Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:cool: British nationals among many others are incarcerated in an, out of sight
out of mind prison, tucked away in an off-shore base in Cuba, no trial is
offered to the unfortunate "prisoners", for five years our people along with
many others are suffering god knows what sort of conditions, torture ,
deprivied of sleep and lord knows what else.
How long are they to suffer in silence? :cool: :cool: :cool:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

and there they should rot the murdering bastards :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:cool: So is that your vision of Amercan democracy,
inocent until proven guilty, no Sir,There but for the grace of god go you.
If this is the face of democracy that America seeks to portray to the rest
of the world, god save us all. :confused:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

couldnt give two hoots about america or democracy....


all i care about is those who are in there are there because They have been accused of terrorist-related activity. innocent or guilty i do not care, if it means that they are refrained from doing it again, i say keep em there

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

If I were American i'd say that as it is in Cuba and not American soil, the American Constitution dosn't apply and therefore they have no rights.

Though I am not saying I think its right:)

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Ianto I'd be quite happy if someone had you tucked away in an off-shore base in Cuba then at least we wouldn't have to put up with your boring attempt at yet more provocation.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Good god just
what have I to do, If you find the threads boring, don't read em, get back
to Emmerdale, or better still watch news at ten it's it's on there.:confused: :confused: :confused:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Busman I always respect your opinion, this subgect need's discussion, it is
not my personal view, I have no opinions yet either way, I posted it to see what response it would gather, No posts no discussion!

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

EASY ANSWER IF YOU CANT DO THE TIME THEN DONT DO THE CRIME!!!

Its always the guilty that as a rule make the most noise about being innocent. Not sure if all there are guilty or wether it is supposed to be a terrorists deterrent but either way its there and there is SFA we can do about it.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

it might not be the ideal solution ianto but it beats the crap out of more of our troops/ citizens massacred. thats my 2 pennorth.;)

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

if you act like a piece of crap then be preppared to be treated like a piece of crap

these scumbags dont hold any value to our lives so why should we value their humanity because clearly they dont have any

even if the person arrested was only an associate of a terrorist or played teh smallest of parts in any ploy then they are just as guilty in my eyes

people would soon be up in arms if they let one go and he went on to behead a school full of children

you loonie dogooders with your high morals do my flippin head in lol , your tune would soon change if one of your loved ones was beheaded , blown to bits or had an airoplane dumped on their house

these people are not been held simply because they look lie terrorists they are been held because they are associating themselves with terrorists and acting like terrorists

yes some of them may be british but we have had people from blackburn joining alquiad forces so yes there are briish citizens willing to kill us and to be quite honest they should be executed for treason nevermind held in a prison

good on america i may not like bush but at least he has teh balls to protect his country

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

As normal you you are giving out misimformation, is it a windup or are you seriously so misimformed that you start beliving the crap you spew forth. Please start a thread with imformation that you actualy know is true and not half baked lies that you get from reading your morning sun or star newspaper. You are becoming the most tedious person on this website, as your profile says your new to commuting, Iwish the salesman had been new to selling when he convinced you to buy one.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Your thread title is very direct and straightforward. You are the Judge and jury and this is YOUR statement. To make an attempt to claim virtual innocensce at this being your opinion is quite Idiotic. Heck you could have changed it all by ending it with a ? rather then with a period.

I'm so glad to read all the strong, direct responses. I thought I was again gonna have to respond in the like on my own. It makes it tough 'cause then it seems that "all LYY does is wrap Old Glory around himself and climb on his soap box." That would be an uncomfortable and incorrect assumption. I have no problem stating my views but tend to have various thoughts on various topics!

I'm sorry, babbling again! Must be the merlot chinchincheroo!

Brian

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Although I agree with the majority view expressed on here, once again we've ended up with a string of threads, all agreeing with each other. I thought that perhaps Ianto might give us an argument but, as with his Stanley thread, he's bottled out once the going gets tough.

So why don't some of the other members who are against Guantanamo Bay come on here and express their views? I would've thought that Graham and Gayle might have some strong opinions on the subject. And what about Greg Pope? The man who said "I have been a strong critic of the camp. I think it is a disgrace. As part of the war on terror you cannot hold people without trial. It should be closed at once." I'm sure we'd be interested in his response to our views.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

upon reflection i think it should be closed..

and replaced with gas chambers :)

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

It's not an easy one is it? If however we really did believe in freedom for all we would be against the holding of prisoners of all nations in this camp without trial not just our 'loyal British Subjects', (if ever I get caught doing something illegal abroad I will always state that I am a loyal British subject).

However in the words of The late great Spike Milligan, "Everybody has to be somewhere". and I think the somewhere these people should be is away from the temptation of doing harm to anyone else.

