Compulsory Language Lessons
 

Modern foreign language lessons are to be compulsory for the first time in England's primary schools.
Education Secretary Alan Johnson backs the recommendation of a review by Lord Dearing, that all children should learn a language from the age of seven.

Wouldn't it be better if we said it was compulsory to speak English when they start school in the first place. We spend money on teaching them to speak English and now they want to spend money teaching them not to :confused: :confused:

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Many primary schools have introduced a foreign language anyway, mine have done basic francais from year 4. Altho can see what you mean that many youngsters do struggle with our own language format, that now text speak has ruined.

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While in principle, it may seem like a good idea...wouldn't it be better to ensure that pupils are numerate and literate? It seems that many children leave school with only the very basics...and to be honest you have to have a good grasp of English to learn a foreign language...unless of course they are only going to do conversational stuff.

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Absolutely agree Willow .. took the words out of my mouth .. children learn their own language by parroting their parents and if the schools can do this with a foreign language when the brain is young and more open to 'washing' then so be it. Always believed it should be conversation first, grammar and spelling later.

Which language would they chose though ? New suggestions are turning to Mandarin 'cause of the business connections with China; French out now I think, Spanish high on the list as spoken in more countries after English.

Don't think it is a matter of us being useless at foreign languages, just that English reasonably world wide and made us lazy.

What I can't understand is that the pupils in secondary school, who are not moving up to do a G.C.S.E. in a language, would be offered a course focused on more conversational language rather than the Grammar ... yes, please .. wish they had done this when I was at school.

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i totally agree with you dave, nice one, karma on its way

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My daughter has had French lessons every week an since she was seven. As there was Arabic and Mandrin a possibility I have to agree that English should come first. Why french beats me , why not Spanish, Portugese Russian etc. Yet I also see in this the need for it as the world is expanding an mixing like never before so it would be inevitable.

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You and Katex have explained quite clearly ONE of my reasons why it is a daft idea. Choose the language they should learn bearing in mind that there won't be enough teachers to go round for one language so the cirriculum won't be the same nationally.

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So then the govenment needs to recruit more teachers. We do need to learn to stay upwith the rest of the world or even get ahead. There is no reason why kids cant be made to learn another language but it has to be done properly.

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I think its a good idea providing all the other curriculum needs are met, I'd rather it be French or Spanish though.

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government and properly in the same statement :eek: :D :D :D

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Sorry Dave a bit of a PETER PAN moment there. :eek:

Off to slap myself. :o

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We don't know yet lancsdave how these lessons will be implemented and if to the detriment of other subjects ... let's give it a chance.

Throughout my own, daughter's, son's (big gap in age) grandaughter's education have never noticed any neglect whatsover in the teaching of our own language .. English Grammar/Literature abounds. For those children who have not got the natural talent of being a spelling/grammar guru, they will surely pick up verbally another language as they have with the spoken language of our mother country, and can do them no harm in life. For those that are good at these subjects, why should they be penalized for the ones that aren't so good ?

Sorry, cannot agree with your negative and cynical views.

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I go to Malta, frequently, and the Maltese children all speak English which is their official 2nd language. Some speak it extremely well because they are taught from infancy by their parents, others not so well but they learn it at school from the start so they have a basic knowledge. I've noticed, in recent years, they are beginning to be fluent in German too. It's important in a country that's, largely, dependant on the tourist trade.

Young children soak up information like sponges and primary school age is the right time to start.

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i would have thought that in our current social and political climate urdu would have been the first choice of politicians


but i do agree that it is easier to learn the younger you start.

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nothing against it,think its great to have a 2nd language, just question where these teachers of this will come from? from what people tell me teachers are a bit thin on the ground as it is?

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Actually, when you learn the vocabulary and grammar of another language, it may result in a greater interest in one's own language. If I had a child at home, exposusing them to a foreign language at a young age would be part of the plan.

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does anyone know what this language will be?
I think 7 is a bit young, some have only just started to read proper at that age, some cant!! it should be about 10+

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[QUOTE=Billcat;397101]Actually, when you learn the vocabulary and grammar of another language, it may result in a greater interest in one's own language. QUOTE]

Possibly Billcat, just learning the grammar first is what I question... remember Je suis, Tu as, il est, Nous sommes, Vous etes, ils sont (proberbly incorrect) .. how boring. :rolleyes: Learning the grammar first was the pits .. could never incorporate it into a conversation, and as you get older your mind is not as flexible to a different structure either as per the popular one of 'La plume de ma tant' being, of course, My Aunt's Pen .. think more about it as an adult because we become more conditioned this way, whereas when younger, more flexible.

Know you agree though about being younger.

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You learned to speak English when you were little more than a baby. You learned by listening to other people and copying what they said to you. Did you know what a verb was when you were 3? Could you spell caterpillar when you told your mum you'd found one, when you were 4? No, of course not, but you could speak and understand the English language.

The way to teach children another language is first to teach them to speak it. The grammar and spelling can come later, just like your English did when you went to school.

