American (Georgian) style policing
 

Any Brits with thoughts of visiting Georgia should read this ........
incidentally this is the home state of one of our regular contributors......
I await her comments on this incident :D :D :D , if they behave this way to a visiting history professor I wonder how they treat members of the local ethnic communites.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...istorian11.xml

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Next time he might listen, they should try that here.:Banane33:

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

id have thought that it would be comon sense when in a foreign country to make yourself aware of the rules and seeing that this is a supposedly well educated person i'd have thought that this would have been obvious.

i make two observations from the picture

1. it's pretty obvious to anyone that these are police officers
2. he doesn't look like he has been subjected to the extreme violence he
so claims he experienced

it seems to me that this is just another toffee nosed git in a foreign country with the "that's hardly cricket old boy" attitude

bet he won't do it again though!

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

well done to the police i wish they would do that to the morons here that just walk out into the road without looking :D


i have an online buddy who is a state marshall i think they call them in georgia and he woulda probably shot the idiot :D

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

from teh story

so hes in jail for breaking the law but somehow hes above everyone esle in jail

deserved to get a kicking teh snotty nerd :rolleyes:

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

I've travelled the world, and have never been arrested.

The professor sounds an idiot, and a snob.

It would have been interesting to read a fuller account of the incident from the police officer's side.

Moral, when in Rome, or Atlanta, don't jay walk, and if you break the law comply with the authorities, even if you have leather patches on the elbows of your tweed jacket.

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I wonder if 'Bullseye' has read this yet steeljack.:D

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Looks like the police around there are just egotistical idiots.
You can jaywalk in some of the busiest places in the world such as Manhattan without a cop batting an eyelid but once the donut munchers in Georgia (just look at the detective with the beer gut - I really bet you'd want that serving and protecting you) get the chance to exercise authority then they abuse it.
The guy is a snob yes, but no one deserves that treatment.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

If you go down to 'day 3' of this link, you can watch the 'victims' account of the incident, by pressing play on the YouTube link.

Though he doesn't mention the kicking, and flying arms that he apparently exhibited when asked for his i-d, according to the offical police report.

http://hnn.us/articles/33409.html#Day3

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what a twot!!!!

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Just sounds like a snob. Its quite funny actually.

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When in Rome.

He might have been shot then he might have had a complaint. Try that over here and shouts of police brutality and my human rights would come forth faster than a Cheetah on speed. :eek:

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Are you guys really serious? Because you think this professor is a snob it's OK for his to be violently assaulted by the police?

Why is he a snob? Is it because he speaks with an educated accent and doesn't say "Well, like, er, yunno" ? He seems like a very aimiable mild mannered likeable chap to me. He clearly didn't realise that the person speaking to him was a policeman but from what he says he hadn't even ignored the guy. He'd thanked him for telling him he couldn't cross the road there.

As a foreigner in town would he be clearly aware that it was a crime to cross the road there? Especilly considering he'd seen plenty of other people doing so. Is there anyone on this board who has never crossed elsewhere than on a zebra crossing or waited for the little green man? I see loads of people in accy walking across at pelican crossings when the red man is lit.

Is it really so offensive to ask the policeman to identify himself as a police officer? I thought they were obliged to do that anyway (seen them flashing the badge so many times in the movies) and over here we are constantly being told we should ask officials for their ID and that they expect this and will not be offended.

This part of the article struck me:

Even the prosecutors seemed embarrassed? The judge approved of the charges being dropped? The AHA is not best chuffed.

I don't think the large gentleman is a police officer. It sounds like he was one of the security staff who came out to assist.

Why did the professor need to be kicked to the ground even if he was being arrested? Did the policeman really need 4 others to assist him? He wasn't tackling the incredible hulk.

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If they did something like that to an African American there would be hell to pay.I think this sort of thing is happening because copper's today have no power over crim's,and they pick on the easy target,ordinary citizen,s like him,who don't deserve shabby treatment like that.

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like i said judging by the pics and now the video - no visible signs of extreme violence

bearing in mind an upper class twerps interpretation of excessive violence does generally differ somewhat to joe publics

methinks the press are trying to beef up the story in their usual way

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I think he should count his bessings he didn't even get a caution, and that it happened in Atlanta Georgia, rather than Stockwell south London, where he might have been shot dead.:D

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I'm originally from Atlanta. Certainly would never wish to move back.

You raise some good points. In many big cities, the police on occasion get way out of line. It's obvious that this cop overrated in a very serious way. While jaywalking is against the law, it is only a minor misdemeanor, roughly on a par with a parking violation! And I'm not aware that being a snob, or being a slob for that matter, is a chargeable offense anywhere.

