

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No rapists, yes I agree ..... but murderer ..... what the hell are they classing Jawad Khan as?

I swear to God I feel like I'm losing the plot !!

I'm going to find a quiet corner and swear very loudly to myself !! :mad:

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

I have just been reading the link you posted Tinks. This is a bit from it
So why send Christmas cards when it asks you not too?

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Whether or not the recipients of these cards were meant to be "prisoners of conscience" I don't believe the school had the right to demand that pupils write them. There are political implications here as well as so called religious and social ones and it is no part of a school's business to involve pupils, directly, in these matters.

Perhaps it should also be borne in mind that some, perhaps many, of the intended recipients would not be Christians. Would any Christian be cheered to receive a "Happy Hannukkah" card or a "Merry Diwali" one? Would it mean anything to them?

The teacher in question, obviously earnest, well-meaning and thoroughly misguided, should be left in no doubt that the action was wrong. As to ripping up your daughter's card, he/she should apologise for a blatant display of childish ill-temper.

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

Just for the record, the school also assured me that none of the cards went to Mr Khan.

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Yet if there is one murderer on the list it stands to reason there will be others. Just how can the school guarantee that none went to anyone accused of something other than religious crime. And even then as others have mentioned, one mans religious crime is another mans terrorism.

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I would be looking for a written gaurentee it would not happen again and not that Mr Khan did not receive one.

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I think that you have been lied to and conned by the people in charge Tinks. You have to abide by the rules while they hide the truth and resort to intimidation . Thats the way of the politically correct brigade.

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read the thread all the way and come to this conclusion! seems to me like you have been conned tinks(due to your good nature) this is a blatant cover up. surprised the observor will not run the story! they soon run stories of kids bullying- but not it seems of kids being bullyed, which is what the teacher was guilty of -to me, i think you have been treated disgacefully by the school tinks, as well as your daughter, but something like that obviously is not newsworthy, have a lovely xmas tinks and stuff the school and the local paper.

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Cheers Cashy. The conversation and vittys post about Mr Khan has actually thrown up more questions for me than answers. I can’t blame the school as I really don’t believe the school, as a whole, is to blame. It honestly is a good school! After numerous conversations with my daughter it looks to me like it is one bad member of staff and her inability to teach! I was never comfortable about it going to press, for my daughters sake but vitty did me a huge favour …. they actually got in touch with me when all my efforts had failed.

All I can say is the last fortnight has been like banging my head against a brick wall but I do swear one thing ………. that same teacher EVER causes my daughter concern like that again, however minor, she REALLY WILL wish she had chose another profession!

Re: In Our Thoughts!
 

The only consolation out of all this is that your daughter has been able to talk to you about it and voice her concerns to you. That shows that she probably has more respect for you than for her teacher!

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At least she can talk to her mother most wouldnt. Shows trust as well as respect.

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If the school had nothing to hide there is no logical reason why they couldn't explain it all to you when you first enquired and that would have saved your daughter he indignity of the way she was treated by her teacher.

I still think it's wrong of the school to get the pupils to send cards to these prisoners whatever the reason for their imprisonment. Something like that should be done by a willing sender after they have learned as much about the case as possible.

The fact that they've had children doing this for years still doesn't make it right.