Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

The only experenice i have on this is in military prison and we got 22p a day

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Thats why jail is so popular these days. I agree the money they earn should be taxed for the sake of the victims. If they are being paid a minimum then take of board and lodgings as well.

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No ther should not be given anything. They should be given the worst cheapest stuff ever to keep costs down. They dont like it? Dont break the law then.

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mr Magic did you get out of the wrong side of bed this morning? Even I wouldnt have them using cheap soap and deoderant as that would be bad for the atmosphere.

:p :D

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LOL no im in a very good mood today as ive just recieve my tax rebate. Not a bad start to a monday morning to get the tax man saying hey carl have £417

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

err, shouldn't that read "Hey Carl, heres that £417 that we've overcharged you that you have lost interest/investment opportunity on"

As for prisoners... they should earn minimum wage for their work and all the money given/shared between the victims of their crimes for the whole period of their detention.

Prison life should be hard, it should be uncomfortable, it should itself be the deterrent to re-offending.

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Yeah thats true ian but its still a nice suprise when you didnt know anything about it lol.

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Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

They are in prison so they should forfiet their rights.

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Prison is mean to put them off breaking the law right so why give them anything better than the basic cheapest stuff.

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Human rights, they shouldn't have any, the fact that they earn minimum wage is an insult to law abiding citizens, they should work for pence and the rest is for their keep at least then the tax payers wouldn't be footing the bill.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

which is what i've been saying all along!
for fear of severe retribution yet again i still say prisoners get too cushy a life and prison offers no reasons to 'go straight'

well why should they when they get free bed and board, no bills , computers,sky tv,games consoles etc.and a wage to boot!

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

This isn't about any 'stuff' - whether they work or not the prisoners will have the same 'stuff' - same food, same TV, same recreational facilities, same chance of open university courses, which is a different subject; although I do agree with you that they shouldn't get all these things. Then you get people coming along who say that prison isn't a holiday camp and that it's a really hard life for them in there. It's a bloomin harder life for a lot of people out here! Oh and thank you for the silly karma deduction which makes no more sense than your response to this topic did :D


I agree that they should forfeit any rights when they are convicted of a crime - I mean convicted criminals not those on remand who may be proven innocent. I was gobsmacked to find that they earn at least the minimum wage. At least? What does that mean some of them may be earning then? And no bills to pay!!! So they are a darned site better off in prison, full pay and nothing to spend it on. It's an insult to the victims of their crimes.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Thats the problem these days prison is not a deterent, infact its a cushy life for some, and its costing the tax payers a fortune.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

And leaving bad karma like this makes sense does it?...

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3...rmashowat8.jpg

Nobody said what? Which bit are you talking about? Sign it at least please willow

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I was unaware that they got minimum wage and quite shocked by it, though shouldn't be surprised really this country is just getting softer and softer.

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Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Gets any softer and Johnstons and certain soap powders will be suing the govenment.
:mad:

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Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Prisoner's should not be paid anything, as all their basic needs are met, such as food and accommodation.

They should be made to work on one of these for twelve hours a day, and help power the national grid.

http://www.inverarayjail.co.uk/Story/punishments.htm

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I read somewhere recently that (I think it was the head of prisons) prisoners are being punished for having their freedom taken away!!!

WELL THATS NOT ENOUGH IN MY BOOK :mad:

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i remember when people were afraid to goto prison in case they got bummed in teh showers , now they go for free education courses and holidays

probably do still get bummed in teh showers but since the invention of soap on a rope i guess its safer in there now :eek:

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Prison isn't a deterrent.

It's a free holiday away from home for a lot of Chavs.

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so if not allowing to go out is a punishment then it's about time the govt did something to help those isolated in their own homes because they are too scared to go out after being targeted by some of the low lifes now in prison!!

Or is it they deserve the punishment too, doh!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Sat down at lunch and considered the question about defending them. The conclusion I came to is " why the hell should I these twallies are better of than me!!!" I would be better off in the pokey than working for a living.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Prisoners do not get the minimum wage...I don't know were that notion came from!
I'm certainly not going to start sticking up for convicted criminals but lets get the basic facts.
Only around 15% of the prison population actually do industrial/manufactoring work...maybe another 10% do prison work such as cleaning and cooking... the average wage paid is around £9 per week.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I think they have to be paid the minimum wage when they work outside on jobs, and are allowed to save so much money in preperation for re-settlement on release.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Well I got the notion from a spokesman on the radio this morning who was being interviewed by John Humphries who was equally gobsmacked at the idea of them getting a minimum wage.

