Fairtrade Fortnight
 

For your information the annual fair trade fortnight runs this week and next week. For further information, visit www.fairtrade.org.uk

Hyndburn is currently trying to achieve Fairtrade status and residents of Hyndburn are being asked to buy at least one item of Fairtrade goods each week to support this.

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I'll ask because I am sure you will know the answer.
Why do we want Hyndburn to have fair trade status?
What do we get out of it?

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There is a big who ha at the minute as people like Nestle have been granted fair trade status for some of their stuff but this is a company that is anything but Fair trade,

I would much rather 'fair trade' with local suplliers, I buy my veg etc from the market, meat from a butcher with a local farm, dairy etc from another farmer.

Doesn't cost anything extra only a little more of my time but teh quality is better

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I was going to try to answer it myself but the Prospects Foundation's website does it so much better.


Help the PROSPECTS Foundation's Fairtrade Campaign by looking for the Fairtrade logo when buying a bottle of wine or a bar of chocolate.

The PROSPECTS Foundation began a campaign in January 2003 to make Hyndburn a Fairtrade Borough. The idea was originally suggested at an Oswaldtwistle Area Council meeting in June 2002, and the Foundation set up a steering group to push forward the campaign in late 2002.


The aim of the campaign is to persuade Hyndburn retailers and caterers to sell Fairtrade products such as tea, coffee and chocolate, which guarantee the producers in the developing world as a fair price for their product.


In order to achieve Fairtrade status for the borough the steering group needs to find 17 retail outlets and 9 catering outlets that would be willing to sell or serve at least two Fairtrade products.


Support for the campaign has been generated with around 600 people signing support sheets at various events held in the borough.


Hyndburn Borough Council has shown its support by passing a resolution to use only Fairtrade tea and coffee in it's meetings.


Members of the Steering Group recently went on a visit to Garstang, the World's first Fairtrade Town as they thought it would be beneficial to the Hyndburn campaign by sharing ideas, discussing problems and seeing what a Fairtrade town actually looks like.


The group met Bruce Crowther of the Garstang OXFAM Group who talked through the process of how Garstang became a Fairtrade town and gave advice on Hyndburn's Fairtrade Campaign. He then took the group on a tour of the town, visiting shops that have agreed to sell Fairtrade products before finishing with lunch at the Coffee Pot Café, where most of the food sold is either made from Fairtrade ingredients or is locally produced.


The following shops and catering outlets already qualify as Fairtrade outlets in Hyndburn:
Retail outlets:
• OXFAM, Accrington
• ASDA, Accrington
• Co-op, Great Harwood
• Co-op, Oswaldtwistle
• Co-op, Clayton-le-Moors
• Co-op, Rishton
Catering Outlets:
• Tiffany's Café at Haworth Art Gallery
• New Era centre, Accrington
• ASDA Café, Accrington


For further information please contact Mike Stapleford at the PROSPECTS Foundation.

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Basically it's about getting quality foods but not at the cost of the people from developing countries.

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It might encourage free trade for local shops if HBC don't grant planning permission to greatly expand the retail park at Whitebirk.

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Will we have signs when entering Hyndburn, saying 'welcome to a Freetrade Borough'?

I remember living in loony Lambeth in the mid 80's, signs were erected informing me that I was living in a 'nuclear free borough', though I don't remember having a say on what my taxes were spent on, regarding armaments.

How much would the bill be for the council coffee slurpers, if it didn't use Freetrade coffee, and what about tea? Can't they find a Freetrade Earl Gray?:D

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well i do my bit and buy fair trade when ever i can and when i can afford it i know it expencive but i feel i am doing my bit when i buy something like cookies or a bsar of chocolate and they are really tasty.

oh and does seling fair trade as past of a church count towards the bourgh fair trade thingy?

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My best advice to everyone who has read this thread is to ignore it. "Fair Trade" is a scam to get people to cough up far more than they need to in purchasing their everyday foodstuffs. It is already bad enough being in the Common Market and having to fork out twice as much as neccessary for food.

All this racket does is to pay for for various middle class soft southern lefties as they jet off on three month trips to various exotic places to seemingly negotiate higher prices for inefficient peasant farmers' produce. (In reality, it is a holiday junket).

You may as well just stick your money in the Oxfam tin; It's the same thing - sod all of it will get to the third world poor - 95% of the additional money will be spent on over-inflated salaries, travel & marketing, while the other 5% will line the pockets of the usual corrupt local bureaucrats.

Spend your money down the pub instead.

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St Johns Baxenden have a fair trade stall

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Once again you are doing your usual thing of jumping down the throat of anything that sounds remotely worthy. If you insist on knocking this then come up with facts that support what you've said. Don't just state things as fact when you have absolutely nothing to back them up.

