1200 terrorists in Britain
 

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/cri...cle1218895.ece

was checking the online news tonight and came across this headline , from a UK paper called the Independant , guess it is fairly newish, it reports that some people think that up to 1200 terrorists are active in the UK , not having lived in the UK for a number of years I wonder if you folks think this could be a resonable estimate or just scare mongering.
As I mentioned earlier I have no knowledge of this paper's political leanings don't know if it is left or right wing Mirror/Guardian v Sun/Mail , think they have a guy called Robert Fisk/Fish who seems to write reasonable reports on the mid-east situation , anyone care to comment.

thanks

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

No its not new its one of the big broadsheats. The number could be true as the Independent is not a tabloid nor is it known for getting it wrong. Its the kind of paper civil servents and the higher echelons read. I believe the estimate could be a bit conservative as it is based on what is known and there could be sleepers.

Worse
 

According to newspapers this morning steeljack, the situation is worse than you imagine. MI5 spies fear that at least fifteen other attacks could be unleashed, and they are hunting scores of al-Qaida suicide bombers. I'm only glad that we live out of the main cities.

Re: Worse
 

[quote=T.C.]According to newspapers this morning steeljack, the situation is worse than you imagine. MI5 spies fear that at least fifteen other attacks could be unleashed, and they are hunting scores of al-Qaida suicide bombers. I'm only glad that we live out of the main cities.[/quote

Couldn't agree more TC it's getting scarier by the day!

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

The independent is kinda center though it does lean left sometimes. If this is true then it is worring news indeed...

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

The amount of terrorists in this our beautiful country will continue to increase, but hopefully the skills of our security services MI5, M16 SAS and the Det will catch and crush the majority of them.

Don’t let them win.

Don’t live in fear :engsmil:

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

The blame for the current situation lies fairly and squarely on the egotistical shoulders of Blair and his desire to show that he is a world leader.

We are now paying the price for his actions and in turn he is using the threat of terrorism to justify curtailing our hard won freedom to go about our daily lawful business without hindrance or control from the state.

I doubt if even the terrorists know how many of them there are so the 1,200 is a shot in the dark. But it wouldn’t surprise me to discover that it is more like 12,000. With over ONE MILLION immigrant Muslims in the country, the majority of whom support their brother Muslims abroad, there could be even more ready to take up the cause when their higher profile terrorists get caught.

With the best will in the world MI5, MI6 and the police do not have the resources – yet – to track them all down. They will always play catch-up. They haven’t eliminated the Irish terrorist, who are still bombing targets, after 30 years of trying so what chance of catching and eliminating the Muslim terrorist?

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

Firstly I don't wish to tar all Muslims/Pakistanis whatever with the same brush, so don't jump to conclusions that i'm being racist. Yes its a sad state of things when I have to post this warning before my actual post... anyway..

Anyway, the people I have seen interviewd on tv and things all seem to say that 'it couldn't possibly be x person, he was such a nice guy' and this was the same attitude back at 7/7. I am not sure that the Muslim community (and excuse me if I am being ignorant I will be the first to admit I don't know the difference between Islam/Muslim etc) really understand there is a problem. It is fact that in this country taht the MAJORITY of Muslims tend not to integrate in to other communities and really stick to their own so to speak. But I personaly believe this generates a safe haven for terrorists, as they can happily be sleeper cells in the community, and the community simply do not know about it and seem to me to refuse to accept that there is a problem.

Now thats my view at the moment, my view might change, depending on replies and such as i'm very open to other peoples opinions on this matter. :)

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

I would venture that 1,200 terrorists, from whichever faction, in this country is a gross underestimate. Let's face it, the government have absolutely no idea how many illegal immigrants we have here in the UK therefore how can anyone begin to estimate the number of terrorists????? It's just a thought.:cool:

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

If people want to consider my views as racist then so be it. I cannot be held responsible for how people view my opinions. Let’s face it with just a little bit of spin you can make a racist remark out of an innocent one if you want to.

The British Isles were in existence and populated by mine and your ancestors long before Islam came into being so we have precedence. If someone from some other part of the world wants to emigrate to these shores then they will have to follow our rules. It is as simple as that. I am quite happy to allow immigrants to keep their own culture in their own homes but if it clashes with mine on some point they will have to back down and accede to our ways.

