Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

I know, I know........... You all knew that I would comment on this one but it appears that ASH have got this totally wrong.

The figure of 234 deaths is from 2001 and not 2002. It is printed in the 2002 tables but HIV surveillance always applies to the cases and deaths from the year before, therefore it applies to 2001. If you check the SOPHID website you will see that this is correct.

Secondly.... People do not die from HIV, they die from AIDS. I know that this is being picky, but I hate it when so-called educated organisations, who spout statistics cannot be bothered to get their facts right. AIDS is a set of defined clinical illnesses which are caused by HIV infection. When people develop AIDS, they will die. They can live a near normal lifespan these days with HIV. HIV does not kill until it develops into AIDS. Therefore the 234 people who died in 2001 died from AIDS and not HIV.:D

Yes......... I am nit picking, but this is quickly becoming my specialist subject due to impending dissertation. I have all of these tables since 2000 on hard copy if anybody would like to see them...:D

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Yes, I knew thse results were a little off, but it was the best I could do at the time. And yes, of course people do not die of HIV.

Good luck with the dissertation, thankfully I am finished with all that.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

So the anti smoking brigade has finally got their way and smoking is to be banned in all enclosed public spaces although prisons and care homes will be exempt from the ban.

By definition an enclosed public place is a building where the general public can enter either voluntarily or by invitation. The thought occurs that if someone comes into my flat to visit me does that make it a public place? If I give someone a lift in my car does that make it an enclosed public space? Will smoking be banned? It is MY flat and MY car and if a visitor tried to make me stop smoking in their presence then they know where the door is.

In years to come when the incidence of asthma in the young has not decreased they can target the true villains – the internal combustion engine and industry.

This smoking in enclosed public places is the thin end of the “control the public wedge” together with ID cards and the advocates of it will rue the day they forced it through.

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Higher tax on EVERYTHING - it takes a lot of petrol to replace £24 million a day.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

I feel sorry for the landlords and employers who are now going to have to be the ones that police the new law. If they don’t stop people from lighting-up on their premises they could be in for a hefty fine them selves. It will be the landlords and employers who will have to put-up with the agro.

The other day our gaffer told one of our firm’s smokers that if he got caught smoking on his premises not only would the smoker get a fine, the employer would be fined a few hundred quid as well for permitting it. So obviously he is now concerned about the possiblity of one day someone turning up and catching someone smoking and issuing big fines. So quite rightly he will stop the smoking

You have to laugh thou in this particular case. Hehe the nature of our work means that we, more often than not have fumes all around us most of the day, it can not be helped. Being in the fabrication business means you have people welding, flame cutting, grinding, sanding etc and we even have our own paint shop with its own oven. All these things produce nasty fumes, even though you can’t often see the fumes you can smell and taste them. We do have adequate ventilation in a fashion but to be honest you are never going to be able to remove all the fumes, it’s just impossible. There are heath and safety regulations in place that cover these sorts of things and I’m sure the health and safety people have the power to issue fines or even shut companies down if they are caught breaking the regulations but no one ever comes to check and as a result, no ones really worried.
But if one person potentially lights a cigarette in this environment and produces a bit of smoke for five minutes then everyone is worried.
:rofl38: :rofl38:

I think the blanket ban is a good idea really. It will take a bit of time to get used too but I’m sure we will. If anything, it will cut down the amount of fags that I smoke. :)

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You are awkward :p Thats like saying smoking does not kill you, cancer does or guns don't it's the bullets :D

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Fact. Revenue from tobacco = £10.5 billion per annum.
Cost to NHS of smoking-related diseases £1.5 billion.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Len reminded me of when I worked at a major London hospital. I went into medical records one day, and one of the men there was in the middle of the stacks, with a cigarette going. When I (politely) pointed out that it was a non-smoking area, and that anyway it was rather dangerous dropping hot ash amongst old papers, I was told "I'm the Unison shop steward. I can do what I F****** well like".

Wonder if the blanket ban will apply to him?