And as usual your sole answer to everything is to go to the pub - very productive!

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You began this thread, Gayle, so I would respectfully suggest that the onus is on you to prove the worth of this particular cause. Accrington is not a wealthy town - it is one of the poorest in the country - so I am wondering why you are encouraging those who can least afford it to give their money to this dubious enterprise.

Chancellor Brown has already written off billions of our money that is third world debt, our taxes have been raised to pay for more billions in aid - in reality to prop up one stinking, rotten, corrupt regime after another - and now you are asking us to fork out more money at the check-out till.

Please. Give us a break. No wonder I need to go down the pub.

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I don’t disagree Gayle, I farmed in Garstang on a regular basis and I aware of there status, I also shop at Sainsbury’s in Bispham and regularly purchase Fair Trade goods. But it is somewhat of a con when it’s the main markets that are still setting prices and there is little reliable monitoring of what’s getting to the people who need the income i.e. the workers. But what really concerns me is the lack of internal investment in our own producers whilst all this is going on…..

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Perhaps if we'd have had Freetrade in the past to protect our mills here, we would still have a cotton industry in Lancashire, instead of being undercut by the workers in India.


I do think that it isn't the job of local councils to preach about morality, when we live in a free market economy, and a lot of people do not have the luxury to be able to choose what they but. The cheapest is very often their main concern.

I have nothing against the Freetrade movement or it's aims, I just don't want to be preached to about it by my local council.

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Tealeaf, yes you are right Hyndburn is not a rich area, although it has now risen up the rankings and is out of the bottom 50 deprived areas in the UK. I did not suggest for a minute that anyone who was below the poverty line should spend their money on more expensive items, I suggested that some people who do have that few pence extra to spare may consider what they are buying and purchase goods that are fairtrade rather than alternative expensive items (and Fairtrade goods are not the most expensive items on the shelf). In other words buy using your concience occassionally.

Yes, there are countries and governments out there that are corrupt, I don't even begin to know how much money we have poured into their coffers, but the whole point about Fairtrade is that the suppliers are organisations who have guaranteed to pay their staff acceptable wages and to operate under certain codes of health and safety that other suppliers have not. For a supplier from a third world country to be able to supply Fairtrade items they have got to sign up to the basic principles which is why it is called 'trade' that is 'fair'.

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Yes, totally agree Doug that there should be more done for indpendent suppliers over here and some supermarkets are coming round to that. Asda for example are now allowing individual stores to source a number of locally produced items themselves instead of going through central purchasing. This should also be encouraged.

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It is not the local council that is promoting this, it is Prospects Foundation who are an independent charity.

At no point did I say that people who couldn't afford it should buy the more expensive item - I was simply suggesting that if you could afford it then perhaps you could buy with your concience every now and then.

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....but wasn't it decided that HBC would only drink Freetrade coffee?

So indirectly they are promoting it.

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Well, they've agreed to be a part of it, I see that slightly differently to actively promoting it.

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Not being a well person at the moment I don't want to get excited. Why are we doing this when our own producers are being forced out of the local market place, same within europe. Why is it this country that always feels the need to get involved in someones else problems. We need to reinvest in our own people Gayle, sustain our own market place and then go and save the world. People are making money out of Fairtrade no doubt about it. Yesterday the local producer drove a tractor, today he might have a Toyota 4x4, the worker is still on a penny a day and works dawn to dusk, Health and Safety is an excuse of British self rightousness and not a real concideration in the third world nor many other places beyond these shores.

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All I can do is ask you to read the following link. This explains how the suppliers are allowed to become suppliers.

http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/supplier...htm#principles

If you have any proof that this is not being adhered to then I would be interested to know it.

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Quite agree, they should keep their noses out, and be concentrating on stopping the planned expansion of multi-national giant retailers at Whitebirk, before this town dies on it's arse.

The argument that some of the supermarket giants will stock a minute supply of locally produced goods just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps HBC should be offering one of the many empty shops in the town centre to the Freetrade movement, at least it would be a change from all the empty/ charity/ pound shops.

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But why should the two things be mutually exclusive? Why can we not support our own produce and goods and also promote some fairtrade things? You're making it sound like I'm suggesting you buy all your things via Fairtrade which I'm not.

It's not a case of one or the other. I have agreed with you that locally produced goods should be promoted more, so get down to the market hall and buy from independent suppliers and more local fruit and veg! You can do that AND support the odd product from Fairtrade.

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As far as I am aware there are no coffee plantations over in England - please put me right if I am wrong about that. So, could you please explain what the harm is in buying Fairtrade coffee rather than coffee produced by a large multinational organisation that squeazes every last penny out of the suppliers.