Unfortunately there will be some innocent people caught up amongst the interns they are the only ones I feel sorry for, I just wish the U.S. Justice system could move a little quicker to get those people out of there and the guilty actually sentenced.

UK minister condemns Guantanamo

Above is a recent report of one of our allegedly 'more informed' citizens, he had to go a long way away to state his views though didn't he?

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

The Americans dont seem to know exactly how to deal with these people or wether there are innocents among the guilty. The Britains there could be there because they joined the terrorists or because of wrong place wrong time and only time will tell if innocent or guilty. Our own legal system isnt renowned for getting it right or being as fast as it can be yet we used Internment on the NI terrorists which is no different from what the Americans are doing. They have these people let them deal with it the way they see fit.

To look at it another way some Brits got drunk on a flight to Greece and it looks like they are facing trial on charges that are there for terrorists because they endangered the plane and its passengers because of their behavior in the eyes of the Greeks. Should they be allowed to walk away or should they face trial for what they did? To me there is no difference between these idiots and the ones in Guantanimo they made their bed so they can now lie in it.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:engsmil: Do you know Winnie
you have me well weigh'd up, bottling out of a scrap is my forte, I was the best jacket holder going, well i'm a lover got a godamn fighter ,one has to watch one's reputation.
Just how do the families of these people cope when even the mighty Yanks don't know what to do with their loved ones, just how long will they
keep them locked up :confused:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Have any of the prisoners been put on trial in any sort of court? I don't think so..are they prisoners of war or classed a criminals? every person on this planet should have the right to at least present a case for thier innocence, even the Nazis who murdered millions had a trial. If the U.S. have evidence of terrorist activity then these people should be tried and if found guilty sentenced,were's the problem?

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

They could have piles of evidence but all the interference from many sources are making it harder. Like anything else that needs doing the best way is without some clown trying to tell you how it should be done when they aint got a clue what is happening. The Harry Enfield character who's aim in life was to interfere comes to mind though cant remember the name.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:engsmil: Come on spuggie you know full well what my name is Chin Chin. :cool:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

"Only meeeeeeeeee!" :)

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:cool: Has someone sussed out who this "Maverick" is :confused: Send em to Guantanamo Bay :D

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

As an American, I'll admit to being very concerned about the tactics employed by our current government as regards these prisoners. Holding prisoners for years without trial is not the way I wish my country to operate, just I find the use of torture abhorrent. If we engage in such tactics, we become no better than the many despotic regimes around the world. I was raised to think that the USA had higher values. The UK, too!

If these folks are truly dangerous as so many folks are eager to claim, then by all means try them and lock them up.

I'm sure if the Bush administration had the evidence, they would have held trials. Successful trials ending in convictions would have done wonders to restore public confidence in Mr. Bush's polocies. Aslo, it would have done a lot to convince the world that the morality of the internment camp was justifiable. However, the Bush administration has taken every possible alternative and utlilized egregious delaying tactics instead of holding just trials. At the very least, it leads one to wonder whether these prisoners are merely being held on suspicion.

Frankly, I firmly believe in making sure that real terrorists are properly taken care of. However, I believe even more firmly that the USA must uphold the values of our country. Little things, like adherence to the Geneva convention and "innoncent until proven guilty." If we give up these core values because we are frightened, then the terrorists have indeed scored a victory.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:engsmil: You say Sir that these people are dangerous "how do you know" because Dubya Bush tells you, you have a mind, don't sacrifice it on Dubya's Altar.No man woman or child, should
have to suffer incarceration without "TRIAL". :engsmil:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Actually IantoW, that is not how I interpreted Billcat's reply at all. I think you will find that he will not be "sacrificing his mind on Dubya's Altar," as from posts he makes, I consider his political affiliations lie with the other party.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Thanks!

Actually, had the author of that altar remark read carefully, I think he might find that I share some of the concerns he initially expressed. Frankly, I wonder if his positions are real or if he is just be trying to provoke controversy.

I try not to scarifice my mind on anyone's altar. As you may have noticed, John, I like to dig for the facts and I also enough of an idealist believe that there are some freedoms and values that we should not be scared into sacrificing for a possible reduction in risk.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:D Your right I did get it badly wrong Billicat I lie at your altar a contrite human being, but for
God's sake don't make me go to 'Oswaldtwistle' my mate Tim O Peg from
Clayton pinched the Gobbins Lamp. See your story (anything goes), and don't take life so serious. If tommorow never comes who will be any wiser
Chin Chin. Merlot (waters edge from California) for ever. :D :D :D

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:engsmil: All I seem to be doing these days is
apologising, but when one is wrong one is wrong, honestly I don't thik i'd like to be in them prisoners shoes.
On a lighter note i'm sure we know each other :confused: :confused: .