If anyone has been to any of the Arab countries you will know exactly what I mean.

If I were an employer I would not allow extra time off during the day to allow a Muslim to pray nor would I supply a separate room for that purpose. You don’t get a room where a Christian can pray on a Sunday or a Jew on a Saturday if they happen to be working. You don’t see Buddhists or Hindus asking for a place to pray whilst at work.

The Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants do integrate with our British society but only up to a point and they are not all Muslim. There are many Christians in Pakistan. The immigrants work in our factories and offices both private and government and open up their own shops and take over some that are already a thriving business. But they tend to live in enclaves and as their numbers increase at a much faster rate than British numbers they expand out of their enclaves, pushing us further and further away from town centres. As the enclaves grow so does the probability that they will be hiding terrorists. In short they integrate as far as it suits them.

Islam is the name of the religion in as much as Christianity is the name of a religion. A Muslim or Moslem if you like, is a follower of Islam.

My views on the issue will not change because I will not allow a good story to get in the way of facts. But then I’m not a budding politician and do not change my view to suit the day.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

WE have had non-existent border controls for so long that the government has absolutely no idea who is in this country.........so I think the posibility that there are only 1200 terrorists in the country is a guess......and what good is a guess?

And the fact that the people who live cheek by jowl to the people who have been arrested, and say 'X has always been a good boy....goes to the mosque regularly'......Yes he may go to the mosque, but it may not be to pray......it may be to be indoctrinated into who knows what. These guys aren't going to go out and say to their neghbour 'Hi, I've just been and got the stuff to make TATP'.........how stupid do these people think they sound when they tell us all he was 'normal'....liked football.....etc. These people are Muslims first last and forever, they have no allegiance to this country.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

A recent survey said that a quarter of all muslims in this country thought that suicide bombers were justified in their cause.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

hence sunday trading laws.... the fact u can do ur praying b4 sunday trading starts... the fact that for a long time sundays was a "rest" day the fact that even in countries like pakistan sunday is very much a rest day

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

And while the alleged terrorists plot was foiled, and they didn't actually kill or maim anyone, they have certainly damaged our liberty and knocked billions of pounds off shares. Ah, you may think it will only be the banks that suffer......but if you have a private pension it will affect you too. It may have damaged the tourism industry.......and they have had loads of propaganda courtesy of seamless news reports which all told us the same things. They took the police away from their normal duties.......spoiled the holidays and travel arrangements of many........Made people worry about going about their daily life....so they have in fact scored something of a victory.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

If your comment is based on the religion of this country then at the time that Islam came into existence, (early seveth century) this island was basically pagan. Those Christians who came with the Romans had, within 100 years of the invasions of the Saxons, Angles and Jutes been replaced by pagans.
It was not until the arrival of St Augustine (597) and his work, also in the early sixth century that there were a significant number of Christians in England.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

I would just like to know what is their ultimate objective, someone please tell me ... do they have one ?

At least with the Irish situation, we all knew what they were looking for, but with this load of, as any, God-worshipping idiots, can't sort out the grand plan. :confused:

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

read a similar thing in the news this week, also what was said is food for thought i think, i.e. NOT all muslems are terrorists its only a very small minority. but all terrorists that are trying to blow us to kingdom come ARE muslem. now that to me is indisputable fact. what i am saying here is - there is NO chance of me or any christian influencing these people, i think that to is fact. the only people with ANY chance of influence is muslems themselves, and as theres a lot of decent people in their community, but they do not seem to realise the situation,wether it be denial or whatever. i say its time for these people to get off the pot and use whatever influence they may have, cos the power to do this is with them not us. if they want to be british its time to act british.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

My comment was not based on the religion of this country. If it had been I would have said so. However much obliged for the brief history lesson, which I was aware of, although other readers may not have been.

The pagans (which could be seen as a religion of sorts) overwhelmed the immigrant Christians (although in those days they were known as invaders) but to no avail as history reveals. The point is Christianity was in the British Isles BEFORE Islam and thus has precedence.

John Reid has been quoted as saying that during the last few years at least 4 terrorist attacks have been thwarted. At least? Doesn’t he know how many? Or is it all hogwash to try and convince the public that the recent airport disruption was justified?