If they only get £9 then why didn't the spokesman say that? He was the one who said that by law if they do any manufacturing work etc then they have to be paid the minimum wage, by law. I don't care how many percent do it or how few get the minimum wage, if it's only one it's one too many.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I'm not sure willow, but the minnimum wage applies to all workers, letting them keep it is an issue that I am not sure on they may deduct some for their 'keep'.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Interesting debate. Here’s my view on the issue, although I have put this forward before some time ago.

Although sailors in the RN do not stay at sea as long as they used to nonetheless a warship can spend a few weeks at sea without touching land. I spent 2 spells of 3 months each at sea on Cyprus patrol in site of land all the time but never on it except for one occasion to play the Welch Regiment at football and once for an afternoon’s R & R on a beach at Limasol that was guarded by armed soldiers, so it wasn’t too much fun.

So those sailors onboard a warship are to all intents and purposes ‘locked up’, can’t go out to the pub when they want to (unless they happen to be a very good long distance swimmer), can’t have relatives visiting them, have to sleep, eat and work in cramped conditions (and not just nine to five but all hours of the day and night) and for some suffer rough weather and being sea sick and then to cap it all have someone chucking live shells and missiles at them with the odd torpedo snook in.

Compare that to life in a prison!

When a prisoner walks through the prison gates going in s/he should lose all human rights except the HUMANE rights – full stop.

The prisoner should be punished for the crime by spending a portion of the sentence (say one third) being denied all but the basics and being made to work. Whether the pay is derisory or the minimum wage is not the issue with me providing that 90% of it goes to compensate the victims of crime. On reflection a prisoner should receive the minimum wage so that there is more to compensate victims with.

If that period of time is served without any problems and the criminal starts to show genuine remorse for what was done, the next phase (again one third) would bring some ‘extras’, more work (50% to the victim, 30% to be saved as a starting ‘purse’ upon release, 20% for the prisoner to spend in the prison ‘shop’) and rehabilitation. Should the prisoner negotiate that phase without any problems, the final third would be on parole.

For the hard cases who refuse to conform then the FULL SENTENCE would be as the first third.

Under such a regime it is unlikely that anyone but the hard cases will every want to go back, especially if the rehabilitation included some sort of work training and a job to go to when the prisoner is released.

Most places of work are obliged to take on a certain number of disabled people so why not a couple of ex-cons as well.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

This is an extract taken from Hansard Parliment written answers 2006

Mr. Sutcliffe: The following table shows the total amount of wages paid to prisoners in public sector prisons over the past five years. This information is not available for private sector prisons. It is a matter for individual contractors how they record their expenditure.

Total amount paid (£)
2005-06
29,614,080

2004-05
28,097,260

2003-04
26,469,070

2002-03
24,520,007

The total amount for each year represents an average weekly wage per prisoner of approximately £8.00.

the full document is here...http://www.publications.parliament.u...61010w0010.htm

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I would imagine the only circumstances in which a prisoner would get the minimum wage is if the prisoner was working from an open prison.. and doing an every day job for a private company.. i.e Mcdonalds...then I suppose he/she would get the minimum wage and rigthly so... if they were just paid £9 for a 40hr week at Mcdonalds the only people to profit would be Mcdonalds!...

Of course there is a case to say a high percentage of the prisoners wages could be held back but that is another argument...

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

That was the point I was trying to make mancie, but I couldn't seem to seperate the the inside from the outside work. A TV program I watched on prisons showed a woman at the end of a drug dealing sentence allowed out to work on a delivery van, she bought a car and had enough to part furnish a flat they found for her on release she had the deposit for the flat as well. Also she was made a criminal bankrupt upon sentence and her previous assets sold, so she basicly got a clean start.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

You and me both willow, I was at the colo-rectal clinic the other week a bloke was handcuffed to two prison officers, and a taxi with driver from Preston was waiting for them, when they got out of the cinic they shouted to the taxi driver to come with them to the canteen as it was dinner time. They have no queues to wait in for any dental or medical treatment they may require, as the prison service can be sued for not attending to their needs in a responsible fashion. It cost my wife and I £16.00 for taxi fares how much did the prisoner pay?