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I recall a programme not to long ago on box that discussed these very issues. I think the upshot of it was that the workers replied positively and politely to the monitors questions, but their where some suspicions that they might have been a degree of intimidation from the producer in order to protect this new increased income.

If we could increase freedoms and incomes across the world without someone exploiting the situation or there people fine, but we can’t. This is a charitable organisation I understand, if they think they can do something, brilliant. But don’t ask an already exploited people to foot the bill. HBC should be investing in the Borough, let the charity, supermarkets and the will of the paying public deal with the rest of he world. I will personally continue to invest in freetrade products as long as continue to enjoy them, nothing less, nothing more.

I don’t know why I’m engaging in this discussion, I don’t live over there………………

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Why are you bringing HBC into this again? I'm not part of HBC, and as far as I'm aware all they have done is agree to buy Fairtrade coffee themselves and until you can find a local coffee plantation then I don't exactly see the harm in it. Yes, they should be investing in the Borough wherever possible I really don't see where that has come into question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug let the charity, supermarkets and the will of the paying public deal with the rest of he world.

I think that's all that I was asking in the first place but unless someone lets people know about these things nothing happens. I posted a thread that I thought was a simple thread promoting the odd use of some Fairtrade items and to be honest I thought it was a relatively straightforward thing that wouldn't cause such a fuss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug I will personally continue to invest in freetrade products as long as continue to enjoy them, nothing less, nothing more.

So why have you spent the last hour arguing with me when you buy the stuff yourself anyway?

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There isn't any harm, I've bought Freetrade products. I just don't want my local council suggesting how I spend my money.

There is already enough information out there if people are interested, without HBC trying to obtain the status of a Freetrade borough by actively encoraging the relevant number of shops or cafes to qualify as such.

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Have you seen what our local ASDA has on its 'local suppliers' shelves?

A few mint balls, some jams and preserves and thats about it. (Although they do sell Hollands pies in teh freezer section :) )

Absolutely rubbish attempt if you ask me.

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THEY'RE NOT! Are you in some way objecting to me posting the thread in the first place because I thought I was just putting some information up - I'm NOT part of the Council!

The only way that people get to find out about things is if people tell them - I was supplying information. It is Prospects Foundation (a local environmental charity) that is trying to get Hyndburn to be a Fairtrade borough.

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i love nescafe and if them paying peanuts to farmers keeps the price down then so be it

yes what nescafe do is wrong and i have seen a program not too long ago showing how it effects the farmers etc but the onus on doing somthing about it is not my resposability it is the powers that be that should be sorting out these issues

if i remember correctly nescafe are on the board of free trade ( or whatever its called ) so it is a mokery from the outstart a bit like putting sadam insane or libiya in charge of human rights at the UN

i do think that nesacfe should be cheaper considering how little they pay for the beans and that nescafe should pay the farmers more and make less proffit

i think free trade items is a start but realy the root of teh problem is our own government and other governments who allow the problem to exist in the first place and the only thing we can do to help it seems is to bouycot companies like nescafe or pay even more money for fair trade items which i can not afford to do

ive only seen a few tv shows about this problem and all of them seem to point to the government when it comes to whos fault it is that these farmers get ripped off in the first place

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Exactly. I would assume that the role of the Council, when it comes to retailing, is to ensure the food shops are clean, there is no counterfeit gear on sale,the Calder sells a full pint and the kids don't buy fags & booze while underage.

So what the hell are they doing mucking around with global trade policy? They cannot even get the bins emptied efficiently.

I think it's time to hit the top shelf.

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So, I've told you a few times that it's not Hyndburn Borough Council that's suggesting you buy Fairtrade stuff all they are doing is buying the stuff themselves and leading by example. Are you all so down on the Council that they can't even show a little bit of support to a worthwhile charity without you blaming them for everything. If they turned around and refused to buy Fairtrade stuff can you imagine how everyone could have a field day with it? I'm not suggesting they would but the headlines would be 'hard hearted Councillors refuse to support charity cause'.

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Gosh Gayle you've had such a busy afternoon & I haven't said anything yet!

Here's an explanation for the above:-
There are no coffee plantations in England, Ireland, Wales or EVEN Scotland, in fact the whole of the United Kingdom is barren of such things, Why? Because you can't brew decent beer from that stuff!
The Romans and the Anglo-Saxons knew what they were doing, none of yer nanny state lets look after the under dog for them it was all brew it alchoholic then when we're p*ssed let's get the rape and piledge session on the road, none of yer actual 'lets get close to our namby pamby inner-selves'! The women were too busy stopping the real men from doing that for them! :D

http://www.animationlibrary.com/Anim...an_soldier.gifhttp://www.animationlibrary.com/Anim..._soldier_2.gif

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This is outrageous. The council have a statutory duty to obtain the best value for ratepayers money. So what the hell are they doing paying over the odds for dodgy Bolivian coffee beans or whatever ? The role of the council is to provide local services - not to indulge in some high moral crusade based upon quack economics. I do hope the National Audit Office will be informed of this; heads must roll.