Any reasonable city cop is also very well aware that, while jaywalking may be strictly enforced in Atlanta or Seattle, there are many cities in the USA where it is not. Can't imagine a NYC cop spending time on such nonsense when there are far more serious problems that need to be dealt with.

If this cop wanted enforce the law, he should have promptly identified himself as a policeman and told the professor that he was being issued a summons. Even in Seattle, when the cops realize that you are from out of town, they generally let you off with a warning. Once the visitors know the rules, they generally comply.

Not surprised that the judge threw the case out. They don't want to waste their time on this stuff either. There are more important issues to be addressed.

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True his class has nothing to do with it, but his arrogance has. The police were doing their job, mainly stopping people getting killed from crossing between the two hotels. He should have complied with the request for i-d, and should not have flailed his arms and legs about when he was being arrested.

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

But none of that would have happened, if he had produced his driving licence when requested, or even simpler complied with the request in the first place not to cross the road.

It's hardly up there with Rodney King, in the list of police brutality.

When you travel, you obey the laws and customs of your host country or pay the consequences, you don't bleat about it afterwards.

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Please remember that in the USA, driving is done on the right-hand side of the road. This is of course, illogical, both from a health and a social viewpoint. It is a simple fact that the 50-odd countries that drive on the left have a lower accident per mile/vehicle than those that drive on the right. And, of course, if your girlfriend/wife happens to be right handed, it is much better that she sits on your left to give some comfort in the course of a long and arduous journey, such as to and from the Accy ASDA.

Is it any wonder, then, that American or European pavements have to be policed in the way they are? The simple solution to all this nonsense about jaywalking is to make traffic drive on the correct side of the road - the left - and then we can all cross the road in safety and without harressment from cops who have nowt else to do.

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

He did have his UK driving licence on him at the time, but not his passport.

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Who gives a damn what sort of identification he had with him? This arrogant fool chose to break the laws of a country of which he was a guest; he gave a little bit of lip to a copper and got a little slap in return. So what?

Can someone tell me what is currently going on in Accrington? Has the storm blown over yet? Do I need my wellys tomorrow?

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Oh dearie me. I'm in agreement with old Teabag on this one.

Re: the weather in Accy.

Storm still raging. All roads are closed, and impassable. Travellers warned to stay at home.:D

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

If you are going to put ur wellies on put weights in the bottom!!

and I agree with Tealeaf and Garinda on this one.

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

This is an interesting paragraph

I would much rather cross where there is only traffic from two directions if there isn't a pelican crossing type thing with lights at the crossroads. In fact I've walked up a road rather than cross at a junction many times. Good job it's not illegal here. In fact didn't the Green Cross Man actually tell children to cross "away from junctions and parked cars"?

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right or wrong i still find the bashing of this ****** hilarious :D

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I too agree with Tealeaf here. I also believe the cop was probably one of our arrogant type of police officer.

I work with aot of police officers and they come in all types. Unfortunately, many have an overactive bravado about them. These types use their position of authority in a somewhat bullyish manner.

You can see it on the "Cops" show. I've seen some of those guys (cops) reactive so violently when there was absolutely no cause. They just felt like either showing off for the camera or having a go at someone who isn't allowed to "resist!"

I mean, even in this case, it was only Jaywalking. In all the cities or towns I've been in, jaywalking is permissable (although still basically illegal). Where the cities/towns take it more seriously and enforce this law it is usually clearly posted along many of the roads!

Brian

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

And, if the cop is really concerned about jaywalking, a polite warning is usually the worst outcome.

About the only time I've ever seen a cop get upset with jaywalking is when a fellow did some very unsafe jaywalking with his children. The cop's theme was pretty much "get yourself killed if you wish, but don't endanger the kids." No ticket, just a stern warning.

You are also correct, LancYorkYankee, there police work attracts a number of folks who abuse the powers of the office. It's a small percentage, but one that does a lot to destroy respect for law enforcement. Had a fellow the year behind me in high school who went into the local force. A felloow with little in the way of people skills from his early days, not a lick of common sense, and never changed. Spent his career doing whatever the captain (a pretty good friend of mine) could do to keep him away from interaction with the public - and a lot of time on probationary status for his improper behavior! I can easily imagnie him acting as the officer did in Atlanta.

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Yeah, I agree with that Billcat. I too knew a few guys from high school who became cops. It seemed to be either the bullies or the ones who had been bullied. Both types joined the force with some anger or people lacking issues. It's unfortunate how they do bring discredit to the rest of the police.