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

If the prisoners don't get to keep any of the money, why would they work? Seems to me that getting prisoners used to working, and used to being able to get some limited range of items as the result of work, is an important step in attempting to modify their behavior.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

[quote=WillowTheWhisp;388626]Then you get people coming along who say that prison isn't a holiday camp and that it's a really hard life for them in there. It's a bloomin harder life for a lot of people out here! [/quote]

If that's the way you feel, then why have you not opted for prison? If what you said above is true, wouldn't that be the rational choice? After all, there are any number of ways you could manage to get "inside!"

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Looks like someone did his homework!

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I knew they didn't get paid minimum wage.. im glad Mancie researched it so I didn't have to :D

They should definatly earn some sort of wage though, they need to have money for when they get out.. if they just go back to living in crappy conditions (since thats where a lot of prisoners come from) then they'd just be back in the same position.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I'm not saying they shouldn't keep any of the money - but why should they keep it all and get free board and lodgings?


I'm not planning on breaking the law.


Ah but the ones who work for companies outside of the prison do get the minimum wage at least - and yet they have no bills to pay so they are financially better off than their innocent workmates which just makes no sense.

There is a the suggestion being put forth that they should only keep a part of the wage and the rest should go into some sort of victim compensation fund. That seems only fair to me when they don't have any living expenses.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

But there are a number of folks here who are suggesting that the prisoners should keep none.


Nor am I. I know that I will not find "cushy" conditions in prison. Quite the opposite, in fact.

BUT - If conditions in prision, as some have claimed, are so much better on the inside, it would be irrational not to seek the better conditions. So, why are you not trying to take advantage? Why aren't most people?

After all, there are any number of ways to break the law where, in essence, all you do is inconvenience someone else. For example, make a habit of stealing cars (without damaging them, of course) and drive them to a place where they are certain to be ticketed or towed, leaving some obvious clues in the vehicle as to who should get credit for this dastardly act. You could even leave a note, so that the owner would know where to find the vehicle.

Why aren't most people taking advantage of the better "cushy" conditions that some claim they would find in jail? Perhaps those "some" who make such claims aren't truly convinced that they are presenting an accurate picture?

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Did a bit of homework. Appears that only those prisoners who are working in the community are entitled to the minumum wage. See this link (2005 info):
http://www.ilpa.org.uk/briefings/IAN2005BriefNC2Rep.doc
also
http://pso.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/PS...soners_pay.doc

There is an emphasis on purposeful activity, which is certainly something I would support. Minimum pay for in-prision work is GBP 4/week. Not a lot!

Frankly, I believe that any restitution to victims should be set by the judge at sentencing or, alternatively, through civil proceedings.


In any case, enjoy the links. Much better to work with the facts at hand!

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Okay, late to this discussion but felt I'd give my opinion anyway. Id like the prisoners to take more responsibility for the costs they incur. Why not charge them for their "basic" needs being met? I'd MAYBE even go so far as to charge relatives for imprisonment costs.

This all being a possible even greater deterrent. However, I also realize many of these people wouldn't give a hoot about their mums, dads, spouses, grown children, having to pay.

This type of thing may work for younger, non-violent criminals. More importantly, it may help/make/force these negleckful parents, who let their kids run rampant, vandalising, fighting, stealing, etc., to have more reason to keep the kids disciplined.

I'm just trying to think a bit outside the box here. Also trying to think of ways to stifle all those little hoodlum dregs of society!

Brian

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I agree that it just does not seem right that a person working from an open prison goes "home" at the end of the day to live free of charge without having to pay for board and lodgings.

There is also the scenario were a convicted criminal may get a suspended or deferred prison sentence... in thoery they have recieved a prison sentence..would anyone say they should not get the minimum wage while still working?
This topic is not as clear cut as to simply say a percentage of wages earned should be taken... seems it would take a great deal of looking into the legal aspects, and were any deductions made, to whom or were the money taken would go.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Strange! I always thought that a suspended sentence meant they were hanged. :confused: :p

Sorry! I’ll go an kneel on some dried peas in a corner and mutter to myself, “Don’t be facetious.”

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

To have milk and sugar to put on their gruel.:D

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Of course Willow.... I was meaning to say that to bring in any new laws to make deductions from wages of offenders would I expect be a legal minefield...if the law says prisoners can "out work" in the private sector then they have the same rights as any other employee whether we like it or not.

Maybe a way round this would be to for the judge to impose a "fine" at the same time as a custodial sentance is given, such a fine could be enforced if the prisoner earns a certian amount of money when working outside prison... but then again I suppose this would deter some prisoners from taking up outside employment.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Prisons could have work indoors.

A laundry to launder hospital linens perhaps?