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No of course not, but you have also said that with the council's help Hyndburn is trying to achieve Freetrade status as a borough.

As for the thread, l hope it may draw people's attention to it. I for one saw enough about it in the newspapers and on the radio this weekend to already feel able to make an informed decision about my purchases.

That still doesn't take away my unease about HBC getting involved, to whatever extent, in something that really is a moral and not a local issue.

As for not being part of the council [yet,] I applaud you taking on another issue that seems fairly unpopular as a local issue.

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I honestly think more people will be shocked that on our behalf they are taking the charitable high ground, and not drinking the most reasonably priced coffee available at our expense.

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Those members of the British society that wish to help the es well off, should start by throwing out their mobile phones, computers, T.V.'s etc.
They should then be in a better position to cope with the plight of the less fortunate nations and live with a clear consience because they would not be contributing to the green house effect and without the aid of modern day communication they wouldn't need to worry about the shortfall in other countries because they wouldn't hear about it.
This may then clear their minds to doing something for the needy in this country whether they are black brown green or grey, before dashing off to save the rest of the world.
As Rindy has already said,
You can bet your last dollar that if the boot was on the other foot they wouldn't give a toss about helping you, they would jump in and do exactly what we are doing but they would look after their own long before they ever gave us a thought.
However, if you were poor or female even though a native to their country you would be the first left on the streets to starve before they gave you anything!

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lol if i had my way they would be drinking Al Cafe that damn awfull stuff sold at aldi :D

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Goodness me, shouldn't it be me who's banging on about female rights - have you actually been listening to me?:D

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I'll tell you what, if I get elected I'll look at ways of saving money on coffees. Although I don't think we'll make up the millions of pounds that the Conservatives have got us into debt by saving a few quid with just a few jars of coffee from Aldi.

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Fairtrade is not about keeping specific jobs in a specific location it is about stopping multi-national companies using their enormous power to make people work, for what is basically slave wages.

Jobs will always go to where employers will get the best return on their investment. To keep jobs in this area, or even to bring new ones in, we need to show that the 'value added' is worth the investment.

This does not mean that we work cheaper, it means that we must work smarter.

Yes, it is true that manufacturing jobs have gone and probably more will go in the future. The reason is that we cannot change the fact that labour costs in this country are greater than in places like China. There is a view that it is only by jobs moving around the world that all the people in the workld will get a chagne at a better life.

A lot of these jobs will end up in China, but China does not, yet, have the designers, original thinkers, etc that GB has. One of the reasons that they bought Rover was to get the intellectual wealth of the company.

I work in IT and programming jobs are disappearing to India, Egypt and in time they will go to China. It is impossible to stop this.
But IT is not just about programming, it is also the thought processes that think of ways that we can use IT and then implement it (using Indian workers to produce the programming code).

If this area and East Lancashire in general is to have a real future, we have got to invest now in our young people (i.e. educate them better) so that they are able to think 'outside of the box' and have the big ideas that will be the wealth for their's and our children.

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All shops no matter what they sell are dependant on just one thing - the number of people walking past the front door. If there are sufficient numbers then no matter what the shop sells there will be enough people to enable the shop to make a profit. If there are only a few people walking past a shop it will not make a profit.

By encouraging Whitebirk you could cause (create) a situation where a significant number (which could be very small) of shoppers will not go into Accrington centre. They will therefore not be walking past the various shops in the centre, those shops will not make a profit, the shops will close and gradually the centre of Accrington will die.

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It`s a bit rich Asda promoting Fair Trade products presumably to be seen as a caring sharing retailer, while squeezing the profit margins of British producers. Mind you no sympathy there for rich farmers swanning round in their expensive Land Rovers and having all that land.....

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The co-op is a moajor retailer of fair trade in this country and I d on't think the products are that expensive. As for the council doing it, A) councils have to be seen to be doing the right thing, wasting money is one thing but paying a bit extra for planters made of recycled materials or fair trade coffee is acceptable to most people because they should be setting an example, BUT only as long as it's only slightly more expensive. B) they're supporting this fair trade town thing by doing this, which will promote the town. Any badge promotes a town, fair trade town, britain in bloom winner, book town, antique town, as do events, some events even create a badge for a town brerton teddy bear festival or Witherley scarecrow festival for example. A badge raises the profile of a town, promotes a town, encourages more visitors, more tourists, raises the residents pride in a town, civic pride.
Also you need to start looking at ways to promote your town to tourists, your a small town inbetween a group of big towns, your a perfect tourist town, you just need to make use of what you've got and get direction.

