Banning smacking in public places
 

Heard on the radio this morning that there are plans to ban the smacking of your children in public places.I think that this is a really stupid idea.It seems that they always have to be banning something at the moment.There isn't much more they can do to the smokers now so what next? Ban smacking,ban eating,ban drinking,ban breathing! Not only is it an example of a nanny state but how on earth are they going to enforce this ban?It won't deter the real child abusers because they don't do it in public anyway,preferring to do it behind closed doors where they can really let rip.All it means is shame and punishment(though I don't think they said on the radio what the proposed punishment would be)for the millions of decent and loving parents out there who are just trying to bring up well mannered,well behaved children.One of these parents might have given their child a smacked bottom for misbehaving whilst out shopping but this sort of smack is far removed from systematic,prolonged child abuse.I don't think bans such as this one do any good,they punish the one off smackers while the real offenders carry on.I'd be interested to hear what others think on the matter.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Someone please convince me that we are not dashing headlong into a ‘Big Brother’ scenario where the powers that be govern every single second of our lives.

If you are going to punish a child for misbehaviour it has to be done there and then.

If that means a sharp slap across the back of the legs to bring an unruly child into line then so be it.

But to punish the kid later at home is unlikely to have any effect other than instil resentment in the child because it won’t really relate the slap to something that it did several hours ago.

Years ago when my eldest daughter was about nine years old we were stood at a bus stop in Blackburn and she was really misbehaving in spite of being told not to. Calmly I grabbed her by the hand sat down on the curb, pulled her across my knee and gave her a sharp slap across the legs.

She NEVER misbehaved in public again whilst with me. I don’t think that it was the slap that did it but the embarrassment of being punished in public that did the trick.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I'd like to smack quite a few adults across the back of the legs.:D

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

If you will not be able to smack a child in public there will be a tendency to wait until you get back home before dishing out the punishment.

Remember the ‘good old days’ of “wait till your father gets home” after mum’s patience expired. Or “wait while I get you home”. Banning smacking in public will herald the return of those days and by then the parent could well be angry, tired and just wanting a cup of tea and feet up for half an hour so the kid gets it hard and with anger.

If it comes to the last resort of a sharp slap the punishment should be meted out in a cool, calm and deliberate manner and without anger.

I’m off to watch United. Bye!

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

If a child gets smacked in public then that child is also likely to get smacked at home anyway regardless.

I'd love some kids to be able to follow their parents when they are on a night out and administer the same punishment :rolleyes:

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

and they wonder why today's kids are getting out of hand!!:(

they can do what they want, when they want and the bloody law wont do naff all, only prosecute the parents 'if' they slap em:mad:
which if they did in the first place the kids wont be little ****s!!!!!

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I agree panther......sometimes a little smack beats all the reasoning in the world.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I actually thought it was illegal to smack kids fullstop anyway now.
I have never smacked jack (i have 'tapped' him once and felt so horrible afterwards, it effected me more than him) and tell my family that if they smack him i will report them to them police-and i will.
My mum was one of these that was too embarrassed to smack us in public so when we got a hiding when we got home we wondered what the hell it was for.
I dont agree with smacking.
Please dont comment on this post.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Well if you are into that and you are ever in Kingston, drive up Princess St, turn rt. onto Victoria, and my house is on the corner of Victoria and North Bartlett St.:eek:

But seriously folks: I remember my mom giving me one hell of a licking when I threw a tantrum at a toy store window because she would not buy me a bike ... and this at a time when it was a struggle to put food on the table! A woman told her that she should not do that, and my mom, god bless her, told the interfering b**ch, that if she didn't shut her gob she would get a good smacking too. If the punishment doesn't come under the heading of "cruel and unusual punishment" there is nothing wrong with it. I didn't suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. I didn't grow up hating my mum. Even as a child (and in a lot of ways I still am one) I did not hate my mum for what she did. I knew I deserved what I got.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

exactly eric!!

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

as long as the punishment is for the right reason .my 2 children had the ocasional smack on the back of the legs they have grown up two be the most wonderfull children with respect for all.they say you should never shout or smack a child thats why all over the country kids are running a mock.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Only the naturally vicious or the terminally stupid would ever want to hurt their child but there are times when a smacked bottom is the best answer. My children were smacked when all else failed, which didn't happen often, and they are now responsible adults, reasonably sane and quite nice people.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

theres smacking and theres thumping which are totally different. that i would never condone!!