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This law caused a small argument at the Asda taxi rank tonight. The rank is in the carpark area which is under the store and a women lit here fag and was promptly derided for it by a mother with her 2 kids. She said she did not want her kids inhailing the fag smoke as it was bad for them and asked for it to be put out. The other women was suprised as she did not consider it a public area and considering the carpark is underground the kids were more likley to suffer from the car fumes as oppossed to the fag. The mother was mad when the other women would not put it out and a "debate" started. Considering the amount of cars in the area I am suprised we didnt get carbon monoxide poisoning. It seems this whole argument is going to get out of hand.

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Just don't move to Glasgow Spug, it's now illegal to smoke in public parks there.

With the wind and rain lashing in from the Clyde, I was always chuffed to little bits if I got my cigarette to light, whilst sat on Glasgow Green.

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That's an example of the brain-washing of the British Public. The anti-smoking ethos started in the USA, where the combustion engine is King. They couldn't blame respitory diseases on cars and general air-pollution so the expendible culprit must be, exclusively, tobacco. When America sneezes Britain catches a cold so we had to follow suit. That's not to say that smoking isn't a health risk but it's not the only one.

The message has been hammered into the skulls of Britons so successfully that it has produced paranoia amongst many people. The mother who becomes hysterical if cigarette smoke comes within 6 feet of her child will, happily, push that child round in a buggy - at exhaust pipe level - for an afternoon's shopping.

I'm not anti-ban or pro-smoking but the whole issue has become irrational.

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Lets just say, I was a 20 a day smoker. I got pregnant and stopped, immedately. It was the best thing I ever did, for the safety of my baby and me. I never suffered bronchitis again. I never suffered tonsillitis again. Both of which had haunted me.

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Whilst on holiday in Scotland about 10 years hence, with son and 2 of his mates, went to visit one of those 'wood' farms. After enjoyable tour of same, went for welcome brew in their tea cafe .. should have grown up hippy years ago, entered with his family. His face lit up with delight as he spotted me.

The cafe was not busy and he purposely sat on the next table to give him an opportuntiy to come over and ask me to 'extinguish' me fag as wasn't 'very nice'. He was wearing the most gaudy, mis-match .. course pure wool waistcoat, ever seen adorning a male body and I told him I found this garment 'not very nice' and sure that my retina was taking an overbashing of variegation.

Ok .. had to find some sort of answer to his bullying in front of the lads who were slipping slowly under the table. That's how mad things will become when all bullys have finished with the easy targets. Don't laugh folks ! Wait and see :eek:

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Just wonder how long it will be before there is the first case of harassment brought against a woman like this for complaining if you are smoking in an open space. .. it will happen eventually.

Whilst working in Virginia for a short time, lady I worked with was sat in one of the National Parks (barbecues all ablaze) and somebody there asked her to put out her cigarette (not because of forestry laws, etc) ... and she DID ! 'cause lovely lady and she didn't want any trouble. Think I may have reacted in a slightly different way. ;)

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if this ban does stop people from buying fags think of all the extra tax that will have to be found,what will be the next thing to be outlawed?

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whhat! a person on here thinking with a brain :eek: you shock me carole, i didnt think there was anyone on accyweb that could think ! well done lass, 200.000 people supposed to give up in the first month ! the tax loss on that would be incredible, and for the people that follow after all the job loses ? equates to a huge amount of money not going in the coffers at gov...hq,so who has to pick up the bill.................you non smokers take a deep breath and pay higher taxes....pmsl :D

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i don't smoke never had an so it doesn't bother me really in a fact but
i would welcome a smoking ban my honest truth

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

just to add i have recently worked in sweden were the same ban was in place with no problem an now i'm currently working in lockport in new york state usa an the same ban here an the people just get on with it so it the same all over just get on with it

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It's not only the smokers and non smokers who are involved in this subject.. think of the publicans who are trying there best to keep there ships afloat. How many 'local' pubs have we seen go under in the last ten years? i can name a few..Antly, woodnook, queens, Peel Park, kings until recently, same with the nags head, New brewery, white horse Huncoat, Royal oak and the globe on bb road.