:D:D I mean, the typical U.S. cop is content with his daily dozen donuts and lack of any type of physical exertion!:D :D

Brian

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Why do they do they call it 'Jaywalking', I do not think this beautiful bird would be daft enough to walk in front of traffic in 'blighty', never mind a main street in the USA. As for the brutal police officer was he racially motivated? Correct me if I am wrong please, but did not the State of Georgia play a significant part in the slave trade.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexper...ins/jaywalking


Bah, those damn Yankies are to blame again.:D

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Could well be true.
That bloke's accent certainly makes me want to give him a slap!

Surely the just and fair USA law enforcement should be more professional :rolleyes: Yeh right...

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

after viewing the videos of the interview with the supercilious arrogant prat of a history professor I agree with the actions of Bubba , think I would have given him a slap 'upside' the head . I dont think the cop was guilty of racial profiling , unless it was against effete British intellectuals who think its ok to use the word 'louche' in everyday conversation .........:D :D

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well i say send him to joe arpaio - that'll teach him not to jaywalk (or give grief to a copper)

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

'I come from a country where you can cross the road where you like," said the visiting professor of global environmental history.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6251431.stm


Yes you do Professor. You also come from a country where the age of consent is sixteen. So it's a good job you didn't sleep with a girl in Arizona, because unlike here the age of consent is eighteen in that state.

I wasn't there to witness this incident, but I just know there was the sort of attitude from the learned academic, that shouts of
'How very dare you! Don't you know who I am?'

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reminds me of those damned impudent fuzzy wuzzy's - they don't like it up 'em you know!

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The '...but I didn't know officer!' is of course a lie. & very 'Carry On...'.

Still, as I said earlier, no one deserves that kind of treatment for such a non-crime.

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I think the professor protesteth to much .....probably the type who likes being roughed-up by a guy in cop uniform, I understand there are folks that enjoy this type of abuse :eek:

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Whose the Daddy?:D

http://www.trinachow.com/blog/images..._05/folsom.jpg

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Now now garinda the Yanks are past masters at playing that card, "you can't do that, don't you realise i'm an American citizen"

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yep, and probably everyone of them is a vegan .....

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I honestly disagree. Over 50% of my customers used to be Americans, and nearly all were respectful and uncomplaining, whilst in our country. Well once they realised it wasn't always foggy, we rode in carriages, and didn't all wear Deer Stalker hats.

Oh, and that our drinks don't always come with ice, and we have no air conditioning.:D

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I suspect you are wrong. I bet they eat meat.

How very louche.:D

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Ooh Rindy, thought you were referring to someone in Georgia as a Yankee. That'd be a HUGE faux pas! Just to protect me English mates from bloodshed if they ever happen to visit here . . . please don't refer to anyone from "the South" as a Yankee. It'd be kinda like me calling you guys . . . wait for it . . . :eek: Irishmen:eek: (he ducks at the horror).

However, the article correctly stated that jaywalking was "invented" in Boston, which, from only your guys, and the Souths, point of view could be referred to as Yankees. However, as a New Englander myself, you could also be popped up there for calling any of them folks Yankees

It's based on the hated rivalry in the game of baseball between the Boston Red Sox (yay, woohoo, yippee, Go Sox) and the hated New York Yankees (boo, hiss, eat my shorts Billcat . . .).

Okay, American etiquet lesson, and 3 lagers, over!

Brian

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Okay, wicked thread wander here!

Rindy, I blame you for my bit of overindulgence tonight. Why the heck would you horrify us all with that pic of Nellie bloody Olson from Little House on The Prairie! Am I correct about that or am I hallucinating over here?

Oh what a little beast she was!! (not that I ever watched that girlie show, though I did "have a friend" who thought Mr. Edwards was pretty cool!

Brian

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

"Where I'm from, you don't associate young gentlemen in bomber jackets with the police. But he was extremely upset I had questioned his bona fides," recalled Fernandez-Armesto.



But Leonpacher said he asked Fernandez-Armesto why he didn't follow the instructions of a uniformed officer, and the author shrugged him off and walked away.



"He was swinging, kicking wildly," Leonpacher said.





It's hardly thanking him, and walking away, before being arrested. Sounds to me he was being an arrogant ass.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

I don't think I'd associate a young man in a bomber jacket with the police either and what's wrong with asking for ID? We ask people who come to read the meter to prove who they are don't we? OK that's because we let them into our homes, but aren't police officers supposed to show people their ID not get the 'ump about being asked for it?