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Legalise pot...but criminalise parents who want to discipline their children....that'd be right!

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Can you imagine the abuse the shop assistants would get if they intervened, I dont think there's anything wrong with a slap on the legs to bring them in line. Years ago when I worked in the chemist on the bus station a women belted her 5 yr old daughter round the head, real hard, that knocked me sick and in my opinion was abuse. I think its a fine line, though the kids these days do need discipline no doubt about that.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

My sons got smacked when they oversteped the boundries,I would not stand tantrums,,,,,but they also got love and cuddles when they deserved it too,,, they understood disiplin and grew up respecting other people.After the age of 5 they never neaded a smack,,They all grew up good honest lads that i am proud of...,not like some of todays yobos that have no respect for man nor beast

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

maybe they are on the stuff margaret, cuz they are certainly talking ****!!

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I remember many years ago being taken on holiday by my Grandparents.....I saw an ice cream van and stepped out into the road and almost got knocked down.....my gran grabbed hold of me and gave my legs a sharp slap. I never ran out into the road again...lesson learned.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

It's a hard thing to have to smack a child, but twice as hard if you have to do it a second time.

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Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Interesting how many people relate the lack of smacking to a lack of discipline. I know somebody who had a physically abused childhood, yet that persons policy of non-smacking as a parent themselves has not spawned a monster.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Some do-its called child abuse.

Also some parents smack children to get rid of their own pent up anger.

Dave-your completely right in what you say- some people think that no smacking means no discipline-Wrong.Jack is disciplined just in a non physical way.I count to 3-when i say '1' he turns round and faces me,when i say '2' he knows his doing wrong and should stop what his doing,so far got to '3' a couple of times-each time i have either moved him from where his standing away from what his doing or taken the object his not meant to be touching off him.Still discipline just not hurting him physically.he still learns but doesnt get hurt in the process.
Once he tests of the boundaries of this method i expect he will be of an age to go on the 'time-out step'.I dont like calling it the 'naughty step' :(

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

It could be argued that a tap could also be a long way from a full blown smack. I'm not trying to come across as saying that parents who smack are wrong, each to their own. I'm just suprised to see so many who say the lack of smacking relates to the lack of discipline we have in society today. I think a lot of people who we see as bad in society probably come from homes where physical punishment is the norm. They then take that in to the outside world.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

And child abuse is a million miles away from a smack. Physical harm is categorically wrong, but no amount of rules about not smacking is going to stop child abusers who do what they do for totally different reasons - it's a bit like the difference between normal sex and rape.


I think perhaps it depends on how you define a smack Dave because to me a smack is not something that is designed to hurt a child but more of an attention grabber - sometimes a loud clap of the hands serves the same purpose, sometimes it's a tap on the back of the hand, sometimes a smack on the legs. None should cause real physical pain.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

True indeed ... and those who don't know the difference between correction and torture should be neutered. And I don't think that there is a "fine line" between the two. It's a bloody great wide line, painted in some bright color so that even the stupid can see it. Calling spanking torture is like saying that Attilla the Hun was a cavalryman, or that rape is love making that gets a little out of hand.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Some people believe smacking is child abuse.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

child abuse comes in all forms some kids are kicked out all day long so parents can spend all day in pub or going the bingo .they are also left on there own .some only see there parents when they stagger home from the pub and then get a belt for all the rong reasons .to me thats more about child abuse than a tap on the bum or legs that is controld by love.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

....i know some people like that davo69, and their kids dont give a damn what they say or do to people, i was given a slap when i was younger if I was out of line, i have turned out alright, i get respect from my kids and i give it back, my kids know when they have done wrong, not like some kids who just tell there own parents to F** off, now i wonder why they do that???:confused:
i tell my kids i love them everyday and they tell me, so i must be doing something right bringing them up!

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Child abuse takes many forms and needs no physical contact to enforce it......shouting at a child a couple of inches from it's face.....child abuse?.....effing and jeffing(for want of a better word) at a child.....child abuse?.....calling a child 'stupid'...ignorant etc......child abuse?
None of these forms of abuse will leave any mark that the eye can see....but be under no illusions, when used on a regular basis they will damage the psyche of a child more than a mild slap ever could.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

OOerr a debate hehehehehehe

I thought smacking in public was banned anway, but i think the crux of the debate is more about the definition because there are different ideas on what constitutes as smacking.