The amount of tax they make on alcohol should have been ploughed back into decent extraction units, subsidised by the govt.

Do we all remember after black wednesday...17p on our cigs...5p on our pint, road tax, inheritance tax, capital gains, and the dreaded POLL TAX!

This govt is not far different from the 'rule with the iron fist' approach we had to struggle and live with in the dark days of the eighties!

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Won't have any choice Doozer, but might as well get our moans over with first. :mad:

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Sweden?

The country with very little commercial hostelries, and the highest priced alcohol in the world, and the highest suicide rates?:p

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They don't need to go out, they are all too busy holding there own private parties at home ;)

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So the government brings in a blanket smoking ban, but allows extended drinking....I hesitate to say 24 hour drinking because it isn't.......so they swap one lethal habit for the population to indulge in the other.......and it is still a killer!..........No problem with paying out pensions if the youth of today booze themselves into oblivion........and the old folk freeze to death!

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A fella bought me a bottle of angel perfume n i really like the smell except its soo strong so much so i cant wear it (45 quid a bottle!:eek: ) but would rather have to put up with that than smoke,i really want to smack people who smoke round my lil' un....give yourself diseases n try n kill yourself but please dont do it to a baby who can't even walk away!
ABOUT TIME THEY DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT I SAY :not_ripe:

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Spud it was called the White Lion. It was at one time a good pub but went down hill faster than a bobslay team.

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I have never smoked and I don't intend to, and I don't have a problem with people smoking where I am, whether it is in pubs or restaurants it is fine by me. The people who do have a problem I find are mostly ex smokers who have quit and think they have an axe to grind, to these I say "get a life" if that is all they have to worry about then they are lucky, and the same goes for the namby pamby politicians who make these stupid laws and expect others (Landlords, Bar Staff, Waiters etc..) to enforce them.

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Fine, as long as you don't let your baby scream within my earshot.

Noise pollution drives me mad.:D

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i don't have a problem with smoking or not smoking its up yourselfs,what happened to freedom of choice and all that, and as for babys crying thats ok as well, we've all been babys at some time or other, ive had 3 of my own, and after all they are the only truley innocent voices that we ever hear, but have we all gone enforcement mad! whats the next enforcement, which side of the pavement to use depending on which direction were walking? will coughing in the street become a crime because were polluting the atmosphere how will they identify us will we have to wear big numbers on our backs? theres so many other serious and worrying events happening around us. will they have smoking wardens? hiding around corners just waiting to pounce and earn another brownie point!!! or will they expect the very people, who WILL suffer in lost revenue (the publicans) to report all smoking action....... i just think we've all gone barking mad and need to concentrate on the bigger problems in our society.....:)

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I don't want to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of smoking, we have all been there and done that, at considerable length in other posts.

I really couldn't care less about the health of non-smokers who choose to work in premises where smoking takes place. How stupid is that? If they are that concerned over the consequences of sois-dissant passive smoking I connot easily imagine why any sane rational person would wish to put themselves at such risk? And as for poisoning babies with cigarette smoke - there are some who might look on that as something of a public service.

The thing that really concerns me about this is the gradual whittling away of the freedoms that were won, often at great cost, by previous generations, often for the most trivial and spurious of reasons by successive governments who are desperate to be seen to be doing something - anything to justify the enormous amounts of our money that they administer on our behalf.

I am greatly concerned that our government appears unwilling to regard any of us as having suffient maturity and independence of mind to be able to succesfully navigate the daily hazards of life without their regulating every nanosecond of of our experience of it.

If I have one message to give to the Honorable Members of Parliament it is this; keep your sticky noses out of things that need not concern you, pay the bills and shut the F**k up!

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

my thoughts exactly

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Talking of freedoms fought for, we have a box sent to my great Grandfather, along with all the other Tommy's fighting at the front in WW1 at Christmas 1914, from Princess Mary.