Didn't the kicking wildly take place after he'd been thrown to the floor and pounced on? A fairly natural reaction I would have thought. It's not exactly pleasant to have your legs kicked out from under you and find yourself face down on the ground with several people on top of you.


The kicking of the legs from under him occurred after he was thanking and walking away and before he was flailing wildly didn't it?

I can't help wondering what would have happened if the prof had had a heart condition and suffered a heart attack whilst all this was happening. What if the officer did the same to someone in poor health and as a consequence the person died?

I'm still not convinced the actions were appropriate. Yes the guy crossed the road in the wrong place. Yes he should have been corrected for doing so - but was the punishment really equal to the crime? If he'd been a mugger who'd robbed a little old lady's handbag then I could have understood the cop flooring him to prevent his escape, but for crossing the road in the wrong place?

Yes it still puts me off visiting Georgia if this should be regarded as normal acceptable behaviour.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Apparently he was kicking wildly when an attempt was made to arrest him, thus other officers were called to assist.

All the officers in the photograph look like policemen to me.

Then again, I'd have had the good sense to show my driving licence, and wouldn't have been arrested in the first place.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

dont think he was floored for jaywalking i think it was more the attitude and the walking away then the kicking and flailing - couldn't this be interpreted as resisting arrest?

it is actually nice to see that police in some places in the world aren't prepared to take any cr#p

if he had done as he was asked in the first place none of this would have happened!

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

I presume his legs were kicked from under him whilst he was kicking and flailing his arms about.

Reading the full account on the site were the video was posted, all the delegates knew there was police outside to prevent them from jaywalking, because they were complaining about it. They were there to prevent them presumably from being injured or killed, if they were knocked down.

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He didn't walk away, he admitted he challenged on what authority the police officer had to see his i-d.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Well I can see the bit where it says:

I don't see where it says that they'd been doing it before.

When I read that part previously I was just pleased to see that they hadn't manhandled anyone else and assumed that perhaps they'd learned that less is more.

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Well without going around in circles, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I just know none of it would have happened to me, because I have more sense, and would have complied with the request for i-d.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

but was he actually kicked to the ground?

or was he pushed onto the ground to be handcuffed ( a common thing to quickly and safely immobilise the person and prevent injury to both detainee and police officer if detainee decides to put up a fight)

i believe that this has been blown out of all proportion and that it is the nutty professor and the press that are ott in this case

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

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depends on the situation if they agree yes
if not then it means using force and putting the suspect on the ground is one of the safest and most effective ways for both police officer and suspect

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Looking back and after a look at some of the posts I started to wonder why wlse the cops would go nuts. Then it occured to me that its not just the numpty bimbling accros the road in the wrong place that gets hurt. There is the car that could hit him and the trouble that would cause with injuries possibly to the driver. Then what about the mental trauma the medical bills and what it would do to any kids seeing it especially if they were in the car. So fair doo's the police were over the top but compared to what might have happened he got off lightly.

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Now that's a very interestingly different slant to things Rindy because to read the officers account there is no reference at all to the professor having his legs kicked out from under him and yet:

At least it hasn't been dismissed or poohpoohed by Mayor Shirley Franklin who said she has asked police chief Richard Pennington to look into 'the incident' so it is obviously a concern that this shouldn't be a normal ocurrance.

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Nope. Donuts! :p

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"Eat my shorts?" My, you are being retro today!

You are welcome to my share of the lagers.

Red Sox? Red Sox? Is that one of those minor-league franchises? :confused: I will admit, however, that my dad was a Boston Braves fan while he was at Hahvahd! "Spahn, Sain, and two days of rain!"

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

An English accent and just a soupcon of attitude (or the preception of attitude, even) would be enough to set off some cops. Obviously, as the mayor saw fit to have this incident investigated, there is a possibility that something was amiss.

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Yes,But these fine officer's are attached to the vice squad,Georgia,s best kept secret.Jay walking is a way of life to them.

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

I would have liked to be a fly on the wall
after this case was thrown out of Court,just
to hear the avalanche of scorn put on this overzealous cop by his superiors.What a waste of Taxpayers money.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

At first blush, I was inclined to be sympathetic towards the Prof. After all, it's not entirely unheard of for Atlanta cops to do a little body-slamming. However, after I read his remarks about this experience as it relates to our country, I had a change of heart......and I quote:

"I have long known, as any reasonable person must, that the courts are the citizen's only protection against a rogue executive and uncontrolled security forces. Though my own misadventure was trivial - and in perspective laughable - it resembles what is happening to the world in the era of George W. Bush. The planet is policed by a violent, arbitrary, stupid and dangerous force. Within the USA, the courts struggle to maintain individual rights under the bludgeons of the "war on terror", defending Guantanamo victims and striving to curb the excesses of the system. We need global institutions of justice and judges of Judge Jackson's level of humanity and wisdom to help protect the world."