Sorting recyclable stuff from the throw away stuff?

A market garden to grow the prison’s own vegetables maybe?

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Why should the relatives pay? Suddenly, we're choosing to punish the innoncent?

I know what my response would be - if society wants to lock them up, then society must pay for it. I'll pay my share, as part of my taxes, but that's an end to it. To ensure an equitable justice system, society needs to balance the cost of incarceration versus the cost of not imprisoning so many folks. Frankly, if it did not cost the public to run prisons, it could lead to any number of interesting abuses. For instance, under your proposal, wouldn't relatives be financially far better off helping a criminal hide out or escape?

Frankly, running a justice system, including prisons, is part of the cost of running a civilized society. If we don't pay the costs of maintaining civilization, we have no right to expect it to continue for long. From my point of view, the benefits far outweigh the costs I pay.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Makes sense jambutty... the old sewing mailbags type of work is still done in some prisons.. and some work along the lines of what you propose is done.
It may sound strange but in most prisons the "unemployment rate" if you can call it that, is up in the 80% 's.... having a "job" on the inside of prison is actually highly valued by most prisoners... having work cleaning/cooking or in the workshop gets a prisoner out of the cells and maybe £2-£4 a week on top of an allowance of around £6 per week that all prisoners get.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

We really need to consider all of the ramifications of prisoners "in the community" making less.

One major reason that prisoners get the minimum wage when working in the community is so that the availability of prisoner labor does not unfairly advantage one business versus another. If you have a business far from a prison and my competing business can use prison labor to produce goods far more cheaply than you, I've got a huge competitive advantage.

Also, if an employer can pay less than the minimum wage to prisoners, why would he hire a law-abiding person and pay them minimum wage? That "guy next to him" will not even get the job if prisoner labor can do the work more cheaply. Requiring the employer to pay the minimum wage to prisoners actually helps protect the living of that law-abiding person! How would you feel if you lost your living only because your employer can pay the prisoner less than what the law requires he pay to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 388947) He can save all his earnings whilst the co-worker may be struggling to make ends meet. Maybe that co-worker would get to thinking twice about whether crime pays or not. I still think they should be deducted for their keep and the money put into some victim compensation fund - maybe less for the taxpayer to have to contribute to then.

I'm sure that most of us have given thought over the years as to whether crime pays. Generally, crime does pay, sorry to say. However, when most of us analyze the possible benefits of a life in crime and compare them with the risk of prison, we don't choose crime.

If you deduct the cost of a prisoner's keep, then you will take all they earn - and more. This leaves them with no reason to work. As engaging in regular, productive work is generally considered to be one of the major steps to preventing recidivism, there is a real need to leave the incentive to work in place. For those who are working in the community, perhaps some reasonable percentage could be deducted.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I agree with your disagreement there. People cannot be held responsible for what other members of their families do.

That was in reply to

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Interesting, rindy, but the law in civlized countries does not allow the witholding of food.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Good point, Mancie. One of those links I posted clearly indicates that employment opportunities on the inside are not sufficient to provide work for all those who want it.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Uncle Joe (Stalin) had the best solution , a short stay in a gulag and they soon mended their ways

:D :D :D

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

steeljack, that was tasteless! Not even close to being funny.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

wasn't supposed to be ............ Prison is supposed to be punishment for crimes against society .

:confused: :confused:

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Again, you have been tasteless. Stalin's deathcamps were crimes against humanity, not just society. Further, they killed millions, many of them innocent.

If that is what you want prisons to be, then shame on you. Why not praise other genocidal jerks while you are at it?

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

To quote Billcat
Also, if an employer can pay less than the minimum wage to prisoners, why would he hire a law-abiding person and pay them minimum wage? That "guy next to him" will not even get the job if prisoner labor can do the work more cheaply. Requiring the employer to pay the minimum wage to prisoners actually helps protect the living of that law-abiding person! How would you feel if you lost your living only because your employer can pay the prisoner less than what the law requires he pay to you?

I agree with that but do feel that the prisoners shouldn't be allowed to keep all the money they earn and as for the prisoners then refusing to work, they shouldn't have a choice they're in prison!

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

My point Billcat, is that the parents of many of these trouble-makers aren't innocent. Let a judge decide if the parents are somewhat culpable in how they allowed their kids to create mayheim! How many Accywebbers have been directly affected by many of these rebellious chavs?