'With thanks from a greatful Nation. Please find enclosed your cigarettes. Please only smoke in open trenches, so as not to bother your non-smoking brothers in arms.'

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that is beautiful ....you must be very proud,,,,:engsmil:

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Cheeky bleeders.

Just heard on the news that the Houses of Commons and Westminster will be exempt from the smoking ban because they fall under Royal Palaces, thus the MPs will still be able to have a fag in their bars.

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I don't suppose anyone expected anything else Rindy. It has crossed my mind, though...........should I fancy wandering around a palace, after paying the entrance fee, I'll be entitled to have a ciggie........happen not!

June x

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Good point, shall we try it??? ;)

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Beware: In my town, Kingston, On. Canada, we've had the ban 2yrs. Bars closed, servers and bar staff laid off (many of them single minimum wage parents) the economy sagging, US tourism way down. Put more effort into education of youth. E

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There are not so many pub regulars (I mean every night of the week) who don't smoke, alot of pubs rely on the midweek trade (darts and dominoes etc) to keep their heads above water, and the pub regulars supply this midweek trade. I think that once you can't go out and have a fag with your pint, smokers will drink at home. On top of the ridiculous price of beer I think this is the final nail in the licence trade coffin and more boarded up pubs. As if the pub trade isn't hard enough.

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No wonder G is right about it being a cheek. Ban it everywhere else but not on their own patch. Talk about one rule for us one for them. Stinks of "do as I say not as I do." :mad:

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To firefighters point about pubs loosing out I wonder if supermarket bosses are rubbing their hands together at the prospect of more booze sales and profit increase due to it. Darts dominoes and pool leagues are a great way to unwind and have some friendly compitition midweek and does bring in the pennies. Have we reached the stage were the trditional local could go under?

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Heard short news item on the Friday after the smoking ban came in on the Monday ?? (not sure which day). Said had been a huge success, but not why .. maybe they just asked the people who were the non smokers in the pubs ? Think they should have waited until weekend before any assessment was done !!

Any obsevations from up there Spuggie ??

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There have been a few incedents of people sparking up but most just mill about outside very unhappy. Not because they have to smoke outside but because the law says you cant drink on the street so fag no booze booze no fag. There has been a drop in custom even at my local which because it has a beer garden they can drink and smoke there. Will take a month or two for any real effects to register but it aint looking good.

Its not just the pubs clubs cafes etc the bookies have the same problem. Here there is a marked drop as most people treated it like a cinima and stayed untill what they were watching had finished. This ment they might put on an extra bet or 2. Now they just pay and run.

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I was thinking that too Spuggie about the booze and fags, now certain areas in Accy where you cannot take your drink outside .. would have to leave it to go and have a fag .. go back and hey, where my drink gone ??

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

One way for the landlord to keep a steady level of booze sales. :D Wonder if it crossed Staggers's mind?

Then again someone could get pie-eyed at no cost bringing a new meaning to a very cheap night out (beware of students).

If a smoker out for a drink DONT FORGET YOUR WALLIES IF YOU DONT WANT TO LOSE YOUR DRINK. :D

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Ah so why some lass leaves her drink on the bar, could be any bar, wnywhere, anytown, and goes outside for a fag, some guy slips date rape drugs in it.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

This smoking ban is more about controlling the public’s activities than for health reasons. It also puts citizen against citizen and whilst we argue it out the government quietly gets about its business of doing what it wants and in general that is not what we want.

The next step a few years down the line will be the banning of private internal combustion vehicles for the masses on the grounds of passive breathing in of vehicle fumes and global warming.

We are galloping towards the Big Brother scenario or the way that the masses were depicted in Soylent Green and Blade Runner.

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Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

You may scoff and try to ridicule people Less but nonetheless the masses portrayed in those two films is where we are heading.