If an attack has been prevented it must have been done so on some sort of evidence. If the evidence was so strong to allow the security forces to take action it would be equally strong enough to present in a court of law and gain a conviction. Or have we already got a police state where they can raid a house on suspicion and then walk away when nothing is found. It seems that we have as the recent over-the-top raid on one house clearly shows.

I don’t recall at least 4 court cases where terrorists were charged with some offence.

True to form this government is spinning the very real problems into something much worse than it is. Why is open to conjecture.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

The grand plan as you call it katex is controlled by the Koran.

It is the sworn duty of every Muslim to promote Islam whenever and wherever they can. As I understand it like the Bible the Koran does not sanction killing. However, just like the Christian Bible, different people interpret the Koran to suit their own agenda.

Islam is split into many factions the main two being Shia and Sunny and they have been at war with each other for a long, long while and will continue for as long as Islam exists. The extremist hotheads from both factions have interpreted the Koran as ‘death to all non-believers’. The west’s intervention in the middle east has given them an excuse to carry out their beliefs.

The majority of Muslims are much like we Christians in that we prefer to live in peace with our neighbours. The real difference is that the Muslim clerics hold much more sway over the Muslim population than do the Christian leaders over theirs and through coercion and even threats force the normal Muslim to do as they are told or at the very least go along with the herd. That is why the Muslim community leaders are shy at condemning the suicide bomber.

Hundreds of years ago the Catholics had the Inquisition to keep them on the straight and Catholic narrow. Today the Muslims have the clerics.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

The establishment VIEWS US ALL as potential terrorists - they don't trust any of us - hence the whole ID card scam. They just want a database of our biometrics. If they had a database of our biometrics that police could check on the spot, then you don't need a card to say what your biometrics are - you ARE your biometric data, no card needed. So why the cards? It's to 'show' they're doing something to protect our freedoms, so if they remove our freedom so that they can protect it... oh hang on... it's paradoxical!

So in reality, there's 60 million+ 'terrorists' in this country. A terrorist isn't a terrorist until he's used terror to further his agenda, and at the moment the only person in this country causing any kind of unneccesary terror for that purpose is John Reid.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

And using this logic, various shamanic-style practices have precedence over Xtianity - they were here first. heh ;)

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

The whole issue of 'islamic terrorists' - or more recently, the PC version 'islamist terrorists' really brasses me off. We never used to label the IRA as 'Christian terrorists' or 'Christiist terrorists', so why the media demonisation of Muslims? It's almost like the controlling elites would rather have us fighting amongst ourselves than focussing on their crimes. Think about it...

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

As much as I agree with you about your views on ID Cards semihere I have to disagree about your assertion that there are 60 million terrorists in the UK.

Actually we did label the IRA as Catholic terrorists, which is what they were – Catholics and terrorists with allegiance to Eire and the Orangemen or Protestants if you like were against the IRA with allegiance to Britain. The Northern Ireland problem was a religious war under the guise of having a united Ireland.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

the more I think about this stuff the more I am convinced that we (Humans) haven't progressed much from ours days when we lived in caves , all the terrorism and war going on basically boils down to one thing, tribalism instead of hitting each other over the head with clubs we have better weapons, and those using terror tactics are no differant than legitimate governments which use high tech weaponry .it's just a bit more messy

I'm not making any apologies for the terrorists and believe they should be treated to the full measure of the law, but I think it's time we in the west took a good hard look in the mirror and ask ourselves who/what we really are and what we want for our future generations
As an example, we in the west say we are superior to the barbaric muslims who treat their women like chattels but we on the other hand treat our women like whores and exploit them ( I'm sure there are lots of fathers out there who are really proud their young offspring made it to page 3 ) and act surprised when our civilization starts to collapse like ancient Rome .
apologies, I'm in a moralizing mood today

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

[quote=semihere]The establishment VIEWS US ALL as potential terrorists - they don't trust any of us - hence the whole ID card scam. They just want a database of our biometrics. If they had a database of our biometrics that police could check on the spot, then you don't need a card to say what your biometrics are - you ARE your biometric data, no card needed. So why the cards? It's to 'show' they're doing something to protect our freedoms, so if they remove our freedom so that they can protect it... oh hang on... it's paradoxical![quote]