So, there you are. And what would that force be? Why, the United States, of course! No mention of the threat of Islamic fascism. No mention of the violent, arbitrary and dangerous nature of flying airplanes into office buildings. In fact, the good Prof puts scare quotes around his reference to the war on terror, as if to say that he doesn't really believe that there is any terrorism to be fought. Then he goes on to say that what we really need is some sort of an international court to protect the world from the United States. Some historian. Perhaps he doesn't remember the role of the United States in saving his precious Europe from Hitler and Soviet expansionism.

All the guy had to say to the police officer was, "I'm sorry. I'll be more careful next time." He would have been on his way in moments. But given the above diatribe, is it possible he gave the cop some lip?


I agree with many of the posters on this thread. The guy is a pompous ass.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

It's a bit hard to read, but here is a copy of the police report.

Included is a statement from another delegate, a Professor no less, stating that the officer in question 'kept his cool'.


http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/metro/MetJayWalk.pdf

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Update. This past week, a lady went jaywalking in Atlanta. No watchful, donut eating cop in sight. She went splat. Now deceased. I think people really should pay attention when crossing busy city streets. Use the designated crosswalks for goodness sake!

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

This is the bit that realy amused me.
And this statement ha ha.
America land of the 'not' so free to go, sorry if I appear cynical but they'd have been better off saying nowt.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

The jacket the police officer was wearing the day the Professor refused to obey his order not to cross the road where he wanted to.


Seems pretty obvious to me, unless there was also a Village People convention near by.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news...atjaywalk.html

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

hmmmm is it just me or does it quite categorically state atlanta police

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

There is an old saying in Yorkshire where I was Born, I have heard 'posher' versions but here goes. "There is a difference between sh*****g yourself and blowing your brains out", that my good friends is what was lacking here, not who was right, and who was wrong. DISCRETION!

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Willow even if as they have dubed him, was a giant SNOB, it did not warrant the level of violence dished out by this COWARD of a 'police' officer, who obviously had the 'odds' weighed up.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

just read through this thread i believe about 90% of what the press publish is either exajerated or pure crap, about 40% of what the police say is the same. about 99% of people who are accused say they are innocent, as any prison officer will testify, and reading between the lines of all this info i believe that there was a damn site more to this than jaywalking. just my 2 cents.;)

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Me to cashman like I said before, who was right or wrong defeats me, but the way the saga has been handled leaves a lot to be desired. I once would have said "it could only happen in America", but after recent events in London 'the man from Brazil' fiasco, i'm not so sure now.

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

agree with that,saying though everyone i.e. the guy,the police,as the primary two but i cant help but wonder that if this had been a working class oik or a bum, would the justice system have thrown it out?that i have serious doubts about.

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As details have come out over time it appears this guy (the professor) is a bit of a jerk , evidently he is a teacher at Tufts university near Boston Massachusetts , as such he is not FOB (Fresh Of the Boat)and has spent some time in the US and as such knows the laws about crossing the street ,

As I said in an earlier post he is probably just an effette intellectual looking for a bit of rough and wanted to get slapped around

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It would not even have made the papers, unless 'Billy's Weekly Liar' had taken it up.;)

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Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

Being half Spanish, and a little on the dark side, I think he was lucky not to have been shot.:D

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

nah, that only happens over here. ;)

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'Where I'm from you don't associate young gentlemen in bomber jackets with the police.'

That one supercilious comment sums up his all elitist attitude. As was pointed out this is a well travelled individual, not some naive first time tourist. The laws of any land apply the same to everyone. No one is above it, as the Professor found out.

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This has got to be an accyweb first four members agreeing, garinda when are you going to change that hideous activar for something a little more attractive, like an Atlanta s**t kicker cop in a bomber jacket.:D

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Since it's the atavar that's had the most negative comments, I shall keep it a while longer, if only to unite people.

My little way of bringing peace and harmony to Accy Web.:)

Re: American (Georgian) style policing
 

You are as sadistic as the said Atlanta cop.:D

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Make it 5 people agreeing Ian. I still think the cops were the bullying bravado creeps though.

And Nellie Roo Olson . . . . . . .:o