You may not agree with my view but I reserve the right to make it without some supercilious twit trying to put it down.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

I would love to go back to Glasgow, and pop in the rough old dives up Maryhill Road, to see who has dared tell the Weegie hardmen they can't have a Woodbine with their pint of heavy.

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Agree with that G. There will be some daft sod that will try it. Those that do might meet Malky.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

I read on a website (thesite.org, I think) that the government had "not yet made a decision" about smoking in cars carrying passengers. If they decide that I can't have a fag in my own car because I'm giving someone a lift, sod the lift! How will this affect car pooling - another way they are trying to cut down on congestion and pollution?
And where on earth can you smoke in a hospital?!? Next time I go for a check-up at Queen's Park Hospital, I won't even be allowed to have one in their car park with my windows rolled up (giving me the maximum benefit from my very expensive fag!) I can see it now - all us smokers 'waiting' on double yellow lines at the entrance to the car park with our engines running so that we don't get a parking ticket. Two pollutants for the price of one :D
Someone beat me to the date rape drug in your unattended drink comment, but I will add that I see a few people leave their drinks with bouncers in pubs to go outside to make a phone call - what happens if all the smokers have to do that now? A bouncer babysitting 20 pints goes off to extracte a drunken troublemaker, and gets sued by the person who's drink gets spiked because he left in his care?
Insurance companies are going to make a mint too it seems.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

You have obviously gone beyond the help that tablets can give but, please try to get a grip!

They are Science fiction the place I and everyone else, with the obvious exception of yourself live in is the real world.

As for your supercilious twit remark I will allow you in your deranged state of mind to get away with it and will only urge and encourage you to seek medical help before your situation gets any worse.

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Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

The smoking ban at East Lancs Trust came into force on 1st December 2005. In my opinion, it is failing miserably. They have the staff by the short and curlies, but patients and visitors are a different matter. Patients and visitors are still smoking at the entrances, security does nothing about it. Many of the nursing staff say nothing, myself included.. It is not my job to receive a gobful of abuse from visitors as I am going into work. Staff are going off the premesis during their breaks. Nursing staff do not get paid for their break time like the police do, so they are technically entitled to leave the premesis.

So don't worry about your fag when you come for hospital appointments.....Nobody else does..:D

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Was it banned at the hospital because all there blankets were being smoked? Only thing is "HOW DO YOU SMOKE A BLANKET?"

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

I don't quite understand what they base this proposed ban on Rach. Rule should be, as in California, any public place with a roof. Surely, the ban was enforced purely to protect the non-smokers and now they wish to own the fresh air on their land. Not doing any harm having a drag in the car park as far as I can tell, even with windows open, so what is the reason ? Now, that really smacks of big brother and controlling to me :eek:

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When the smoking ban comes into force and bear in mind that it hasn’t yet, the ban will apply to all ENCLOSED PUBLIC SPACES and the operative word here is ENCLOSED. I understand enclosed to mean a building with a roof and walls all the way around and closable entry points – that is doors. Thus a bus shelter will not fall into that category – no doors except that the owner of a bus shelter can decree that smoking in the bus shelter is not allowed or is allowed.

As far as car parks are concerned the owner of the car park can stipulate that smoking is banned even though it is not an ENCLOSED PUBLIC SPACE. But that would be hugely hypocritical seeing as the air will be full of noxious, poisonous and deadly vehicle exhaust fumes at peak times and this throws into question ‘fresh air’. The so called fresh air that we all breathe is nothing of the sort. In fact the oxygen content of the ‘fresh air’ is some 3% less than what it was 50 years ago.

However many of the non smoking brigade are already quoting the ban as just PUBLIC SPACES. That’s a bit like kicking a person when they are down.