If you haven't got anything to hide whats the problem with an ID card, as biometrics I don't think it was ever mentioned in conection with the ID card except by the Daily Inquisitor, sorry, Mail.
How would the establishment view you as a terrorist, wouldn't you have to do something to attract attention or are you more of an opposition or hostile to conventional social, political, or economic values or principles.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

"If you haven't got anything to hide whats the problem with an ID card"

I cannot stand that sort of argument. If you've nothing to hide... why not let the govt. install CCTV in your bedroom? Why not let them charge you for the privilage while you're at it. And how about letting them monitor everything you say on your phone. Frankly it's none of their business. The govt should be here for the people. For me and for you. Why they need to monitor every single one of us for the purposes of "Anti-terrorism" is beyond me. If they have a problem with illegal immigrants, they should up border control. If people are abusing their benefits, target them. Don't splash everyone with the same brush and reduce *my* freedom and right to privacy because *someone else* abused theirs!

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

Recently, I saw a Manchester Evening News headline, which seemed to imply that a pilot (who had previously been subject to a full vetting process) on his way to the USA, as part of his normal duties, was ordered off an airplane by the US authorities, because he was a Muslim and was from an ethnic minority.

I do not know if this was true, but unfortunatley, I would not be surprised if it was.

My point is that if all people from an ethnic group are pillared becuase of the actions of a very small number of people then that must be wrong no matter how heinous the crimes that have been committed.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

You are wrong - there are thousands, if not millions of Muslims who live in and love this country. Many of them were born here and are British in every sense of the word. In fact some of them are more English than I am.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

Ok Bill so I'm wrong, but it is my opinion......and I have yet to be convinced of otherwise. If they were as British (or as you assert, more British) than you, then surely there would be more desire to root out the undesirable element that give the muslim religion a bad reputation. And if a quarter of all the muslims in this country believe that suicide bombings are a valid way to show their outrage at our foreign policy, then I can't be as wrong as you think I am.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

I do not believe that western civilization is superior to any other, neither do I believe it to be inferior to any other either....and because some people have lax morals doesn't mean we all do. I am sure that most of us just want to live our lives peaceably without let or hindrance. These incidents impact on all areas of our liberty and freedom.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

But usually they were branded 'Republican' terrorists. Or 'Loyalist' terrorists (or more often, not even terrorists, but paramilitaries).

Still, there was some distinction - Catholic, Republican. But the media don't say 'Shia terrorists' or 'Sunni terrorists'... why is that? Instead they evoke this link between all forms of Islam and terror. If the media explained some of the historical sectarian conflicts between Shia and Sunni Muslims (and why), then perhaps the wider public would have a better understanding of Islam (seeing the historical parallels with perhaps Christianity to put it in context) and more people would see through this trite spin that's sold to us day-in day-out. Scapegoats are one thing, but when the media is complicit in stirring religious unrest, then it smacks of pure institutional racism.

Utlimately I don't believe it IS an issue of race, religion, or even political beliefs. I think it's more a case of divide and conquer. The elites keep the masses fighting and prosper off the back of it - follow the trail of money.

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

I hear what your saying Bill, but the problem the security services have is find the ones who, although born here, are prepared to kill themselves and take as many other British subjects with them. They are so well hidden within their own communities that even their own relatives don't know what they are up to let alone the security services

Re: 1200 terrorists in Britain
 

The media rarely mentions Shia or Sunny terrorists semihere because both groups have terrorists and although they are fighting each other they are also fighting the non-Muslim world.

They fight each other because they both interpret the Koran in different ways and each thinks that their way is the right way. It is simply a conflict of opinion that has escalated into combat. Christianity has learned to live with all the various factions. You don’t see the followers of the orthodox Russian Christians fighting the Roman Catholics or the Church of England followers. Buddhist doesn’t fight Hindu and neither attacks other religions.

The world conflict is a conflict of ideology or religion if you like with some politics thrown in. But then the politics of a Muslim country are controlled by the Islamic religion so it really all boils down to religion.

However it is still down to a few Islamic hotheads and not Islam as a whole.