EURO
 

what are your views on the euro, do you think we should go along with the rest of the sheep, or be more independent and stay with the £. will the government take are views into consideration or will it do as it pleases, as usual.

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u seen the  euro it like  micky mouse money >:(

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This Euro vote proves one thing - the Swedes are Swedes, not Turnips. Stuff the Euro you know where & lets get the hell out of this pathetic shower known as the "EU".

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Would not go in to the Euro.Here in Germany they are really regretting having done it.Since they did inflation has gone through the roof.The economy is really suffering for it

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Hello Mik,
Stick with the Euro much longer and you lot will be bringing your wages home  (that's if you've got a job )by the barrowload...

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Have some friends in Italy, who said that their prices had really risen since joining the Euro. Noticed myself this year in Greece, that things seemed to be more expensive than when I was there 2 years ago.  ;D

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I can't see one advantage for being in the Euro or, indeed, the EC.

Unlike most other members we pay more money in than we get out.

We have a maze of restrictive and often illogical rules and regulations imposed on us by Brussels.

The Euro parliament itself is a hugely inefficient, wasteful body, riddled by corruption which seems to serve as a comfortable billet for has-been politicians like Neil Kinnock (and his wife).

We pay through the nose to subsidise farmers, while farmers in the third world starve because they can't compete on an unlevel palying field.

Our fishing industry has been decimated by Eurocrats.

The proposed European constitution will take away even more of our autonomy and effectively create a European superstate.

Yet despite all this, the Europhiles tell us that leaving the EC would be a disaster.So how come Norway, one of Europe's most prosperous countries, is not in the EC? And if all the countries on one continent joining together into one superstate is such a good idea, how come it's never been tried anywhere else like Asia or South America?

The EC is one big con. Leave it now!

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It's true that prices in Italy have risen after the Euro, this is because all prices have levelled out across Euro countries, and before the Euro, Italy was cheaper than other places.
For the same reason the Euro could be an advantage for the UK, as the UK is relatively more expensive than other countries (in fact tourists have stopped going there, cos it's really expensive, especially London). This is a good argument for the Euro in Britain.
Also if prices dropped in the UK, export might finally pick up again, therefore creating more employment in the county, more spending and generally a healthier economy.
I agree that from the emotive point of view it would be sad, everyone here was sad to see the Lira go, but from an economic standpoint it would bring many, many advantages for British businesses, and thus also the British consumer. I don't think Britain can afford to stay out of the Euro for much longer, since the introduction in Jan 2001, the British economy has continued to slump, specially in international trade and investment. I just hope everyone that votes in the referendum has the full facts beforehand in order to make an intelligent and well-though-out decision.

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Slump? What slump? Although the UK economy certainly isn't booming, as anyone who lives here will testify, it's far from in a slump. In fact, our economy, along with other non-euro states like Sweden and Denmark, is outperforming euro-economies like France, Germany and Italy.

...so the evidence so far (and it is early days yet) would suggest that there is no economic advantage in joining the euro. There are many disadvantages, though. Like the fact that we will get sucked further into the projected European superstate with its "one-size-fits-all" economy. Just imagine, vital economic factors like our interest rates and taxation decided by a remote body in Brussels, whether we liked it or not.

Fortunately, the Swedish rejection means that our referendum will now be postponed until well into the future when we will have had time to assess the impact of the Euro-economy. The question is, will Tony have a referendum on the European constitution next year - the largest handover in sovereignty in this country for over a thousand years?

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The Euro in effect will be used for business purposes and its an advantage for all holiday makers.You can compare prices directly of that with the homeland.
Jo is correct in a lot of ways.e.g.
Cigarrettes cost in England €7.50
here                                     €3.00
Petrol costs here 50 % less than the U.K.
Cars are about 15% cheaper on the continent when buying new.
However you do not get the deals that you get in the U.K.
All in all one would get a direct comparison on what the Government is fleecing the population of the U.K. on taxes.
Many if and buts on both sides but i believe it would be good for the British population overall

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Can't add anything. It would be too boring to start going into GB economic policy and the GDP from a professional point of view. If anyone works in the sector and has the real statistics at hand, not the ones the media feed you, I know you'll agree with my above statements, if not, I understand the frustration. I really don't feel up to an argument based on facts that the government feed the population. If anyone wants some first hand true government economic info, contact me directly with private message,

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[quote author=Mik_Dickinson link=board=general;num=1063623954;start=0#9 date=09/16/03 at 15:14:37]The Euro in effect will be used for business purposes and its an advantage for all holiday makers.You can compare prices directly of that with the homeland.
Jo is correct in a lot of ways.e.g.
Cigarrettes cost in England €7.50
here €3.00
Petrol costs here 50 % less than the U.K.
Cars are about 15% cheaper on the continent when buying new.
However you do not get the deals that you get in the U.K.
All in all one would get a direct comparison on what the Government is fleecing the population of the U.K. on taxes.
Many if and buts on both sides but i believe it would be good for the British population overall[/quote]

Seems to be a bit of a contradiction here!

Or is it another "insider club? " ;D ;D ;D

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Oh, for goodness sakes Mik get a life. You seem to be getting obsessed!  ::) ::) ::)

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My arguments weren't based on "the facts that the government feed the population." They were based on research carried out on behalf of accountants, Grant Thornton. However, I do agree with you, Jo, that the government are feeding the population a lot of questionable facts - they've been feeding us highly biased propoganda on the merits of the euro and the EC for years!

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So how do the general public decide which is fact and what is fiction?