The non smoking brigade will rue the day that they set off on that trail because all it has done is to establish a precedent that the governments will exploit to the full in the years to come so that they can control the citizens to the Nth degree.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Still very confusing though butty, 'ain it... you mean they can pronounce you can't have a fag in their car park ?? Can they also say you cannot eat your sandwich in your car ? Chew chewing gum, let out obnoxious gases .. like methane (sure you get this drift).. oh yeh, breathe, gosh carbon monoxide on exhaling god forbid. Will this be the next step ?? I'm definitely confused with all this. :confused: :confused:

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I guess they could if they wanted to katex. After all it is their property and as such they can decree what can and cannot happen in it subject to the laws of the land.

I wonder how long it will be before it dawns on councils, housing associations and private landlords that they could ban the tenants from smoking in their property when they rent it? Just to put the boot in a bit further.

The same might apply to Motability leased vehicles.

Yet amidst all this as I understand it prisoners in jail will be allowed to smoke but not the warders. The same will probably apply to prisoners in police cells.

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The council up hear JB wont visit if there is a smoker in the house who has had their fix within the previous hour of a visit. Bit of a bummer if they dont give a time of a visit.

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All that surprises me is that people are surprised that MPs retain for themselves the right to smoke in the bars and elsewhere in their work place. I have it on good authority (from an MP) that several members came from the bar, having put out their last fags, and went through the Aye lobby - knowing full well that it would not apply to them!

Don't do as I do, do as I say - ring any bells with anyone?

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

think you meant carbon Dioxide from breathing cardon monoxide is what kills you when gas fires etc are not serviced or flues blocked oh and from petrol engines (not as much from diesel i'm told)

I am a smoker and will just have to party at home when the ban comes in

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Yeh, tee hee, did mean Carbon Dioxide of course, what goes on in my brain these days, doesn't always reach the tips of my fingers at the keyboard :rolleyes:

Thanks for publicly pointing out the error of my ways :s_oops:

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Well it had to happen one owner fined £200 in Glasgow.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

I wonder how they will be able to tell when you had your last cigarette before their visit SPUGGIE J? A spy camera in you living room?

I remember reading somewhere quite a while back that if a tradesman calls to fix something in your house and you smoke whilst he is there, he can legitimately walk out in complaint. Imagine the scene – he has your washer in pieces and you walk in the kitchen with a fag in your mouth to make a brew. He takes one whiff of the smoke and packs his tools up and walks out.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Its gonna get intrestin mi thinks.

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Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Hehehehe....... Most people want to live, but lets face it.....We could be hit by a bus tomorrow. Life is to be enjoyed..:D

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Do you drive razor?

If you don’t you must use public transport or walk and cycle EVERYWHERE.

I assume that you buy goods from various shops and these goods are delivered by some form of motorised vehicle. The deadly exhaust fumes from these vehicles poison the air that I breathe.

I am being killed by exhaust fumes generated by your desire for food and clothing etc and the need to get from A to B.

So who is being selfish?

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

Well lets ban drinking so people aint killed by drunk drivers or get beat up in the street. There's 2 sides to everything and has to be looked at objectively.

Re: Blanket Smoking Ban
 

It's a wonderful world we live in where because of the P.C. brigade people that can legally smoke a persecuted to the point that their lives are now at risk because they are not allowed to smoke in their work grounds.

I wonder how many more vulnerable people are going to be forced into dangerous situations just to keep the nanny brigade happy. I suppose if you are really callous you could say it serves them right, they don't have to smoke, but surely for personal safety's sake employers can let people like that poor nurse smoke in the car Park?

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My place stuck up bus shelters for the smokers and the end result is an increase in colds and flu.

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Tasmania was the first state in Australia, to ban smoking in all pubs, clubs, hotels & restaurants, as of 1st Jan, this year, if you want to smoke outside, you have got to be at least 5 metres from the door. they have lost quite a bit of trade, more people are getting take aways, and drinking at home. Its mainly the pubs that have suffered, restaurants have had no smoking for some time. The other states will follow next year. PS they are now considering baning smoking in cars.

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I wish some people in my family would quit my grandad started at age 12 and still smokes loud and proud also my dad also has smoked from a very young age of 14 and said he'd stop 10 years ago then last years to but no further results!!!