Re: Fairtrade Fortnight
 

The co-op is a moajor retailer of fair trade in this country and I d on't think the products are that expensive. As for the council doing it, A) councils have to be seen to be doing the right thing, wasting money is one thing but paying a bit extra for planters made of recycled materials or fair trade coffee is acceptable to most people because they should be setting an example, BUT only as long as it's only slightly more expensive. B) they're supporting this fair trade town thing by doing this, which will promote the town. Any badge promotes a town, fair trade town, britain in bloom winner, book town, antique town, as do events, some events even create a badge for a town brerton teddy bear festival or Witherley scarecrow festival for example. A badge raises the profile of a town, promotes a town, encourages more visitors, more tourists, raises the residents pride in a town, civic pride.
Also you need to start looking at ways to promote your town to tourists, your a small town inbetween a group of big towns, your a perfect tourist town, you just need to make use of what you've got and get direction.

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already happened , unless pound shops and charity shops are classed as the life and soul of a thriving town center :(

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depends what the charity shops sell. we've got one thats a book shop also selling dvd's and videos. It's part of our Atherstone booktown which is at the moment 5 bookshops, soon to be 7, and eventually about 15 shops. The idea is to attract tourists, the tourists will attract some unique shops to the area taking up more empty shops, not that we've got that many empty shops. Also it will create hotel trade, the major hotel has already been renovated refitted and a new extension will be complete. All this will create extra jobs, extra trade , extra footfall that will help keep the shops that provide our daily needs. To keep shops you need the footfall, no footfall, no trade. If footfall is low you need something to increase it. It's no good waiting till your town centre is derelict, cos then you will have a struggle. I think HBC need to wake up a bit.

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In total agreement with you Tealeaf, I've always thought this fairtrade was a scam and I would rather my money went to help people in England rather than as they say the developing countries. With all the help these nations are receiving it will come back to haunt us when all our jobs have moved there, wait a minute that's already happening.

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Don't get tetchy, I admire you for posting this.

As for the coffee, good.

Look after the pennies and the millions of pound debt will look after itself.:D

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In answer to you point A) I think you are totally wrong.

Maybe in Hampstead people excpect their council to take the ethical high ground, for everyone else I think the majority of people expect their local taxes to be spent in the most economical way possible.

People look to religion for moral guidance, not their local council.

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Do they? I don't know anybody that looks to religion for moral guidance. People look at a council that preaches recycle this recycle that, be multicultural, buy fair trade and then notice that they don't, in the name of saving tax payers money and they think oh thats ok, they're saving taxpayers money so it's ok that they don't, I'll just carry on doing what they preach but don't practice.

I don't think so. They have to practice what they preach. how can they promote the town as a fair trade town but say fair trade is a few pence extra, so they can't afford it. How can they say you should be recycling everything but not buy recyceld planters because they're slightly dearer. They have to do the right thing, even if you don't think it is.
The things that matter, the things that cost more than a 2.99 jar of coffee from petty cash, the council has to get three quotes on, our council does down here and so should yours

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The people I know expect a council to do the right thing, which isn't necessarily the cheapest. in fact I'm damn anoyed that our council always gets the cheapest firm in to do the christmas lights, because they do a crap job, they look terrible compared to other years when a dcent company installed them. No point me quoting cos I wouldn't do it that cheap, I'd do it properly, so that they last all christmas and not fall down half way through.

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Well they ain't there to tell you where your nearest bottle bank is mate.

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Hello?

It's being going on since mankind first noticed that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

As for if people think local councils should be meddling in international politics, rather than concentrating on local issues, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.

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No, it's got nothing to do with international politics, they want to be a fair trade town because they think it would be a good thing to do, not just for people abroad but you, here, the town, the people in the town, promote the town, make it look good, how can they do that if they're contadicting what they're saying.
As for the religion, how many of you go to church, and I don't mean the town. People don't bother any more unless it suits. That a fact backed up by all the violence and vandalism. People don't look to religion for moral guidance, they don't fear god, they don't go to church, they don't get married, they sin, they don't confess, they don't pray. But these same people like to believe that they are good christians though, that they believe in god and do the right thing. hmmm, which god though. I know some people who think ronald mcdonald is a god, that macca was a god. The fact is that only person most kids now days think is looking down on em is the guy in the cctv monitoring station.

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thats not gods job, thats the councils.

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Tell you what, why don't we force em to drink tap water that'll be even better value for money, why should they have coffee at all out of our council tax

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Religion? Let it be. You do not know better than anyone else what's out there so don't criticise something you don't understand.
Let people have their mystery - whatever way they want to go about it.

Sorry for going off thread - I don't know anything about local politics and to be honest I have given up trying to show any enthusiasm for it.
I'll be going now...