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Nail on head HIT. You may notice BC most of his posts are like that, start a controversy then amazingly change his stance.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Please check your email.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Spare no tears for these ruthless bastards, who would slit your throat as soon as look at you given half a chance. They are POW's and, as such, should be held in confinement to keep them off the battlefield. Many of those who have been released in the past were later picked up again in combat situations. As these people wear no uniforms and do not fight under the flag of any country, the Geneva Convention should not apply to them.

Those currently held at Camp Gitmo are being treated rather cushily, in my opinion. Good food, top-notch medical and dental care. Top of the line prosthetics for those who need them. Interrogations are highly restricted. There are about 400 POW's down there - with over 1,000 attorneys to represent them. They do not belong in U.S. courtrooms. Military tribunals have always been the norm. But this is now being challenged by the Left.

In the meantime, our military personnel are under constant attack. The Gitmo POW's use all manner of items with which to try and kill them - including parts removed from toilets. Even our doctors must wear full body armor when treating prisoners.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

I agree with you, but you have the
great American constitution? One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, remember the history of the war of independence.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Not to mention a Supreme Court dominated by Republican appointees.:rolleyes:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

:engsmil: None of our Friends has had the courtesey of giving my last question an answer, what about the Great Constitution the Yanks set so much store by, all men are equal, and so on.
Internment does not work, torture does not work , as the British Government found out with the IRA, it only hardens the resolve of the
'terrorist'. Diplock Courts Long Kesh, The Maze did not deter the IRA, it just fueled their resolve. Put them on trial or let them go, your CIA machine should be capable of finding them, after all they always get their man, or so were lead to believe. :cool:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Always get their man? Wasn't that the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police)? Oh, well......

You raise some good points. Perhaps I can simplify. When you treat people with disrespect, when you treat them as less than fully human, it doesn't work. Deciding that you won't talk to other countries doesn't work, either - witness the recent war of words with Iran, or the 40-year-plus attempt by the USA to bring down Fidel Castro. While the Cuban economy is a wreck, Castro is still in power and likely to remain so for life. Treat a a person or country with scorn and it is likely you will get the same in return. Same goes for respect!

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Thank you for your kind remarks Billcat, I think with benefit of hindsight Tony Blair & Dubya Bush would have gone down another road, but it's to late now the die is cast, unfortunatley they will be remembered for the folly of Iraq, not for the good things they undoubtably did.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Billcat ......I've allways found it easy to get a rise out of my fellow Americans when I mention that Fidel Castro is on his 5th Pope and 10th U S President,
a bit like Keith Richards .....he will out-live us all

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Fidel? Keith Richards? Onstage Live!:Banane22:

Frankly, the current strategy has been pretty unproductive. Wastes a pot of money, fails to produce much in the way of useful results.

Wasn't there a quote from Einstein that went something like, "A working definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting diffferent results?" Pretty sage observation.

I'm enough younger than Fidel that I expect to outlive him, but I really wonder what sort of mess will occur once he's gone. Too bad, really, for the people of Cuba who are the real victims of this diplomatic impasse. Too bad, also, for we Americans - we've wasted so much money already and will probably waste more. That same money, constructively used, could've produced some really positive results here at home, in Cuba, or elsewhere.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...genre%3Acomedy

Christmas pressie here for everyone!!!! :-)

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

Do you know slinky sex in the kitchen is a capital offence in America, a necrophilic sailor, when
confronted by the charge of making love to a dead woman, pleaded "I thought it was a yanky woman, not guilty my son.:D :D :D

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

OK................................................ ....:confused:

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

The point sinky is the ambiguity of American justice has no borders, no offence implied, Ian. :D :D :D

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

None taken................... <slinky slides away muttering>:huh8: ( weirdo )

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

That dosn't really matter to be honest. America is not like the UK, they are not loyal to their party, they loyal to their state, it is a very loose alliegence.

Wait sorry maybe that sounds slightly patronising being you are in America. I dont mean it to be, long night last night. ;)

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

No offense taken, but the Supreme Court doesn't work as you described. More than any other part of our government, the justices tend to view things base upon our constitution and prior decisions. I've seen very little evidence of loyalty to a given state or region in the Supreme Court.

Even in the Congress, which is the legislative branch, the past decade or so has seen some remarkable changes, as there has been much greater emphasis on party unity, especially among the Reppubican members.

Re: Guantanamo Bay America's Shame.
 

I must confess when I read your original post I completly misread it and for some reason assumed you said Congress and not supreme court. I feel stupid now. :D I still think my post stands for congress, mainly..

Ops.. sorry :p