I'd bet they'd like to see something much more serious being done then is being done now. These scumbags mostly have homes they eventually crawl back to. Anyhow, I was just thinking out loud.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Let's get factual! Under both American and British law, they are innocent - until proven guilty under law. By a jury trial, not a judge! BTW, I'd like to know just what crime you believe the parents to be guilty of. Last time I checked, most forms of poor parenting were not chargeable offenses. Let's charge the perpetrator, and not try to pine the blame on someone else (society, the school, social services, the parents, Officer Krupke, etc.).

Criminal liability, under both the US and UK justice systems, is based on mens rea - criminal intent. If intent is not proven (and it is a complex subject) then, generally speaking, a crime was not committed.

Also, most prisoners are over 18 and legally adults. In those cases, it would be very hard to make a case against the parents and require them to pay for the incarceration.

In any case, this is getting to be a serious thread wander, as it does not deal with the topic of wages earned by prisoners. Suggest that, if you wish to discuss further, you set up a new topic.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Just one small point Billcat, in the UK a magistrate (it is usually 3 people where a majority decision rules) can try a case and does have the authority to impose a jail sentence although there is a time limit.

There is also the bit about being an accessory before, during or after the act. What about handling stolen goods?

The police could target parents and spouses as accessories to a crime. Don’t tell me that the wife or girl friend hasn’t a clue about where that £1,000 ring came from or that brand new plasma TV that she watches Corrie on? The same applies to a parent of a kid on the dole. Just where did that iPod come from or that new jazzy mobile phone. If a parent believes the usual, “my mate give it me or I found it” then they must be plain stupid.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Lets not fall out about this subject, if a prisoner works outside the prison with a view to early release and gets the minimum wage, surely the money that they earn is offsetting any resetlement money a long termer would get of the state anyway, so the system of self financeing their release is saving money that they would be able to claim anyway. I have read all these posts and come to the conclusion that whatever the powers that be do will not please us all.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

How would that make the parent an accessory? Where is the evidence? Truth is, it's very difficult for a prosecutor to prove that someone had a clue. Unless you've had a major change in the laws of the UK, being stupid or clueless is not a chargeable offense. Proving that some is an accessory generally requires the prosecutor to prove that they had actual knowledge of a crime. Good luck with that one!

jambutty, it is morally wrong to imply guilt by association without evidence.

Notice that you mentioned magistrate's courts. It is my understanidng from what I read that they are limited to sentences of less than a year (for multiple offenses) or six months (for a single offense). Serious crimes are still eligible for jury trial. Also, even judges are unlikely to convict unless the evidence of someone being an accessory (or receiving good they know to have been stolen) is quite clear. In case of a conviction, they would presumably be sent to prison. As far as I am aware, the law does not currently allow a sentence that would force them to pay for another's incarceration.

A helpful link to info on jury trial and magistrates in the UK:
http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-ri...ue/venue.shtml

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

My attempt at being humerous also hid what I was trying to say in reply to why should prisoners work.

I'm not saying basic provisions shouldn't be provided, but like the rest of the world outside of the prison wall, luxuries should be earned by working for them, like we all have too.

If prisoners wanted tobacco/phone cards/magazines/stationary etc. they'd work for them if they had too.

(I left off the above list things like drugs/alcohol/illegal mobiles/pornography, which are also readily available for purchase in most UK jails.)

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

And, provided that all prisoners with reasonable behavior in lock-up can be provided with the opportunity to work, I'd agree with you. This does not seem to be the case. Based on the links I posted, jobs seem to be pretty scarce on the inside.

Also, I believe that any prisoner with reasonable behavior should be allowed to pursue further education. It's somewhat of a civilizing influence, and may help them to find employments at the end of their term. Not sure if I'd agree that all magazines should fall into the luxury category.

They've had an interesting program in one of our prisons. The prisoners work to train therapy dogs. It's considered a very high privilege among the inmates to be allowed into the program. Takes some seriously good behavior to get in and stay in, and the work is useful. As many of these inmates have real socialization issues, the work with the dogs sometimes has a therapeutic effect as well.

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Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

did'nt they make a documentary series about this?

if it's the one i'm thinking of then i have to admit it did seem to work really well for all parties (ie. prisoner, dog and owners)


sorry bit of a thread wander i know!

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I think Myra Hindley took two degrees and a Phd. whilst in prison.

Was that fair, when people who have never broken the law, or tortured and killed children, can't afford to go into higher education?