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I HAVE ONLY READ 2 PAGES OF this gayle! sorry about the capitals,fair trade? where does it come into the equasion pubs used to make a living out of selling beer !they then let every tom dick and harry sell it so what happens?they monopalise things and they buy in so much bulk you cant afford to keep up! soooooooooo you go bust look around you and see how many community pubs have shut......WHY?

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religion - let it be. no one knows what's out there so don't criticise something you don't understand. shakermaker.

You don't know whats out there either so what gives you the right to criticise me. Also where have I criticised religion, read it again properly and you'll see I've only criticised people, nowhere have I criticised a religion, and nowhere have I criticised anyone for believing in a religion or not believing for that matter. The only thing I've said is people don't look to religion for guidance, they do see what a council and councillors are doing though if they're telling you to do one thing and doing something opposite themselves. I have yet to recieve negative feed back where the person has actually bothered to read the posts that they're judging me on.

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you don't know anything about religion either do you. no, because if you did you'd know that each criticises each other, and definately doesn't have the opinion of let it be. That is why I do not get involved and I do actually let it be. but what i won't do is keep quiet when I'm told people look to religion for guidence when the majority clearly do not, the facts that prove this are out there in society, vandalism, rape, murder, selfishness, or are you saying these people looked for moral guidence from religion. wake up and smell the free trade coffee, most people do not look to religion for moral guidance anymore. If anything they look to parents, friends and others in society, and the law not forgeting authorities.

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Try looking at the millions and millions of Catholics who look to the Pope for moral guidance, and instruction about how to live their lives.

Not forgetting Muslims, Methodists, Jews.....the list is endless.

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Hehehe, good thread. What I find a bit odd is the suggestion that it is taxpayer's money paying for the councillor's coffee....... None of our money should be spent on coffee. They should be doing the same as we do in the NHS. The nurses all contribute £1 per month to their own ward coffee fund. None of our coffee comes from taxpayer's money, neither should the council's..:D

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Make your mind up. Are they or aren't they? Is it any wonder people get disillusioned with politics when this wannabe councillor cannot even be consistent in a thread on Accyweb.
Just a thought. If Garinda was a councillor would it be policy to use Camp coffee when on official HBC business?

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No I'd serve something much more bitter, I'm sure you'd love it.:D

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I wasnt goingto ask but go on what would be served?

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Hyndburn as an area isn't all about the council. I have not been inconsistent whatsoever. Hyndburn - the area - is going for Fair trade status (this is not a council thing as I have said many times, it is Prospects Foundation that is going for it for Hyndburn the area).

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If that's the case how does the Prospects Foundation know Hyndburn the area wants to become a fairtrade borough? Someone must have told them or do they just pick a borough from a hat and decide to go for it on their behalf?

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bloody disgusting , ime not kissing ass here but as a frequent visitor of hospitals i can say with certainty that nurses deserve a FREE brew at the very least

exept 1 particulay sister who shall remain nameless as i am about to go back in soon lol :D

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Ok done that in the past but what about the bikkies??????

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We have to bring our own biccies...

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That is not the majority of this country. If the majority of this country look to religion for moral guidance then they must be givining out some pretty crap guidance thats very contradictive. As far as I know the catholic religion says your supposed to be married before sex, so how do you account for all the so called catholics that are single parents. Thats the complete opposite of the moral guidence the catholic church gives. Same with other religions. People pretend to be all religious and say im a catholic, etc, they never go to church, never pray, never do anything that the church says yet still say they look to the church for moral guidence. perhaps the mothers that tell the kids to fkin pack it in you little .. bet they say they're religious too. Perhaps the care workers that tortured the old dear in the news looked to the church for moral guidence, the must be religious, as they're carers. People say it but don't do it. people don't like the truth.
AND you missed off ronald mc donald off your list, and the head of the prospects foundation, he's a god, people are looking to him for moral guidence, and he says buy fair trade coffee.

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Don't get ya staggers please explain what beer has to do with coffee.

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Atherstone the town is becoming a book town, this is not a council thing, it's a book towns international thing, but a councillior suggested they come here because he though it would be good for the town and help save the town from more derelict shops, by giving it an identity. The borough council supported the scheme with thousands of pounds of out tax payers money. I say good luck to them and thank you for actually supporting a scheme that will give the area a claim to fame that may increase trade and save our town centre. You may not give a toss about the area being badged fairttrade but your not an outsider looking in.

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after lots of beer you need lots of coffee :D

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I recall, some time ago, when Saint Geldoff was effing and blinding about making poverty history and the sheeple were all bleating about what a world changing moment of history it was, I was moved to advise readers to adopt the practise of purchasing just one item of fair trade produce per week. The reason being that this would effect more good than all of Saint Geldoff's fulminations and the Blair government's simpering agreement with him.