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While I was 11 when I started taking French, and we were instructed in the way you suggest, it was not a good method for all kids. They were using the ALM (Audio-Lingual method), where only the spoken word is used exclusively for an extended period of time. I had no idea what was being said or where we were headed until the written text of the French was finally shown to me. Once I was able to connect the sounds with the text, I improved rapidly. Certainly a strong emphasis on the spoken language is important, but I think that a teaching method that takes a more balanced approach is better suited to kids with a variety of learning styles.

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My neice aged ten is being taught French and Mandarin at Westholme.

Agree with others, English should be taught to a higher standard before starting on other languages.

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Yes, I can understand that, at age 11. I am thinking of the 7 year olds, in fact I'd start them younger than that, as soon as they start school. It needn't be intensive but if a small child can speak and understand simple language it becomes second nature. I had friends where the husband was English and the wife was Dutch. He spoke English to their daughters, she spoke Dutch. The children's English was the better - they heard it all day at school etc. - but they could both converse in simple Dutch.

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we did french from 11-15 yrs, E.R. verbs je touche tu touche etc etc, was total crap and not a bit interesting, cos felt it had very little value in speaking everyday french. so hardly anyone was interested in learning it, you could opt out after 3rd year and all the class did. that says it all. if they had made it more interesting! who knows?

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There's a big difference in learning to speak a another language and being made to go into the more difficult part of learning the grammer of that language.. when my kid was 4 he was coming home from nursery talking bits of french.. I loved it.. having half an idea of another language can only be for the good.

And it's plain to see from the spelling here that grammer comes second!

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Don't find this one of your most wisest remarks Garinda .. I stand by my post that there are adequate lessons in English Grammar and Literature in the U.K. in school's curricula, but lots of students come to a standstill with this and cannot move on any further .. why should you anyway if you wish to do a physical job ? Surfeit to requirements for a brickie, isn't it ?

Might as well say .. learn more about History first.

Spoke to my colleague today, who runs the French office of our company and speaks four languages .. amazing. He is Lebonese, so his first language is Arabic, which went hand in hand with French when he was very young, as they spoke the latter at school, and was fluent in two languages from birth onwards.

Studied Spanish when at University in Spain, only 40 mins per week but, of course, was living there, so good opportunity to 'converse' and picked the language up within 6 months. Did some sort of footbally stuff with Real Madrid .. don't suppose mattered how you spelt "**** off Ref." in Spanish, only to get the message across .. :D Married an English lady and moved over here and now fluent in English just from conversing.

Commented that the problem in the U.K. was that most schools taught a foreign language in class in English and not conversational .. just grammar so held them back. From what I heard the powers that be are looking into the way we teach languages in schools and feel grammar/spelling first will be their first line of attack.

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I can only go by own experience, and hopefully it's better now, but I doubt it. My own early schooling was very liberal, and old fashioned things like grammar and punctuation weren't taught that thoroughly. I never really caught up with others at my school who'd had a more formal foundation in English. That's all I meant, that English should be taught well before embarking on other languages, which do of course also benefit in the understanding of English as well.

As for my self, I speak conversational French. Well, enough to order a meal, get drunk, and seduce someone.:D

Oh, and I know enough Japanese to make someone a shirt and talk about the weather...as long as it's sunny. I never learnt the Japanese for it's raining.:D

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[QUOTE=garinda;398137]
As for my self, I speak conversational French. Well, enough to order a meal, get drunk, and seduce someone.:D
/QUOTE]

Like to see a guy get his priorities right ... once asked my colleague in which language he made love to his wife ? Somebody said a groan was the same in any language ... :D :D

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is it french that they are wanting to learn? or something else?

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It has to be conversation first or it won't work. We don't say, to a 2 year old, "What is the past tense of To See?". We say, "I saw." The child learns without thinking about it. It learns to communicate.

When I'm in Malta I am always impressed by the Maltese children who, at a very early age, can speak English though their native language is Maltese. They learn from their parents and friends and at school. They learn to speak English and it's not until much later that they learn the spelling and grammar, by which time the grammar is second nature anyway.

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MY SON DID WELL AT SCHOOL IN FRENCH HE GOT AN A, SORRY I WAS NOT TAUGHT ANY WHEN I WENT TWO SCHOOL
:thanka:

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i learned english at school when i was younger and came handy, pass the subject as i had a brilliant english teacher, people says that i speak good english because my mother is english but its not true, never learned a word from her because i wasnt interested when she tried to, it was after that i felt stupid for not learning the language so im gonna make sure my son and the one on its way speak perfect spanish

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Mandarin is the way forward. Teach that instead of french, spanish, urdu, german...

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handy going to the chinese i suppose:rolleyes:

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Don't they speak English then ? :D

Mandarin has been touted as the language to learn for at least 10 years and still hasn't taken off. Bit like the paperless office was going to be the big thing about 20 years, you would think that would be even nearer now with the advent of e-mail etc, yet you wouldn't believe how many offices have staff who print off all their emails and file them :D

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I have a chinese friend over the internet who speaks perfect english. The reason I suggest mandarin is the suggestion that China is rumoured to be the greatest economic power in the world at some point. Or so I have been told!