Personally I think not.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Yes in the film the instigator of the idea was a nun, who woked for the prison service in the USA, and she ran into all the funding dificulties and 'easy time' attiudes that are being discussed in this thread, the dog's were for all different types of disabilities.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

A lot of the criminals are sadly lacking in education. If anything the average criminal is educationally disadvantaged. While it is not the only thing that leads to crime, one contributing factor is that folks with a poor education are unlikely to get decent-paying jobs. If the goal is to precent recidivism, education is a good idea. Getting these prisioners doing anything constructive is an important step towards getting them out of the prison system permanently when they are released.

I'm not convinced that your repeated comparisons of the economic diferrences between ordinary folks and crminals holds water, willow. The circumstances are not strictly comparable. If you or I want further education, we can get it pretty cheaply and, at the same time, hold down a job that will furnish the funds to pay for it. My employer will also pay for some continued education, which is not an uncommon benefit here in the USA. Most inmates have jobs that pay very little, or no job at all. Please read the info on the link I posted previously.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

I remember seeing something about it on television. It was also interesting to see the prisioners begin to behave more maturely, especially when the time came for the dogs to leave the prision and begin their work.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Further education in this country is becoming a thing that only the well off will soon be able to afford.

As for the differences between 'ordinary' people and prisoners, there aren't any, except prisoners have broken the laws of the land, and are being punished for it.

At present 6/12 criminals reoffend within the year in the UK, even with a second attempt at getting an education in prison, which was their choice if they wasted the twelve years of State education they would have got.

Poverty is not an excuse to embark on a life of crime. It is an insult to the millions of poor people who don't resort to it, and try to live an honest life.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

There is no excuse for a life of crime but you would have to be living in cuckoo land to belive it is not THE major factor in crimes like muggings, robbery with violence, stealing cars, and most street crimes.. who says it is an excuse? no excuse but a fact. how many of the boys educated at Eton resort to these type of crimes?.. not many.. they are more into massive fraud.. which carry lighter sentences when convicted. This sort of "no excuse" label has been going on since the Victorian times.. of course there is no excuse.. but you can't tell me that poverty does not increase crime.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Poverty isn't a choice, but deciding to smoke your first spliff, or your first hit of crystal meths, or shooting up heoin is, and is a major contributor to all crime in this country.

Rich or poor, we all make choices in life, and to use poverty as an excuse for crime is an insult to the millions of people legally living within their meagre means.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Rich or poor we all make choices?... the choices the rich have are far removed from the choices of the less well off.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Pathetic, it's like saying poor people are predestined for a life of crime.

They aren't. Lots of people who start out with very little advantages live honest lives, and chose not to commit crime.

http://www.revision-notes.co.uk/revision/284.html

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

According to this article in the Washington Post, ugly people are more likey to commit crime and end up in prison.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...602039_pf.html

I'll start baking you a cake with a file in it now.:D

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

yep.. it's the same as saying the kids of millionaires have a predestined life.. only thing is they get what they want .. no problem...

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Jesus.. if ugly bods spend more time in prison then I can only conclude you got away with it.. and well done

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Some do, some don't.

They have to make choices like anyone else.

I know people from very disadvantaged backgrounds who have fought hard for a better life, and I know others who were fed with a silver spoon whose life are very empty and sad.

I firmly believe that from a very early age we all make choices.

Do we doss around at school, or do we work hard?

That applies to young people of every background, though having a supportive family behind you helps, but that is applicable to rich, poor, or anywhere in the middle too.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

The really clever ones never get caught.:rolleyes:

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Well said.. anyone with the looks of Bill Sikes combined with the brains of Quentin Crisp has my admiration.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

seems to me there is a lot to be said about research into the 'criminal ' gene

http://www.cesagen.lancs.ac.uk/resea...minalgenes.htm

some folks are simply born bad , so how do we treat them ? or do we excuse their behaviour if they are just bad seeds

:confused: :confused:

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Same family, same background.

One plays the game, one breaks the rules and ends up inside.

Choices.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

It's Sykes, Bill Sykes.

I'd have thought you'd have known that, what with his girlfriend being called Mancie....oops, mean Nancy.:D

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Of young men released from prison in 2002, 78.4% were reconvicted within two years.


http://www.crimeinfo.org.uk/topicofthemonth/index.jsp



Well the softly, softly approach doesn't appear to be working terribly well.

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Re: Minimum wage in Prison?!
 

Very true but there are also those who do it because of a warped sense of power and prestige it gives them in front of there peers. It makes them in their own eyes "hard men" of the streets.