The idea of Fair Trade products is, on the face of it, a fairly sensible one. I do not have any evidence to support T's contention that the system is as riddled with corruption as any other initiative to relieve third world poverty but then, on the other hand, neither do I have any evidence to prove that it is not. But I have to say that, on the balance of probability, I am quite long enough in the tooth to believe people capable of anything, and that must include the creation of fraudulent charities.

I find the idea of Hyndburn's putative status as a Fair Trade Borough, based on a handful of shops, a couple of jars of council coffee and ASDA, to be completely laughable, as is the idea that this will somehow raise the profile of the borough. Someone raised the example of loony left boroughs in the eighties proclaiming themselves to be Nuclear Free Zones. I have to agree that Fair Trade status for Hyndburn will make about as much difference to the borough as the expensive political posturing of the eighties, which is to say, none at all!

The problems of the Third World are so fundamental that a couple of pence added to a jar of coffee is not even going to come close to scratching the surface. All that this Prospects Foundation led project does is to assuage the sense of guilt which comes with the realisation that we are fortunate to live where we do... and they are not.

Of course, it is very sad and regretable that not everyone in the world can enjoy the freedoms and standard of living which we take for granted. It is very sad that some children have to go to bed hungry and are compelled to live lives blighted by war, famine and disease. But, sadly, that is life, it has been the same since mankind first learned to walk upright and I see no immediate prospect of a change for the better, no matter how many jars of Free Trade coffee we buy.There are simply too many people competing for scarce and rapidly dwindling resources.

If Charles Darwin is correct in his hypothesis, nature, red in tooth and claw, will eventually correct the imbalance.

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How can you compare nuclear free to fair trade. Fair trade suggests things it's not, I think It's a badge worth having and certainly worth trying. It's got the word TRADE in it, people, tourists see trade and thing buying things. They see nuclear and the run, regardless if its nuclear freee or chargable. Instead of knocking it cos you think it a rubbish idea, jusr go with it and see, it certainly won't do the area any damage like nuclear free does, and its not costing you anything is it.

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Haha, nice to see someone round here has a sense of humour.

I'm not sure but I think he's aying nobody gives a **** about the pub trade being fair, which they don't, so why should he care about fairtrade.

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quite right lettie, they should pay for their own or at least contribute to it.. its always easy to spend other peoples money!!:)

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of course it costs us, the money to buy the councils coffee comes out of the communal purse. I like the concept of fairtrade and i buy fairtrade products myself but thats my choice and it doesn't cost anybody else anything:)

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What about the greasy takeaway???? Providing its GM free Free Trade ingredients and not expensive. :p

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Marvellous. If you want to collect badges to pin on your borough, go ahead. Hyndburn has enough problems without wishing to add "anorack" to the list, thank you very much.

I compare nuclear free zones to free trade borough for the simple reason that they are both motivated by political dogma and are both equally ineffective.

As for the cloth-eared idea that when people see the word "TRADE" they cannot wait to get their credit cards out, it would be nice if the real world worked like that, but as it is, it doesn't, so the idea seems to be about as redundant as the rest of your comments on this issue.

You claim it won't cost me anything, sorry perhaps I'm missing something here, but haven't we already figured out that the Prospects Foundation is funded through the tax payer and doesn't the tax payer also pay extra so that HBC can indulge in guilt-free, free trade coffee? Looking at it dispassionately, I think that money would have been better spent by putting it towards an advertising campaign for the markets. It's partly my money that is being spent so I reckon I should have some sort of say about the manner in which it is spent, don't you?

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i have no doubts that my greasy takeaway is Fair Trade..

lets face it they aint called DONAR kebabs for nothing and are probably from the taste of them made from bodies bought at a FAIR price of those that starve in these poor countries

Anyone disagrees ...?

eat one sober it opens a whole new world to your taste buds :sick:

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Cloth eared to you because you'll be negative about it no matter what and don't want to see anyone elses point of view. That money will be spent on it no matter what, so why ruin any chance of it working. You might not think a badge is worth anything but plenty out there do wether you think it or not or like it.
What do they promote about this great market of yours, what do they promote about this great town of yours. perhaps they should show pictures of your fantastic new town improvements, or that ****hole of a building in your town centre, promote the empty shops.
OR the could promote the market as one of the first free trade markets in the uk.
When you stop your blinkered negative opinions and views of any scheme thrown accys way you maybe, just maybe might find a direction for start regenerating your town. when you realise there is nothing to promote at the moment that is. you have NOTHING to offer that blackburn, burnley and bury can offer, and a great deal less in fact.
I know I live in a town a lot smaller and with a lot less shops to offer than accy, we've got a co-op, a somerfield, a dillons, and soon an aldi, and that all the national retailers we have, our market is a fraction of yours. despite this and despite the initial negative response from the locals the book town scheme is working, we've got 5 book shops now and it also got the main hotel/pub refurbed and extended and another pub.
Grab everything, take the gambles, you have risk loosing some tax payers money to start with, only reject something when it doesn't work. It's better than doing nothing.
Unless of course you know of a scheme that will work and will avoid the gamble?