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Lets just stay as we are ;)

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It was bad enough changing to Decimalisation. Dont want no more changes.  :o

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[quote author=Tealeaf link=board=general;num=1063623954;start=0#4 date=09/15/03 at 16:03:04]Hello Mik,
Stick with the Euro much longer and you lot will be bringing your wages home (that's if you've got a job )by the barrowload...[/quote]
What makes you think i have no job?Work for a company called Alcan.As to bringing the money home.I cannot complain

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The only thing I would worry about, if I we're you, ASFC1951 is that if GB pulls put of the EU (has not been called the EC for years now), would British football clubs still be allowed to play in the UEFA and European Champions League? (just kidding!!)
Sometimes it makes we sad to hear all our conservative British "lets not change anything" points of view. I can understand it as I'm British myself and half that partly inbred too, but having travelled I've been lucky enough to create an open mind. It's just a little frustrating sometimes when you know people don't have the whole truth.
The only way to know the truth is via information, find out as much as you can, for example on internet, about the pros and cons and keep an open mind, don't start making opinions until you hear both sides, and don't start with prejudices.
I hope GB makes the right choice, whatever it is. But remember, if the pound isn't linked to the Euro, it will contunue to be linked to the dollar, so never believe that GB is independent, our future is either more American, or more European or, if some organisations and governments of the world have their way, more Arab.
The days of British colonisation are over, and British indepence is really only a theory, all nations are linked these days through the UN, trade areas etc. Britain is a small island with just around 50 million inhabitants (simiar to the sum of Afgansitan and Iraq), we are not as powerful as we think and allies are a necessity to keep afloat.

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I don't think that opposition to a European superstate has anything to do with the extent of your travels or whether you're conservative or not. Personally having travelled to a variety of places from Macchu Picchu to Harlem, I think my mind is as open as anyone's. But that doesn't mean it's open to accepting anything whether I think it's right or wrong.

Here's a quote - "If Britain is persuaded to join the single currency we shall, forever, have lost the right of self-government through the ballot box and all key decisions will be taken by those we did not elect and cannot remove." Those were the words of Tony Benn. Hardly a conservative (either with a big or small "c").

As for the European Champions League, I doubt that Stanley will have to worry about that for a while yet!

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Jo.

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Hello ASFC1951!
Sorry meant conservative, not Conservative - had nothing to do with the political party, I simply meant that we Brits are often unwilling to accept change, ie we are conservative, it's in our nature.
Please also don't think I meant you do not have an open mind, it wasn't a statement meant personally to you, or anyone, my point was just that sometimes people are closed minded and often do not get the true info they deserve.
Regarding giving up sovereignty, I do agree with you in part, just don't know if it's a totally bad thing, as we don't have that much sovereignty anyway, we are so much influenced by what the Americans decide (eg. war in Iraq).
I'm glad we can agree to disagree, that's also nice sometimes. Thanks for that chance - didn't want to keep on arguing the point, I'm afraid I'd bore everyone. Let's say there are fors and agiansts, and we agree to disagree, OK? :)

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p.s. I'll keep hoping for Stanley in the UEFA, then I can finally see them on TV here in Italy. Perhaps I should add that one to the "what are your dreams" section!

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Stuff the Euro. Lets bring back real money - Guineas, Bobs, Tanners, farthings and ther'punny bits. It will at least teach the kids how to think.

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Ok, Jo, it was nice debating with you anyway. At least we can agree on Stanley!

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[quote author=ANNE link=board=general;num=1063623954;start=0#12 date=09/16/03 at 22:47:30]Oh, for goodness sakes Mik get a life. You seem to be getting obsessed! ::) ::) ::)[/quote]

Thanks Anne but i personally would prefer the word
possessed.Meant to be a joke.All light heartedly meant

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[quote author=flopsy link=board=general;num=1063623954;start=0#11 date=09/16/03 at 19:14:26]


Seems to be a bit of a contradiction here!

Or is it another "insider club? " ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]

Nice teeth by the way Flopsy

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[quote author=ANNE link=board=general;num=1063623954;start=0#12 date=09/16/03 at 22:47:30]Oh, for goodness sakes Mik get a life. You seem to be getting obsessed! ::) ::) ::)[/quote]

I do believe you are making eyes at me

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I am back over in the UK at the moment, but the € has been a disaster in Spain. Prices rocketed, not only through traders exploiting the new currency, but with the overall economic slump brought on by the €. The germans haven't got jobs, so they can't holiday, and the ones that can, don't come to spain cos its too expensive. Lets not forget, that even taking German reunification into consideration, germany since the introduction of the € has gone from the most powerful economy in Europe into a slump. Fact.

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Yeah. Agree with the argument about Spain - similar to situation in Italy, all of the "poorer" European nations have suffered from introduction of the Euro, especially on a personal, consumer level. Fact.
Germany however, is in a slump for MANY MANY different reasons than the Euro. (this is also a fact). If it didn't at least have the support of the European financial and fiscal structure via the Euro, it would most probably be in an even worse mess. (This is just my humble economic prediction, not a fact, but I could back it up if the point is of interest to you and you don't mind some boring economics jarble...)  maybe it's better though to discuss football or something more interesting? (At least I would prefer it that way!) :)

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maybe it's better though to discuss football or something more interesting? (At least I would prefer it that way!) :)[/quote]

Ok do agree.Especially that 5 - 1 beating in Munich.That will be a thing i will never forget

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[quote author=Tealeaf link=board=general;num=1063623954;start=0#4 date=09/15/03 at 16:03:04]Hello Mik,
Stick with the Euro much longer and you lot will be bringing your wages home by the barrowload...[/quote]

But tealeaf i have to do that now.My wage packet is that big Securicor meets me at the gate every month.

Aye right, i wish. :-*

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Must admit that the big DOWNER of the Euro was thatt I used to earn millions (of lire) and now I only earn thousands (of Euro). Psychologically it seems I'm much poorer....