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lol your a muppet chav. no i can't dissagree with that.

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Have you been to Accrington's Market and Market Hall? People still shop there because it offers fresh produce, but mainly go there because it's cheap.


We can't afford to be the 'countries first totally Freetrade market', it would be closed within a month. I think we'll leave that liberal, mind easing honour to a more affluent area.

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If people still shop there why is it a shadow of its former self, why can't they afford the rents that the council needs to charge to bring it up to date? why is there nothing upstairs in the market hall?.
To go totally free trade would kill it I agree, but realistically, if most stalls start selling a few token fairtrade items, it would qualify it to be something your neighbouring town aren't.
out of curiousity which are the poorer areas up there and which are the more afluent. Down here stratford warwick and leamington are more affluent than here coleshill and nuneaton/bedworth, they get all the money .

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The main reason the outdoormarket died on it's arse was that it was moved and redeveloped about five years ago. The rents went up, and lots of specialist traders moved out. Most of it was mainly covered, and is now open to the elements when the rain blows in. It used to be the best, and busiest local market around, alas no more.

The Victorian Market Hall has never had stalls upstairs, That is, and was designed for storage and stall holder's facilities.

The nearest affluent area to us is the Ribble Valley, with Clitheroe and it's small but bust market at it's centre.

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Didn't know Clitheroe had twinned with Amsterdam :eek::eek::eek::D

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Lol, you have to be over 18, to get in. It's just behind the cheese stall.:D

Fancy silly old me makin' a mistake.

The shame.....the shame.:o :p

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The main reason that Accrington Markets failed was because ASDA moved in and decided to begin to sell everything. The council's response to falling Market revenue was, not to ask why and then do something about it, but to allow ASDA to build an even bigger store so they could sell more things and put even more local shopkeepers out of business, and also to start to put market rents up to cover the shortfall. Thus the higher the rent became, there were fewer stall holders who could afford to pay it and the bigger ASDA became fewer people did their shopping on the Market. You can't really blame the shoppers, ASDA has made it so easy for them. The only people to blame, as usual, are the myopic halfwits we elect to represent us who would not recognise public consultation if it turned up with bells ringing and sirens sounding.

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Whilst I agree with you on the majority of what you've said A-B, I don't think the Market Hall failed BECAUSE of Asda. I think Asda was probably the catalyst for the problems but I think that lack of foresight was the real reason that the Market Hall failed. Other towns have succeeded when supermarkets have come in.

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There's a lot of factors in this; I think location is a big one. ASDA is only a short walk away and has a wider stock available...despite it's total lack of friendly personality.

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Sorry rindy your way off, the rest of you aren't, there is a general downturn in market stalls turnover all over the uk, and this is caused not by on specific company but a change in shopping trends. Although what you've said rindy probably didn't help even though in theory it should have. People don't go to markets to buy good priced stuff anymore cos they can buy it from a supermarket. This is why you need good quality stalls that offer what people want but also something different that burnleys market doesn't.

It used to be the best, and busiest local market around, alas no more.

Strange but Rawtenstall claim to have had the best market around, and also wasn't it the biggest?.

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Gail all markets are struggling but I think your right. I recently went to birkenhead indoor market and it's busy and succesful. The indoor market at Hanley Stoke on Trent does good too, and I'm sure there's dozens more. I think outdoor markets more than indoor markets are out of favour. The succesful ones seem to mostly be part of a shopping centre or right by one, rather than on it's own out in the street, so if they made that market hall like a shopping centre, like the festival hall used to be in trafford centre, with a cafe with a view and the clock, maybe it would work.

Do you ever have farmers markets, or french markets?

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The indoor market at Hanley is how to run a indoor maket. As the shopping centre is directly above it benifits immensley. Mind you there is a good selection of shops in Hanley both commen and specialist.

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Sorry I can't make head nor tail of this post, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

By the way Rawtenstall market is, and always was much smaller than Accrington.

Unless you've visited the old Accrington market I don't see how you can possibly comment.

As for the demise of the market it is down to it being moved, whose planning was passed by HBC, although of course other factors are at work, such as people visiting supermarket's for a once a week shop.

The suggestion that the people of Accrington would benefit if it became the first Freetrade marketplace in the country is ludicrous.

I think a few more visits here would be wise before anymore comment, and you can concenterate on turning your little piece of the Midlands into the new Hay-on-Wye.