To my opinion a tap is use of the flat fingers only & the palm of the hand DOES not connect with the person chastised, if palm should touch area is a full hand so therfore a smack, try it on yourself you'll see he difference the finger tap does not hurt, mark or anything but enough because the power behind it is so much weaker than sweeping motion of full hand. A tap to me is last resort if it goes beyond that then it means 'i the grown up has lost control of the situation'. Any chastisement should ALWAYS come with an explanation reason for doing so & it should fit the crime done, so that :

a] the child does not understand what its done wrong
b] how to do that situation better next time to make it right not wrong
c] gives child chance to explain their actions, reasons & stop confusion & the consequences of their actions [my kids hate that regular word hehehe]
d] dont ever shout at the child so the child feels they are wrong/unworthy/bad/unloved etc, BUT make the behaviour desicion itself the wrong issue, you love them very much but dont love/like their behaviour - its to be a seperate issue, otherwise the child will just beleive they are just bad & exhibit bad behaviour in order to gain attention to make themselves feel better because they are living up to their 'label' of bad child.
e] encourage the good in the child, praise, praise, praise, certainly if child has learnt their lesson & did it right next time, it will encourage the positive use of discipline without need of drastic resource, also if discipline is negative - your kids wont thank you for it later & bitter resentment will brew.
f] violence in a household is never a good thing - violence breeds violence & fear.
g] not all children are the same, in development, mentality, progress, emotionally, react & think differently etc so to be adaptable in approach of discipline.
h] Be firm BUT be fair

The ^^ above is my discipline guide - without smack or tap, you could say its my discipline lecture or nagbag as my kids call it & tbh has worked better than smacking. Smacking doesn't really solve anything & gets used to it, take from one that knows - you can get tough from a smack to the point it doesnt have the desired effect in the long term but to only have them unlease it in undesirable actions either way, giving it or being on receiving end later on or have inpounded psychological long lasting effect.

There are other ways to discipline but unfortunately it requires time, patience & effort, some parents dont have it. As this thread has proven that ideas on discipline vary & you dont get a child rearing perfect handbook, we all live & we learn as to deal with things, what works for me maynot to another & vice versa, adults are no different than kids really;) :D

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

No comment Panther ;)

In all seriousness i hate that statement.Whats 'normal' then?and how do you know that you wouldn't have turned out more 'normal' or 'better' if you hadn't been smacked?
Obviously alot of people know smacking is wrong and it causes long term effects as there are no tests run that involve people smacking and people not smacking their children to prove any point (IYKWIM).

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Parents want the best for their children (usually).......and most parents know what works best for them...most times having used many methods to achieve the right response....and sometimes a smack is the last resort...when everything else has been tried.
My daughter leaves both of her children in my care. She knows that I will enforce discipline in the way that I did when she was a child......which MAY be a smack if the need arises......she has no problems with that because she knows that I do not vent my anger/frustration/tiredness etc. on the children.
And I know that reasoning with a 3 year old having a tantrum is almost impossible.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

i don't believe in smacking children in public or other wise. I have three kids the youngest of which is two years old. He would on occasion try the patience of a saint, but i would never dream of smacking him.Whenever me and my husband have an argument we don't give each other a clout, that would be classed as domestic violence, that should be no different when dealing with children.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

i believe in giving kids a crack when they need it, i know there is a fine line between smacking and child abuse but as panther said we turned out ok from having a smack, i think all this namby pamby dont smack children crap has lead the world to what it is now...yobs hanging round giving people abuse on street corners because they know they wont be punished for it....another loada testicles if you ask me

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

If Your Husband/partner Gave You A Crack After A Disagreement Would You Accept It And Think I Desrved That I Won't Do That Again. Violence Breeds Violence! ! !

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

yeah i would accept it cos i'd slap him back

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

WELL SAID THAT WOMAN, I COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

define violence....
Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing.
i do neither of those to my kids!!

do people seem to forget that years ago kids used to get the cane at school!!
they dont do that now.....and look at the state of it, kids going to school smoking, telling teachers to f off, and even lashing out at them, they have no respect, all because the govement say dont do this, do that, you cant do this :mad:
well this is a message to them...:moon:

kids get a way with many things, even if one came towards you and assulted you, you cant do anything or you would end up in court!!
people hiding indoors because they are afraid to come out because of kids being hooligans!
sorry but if any kid did that to me id fight back!

in the end its RESPECT!! and people dont have it these days:(

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Does smacking children teach them morals then ? :rolleyes: :)

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

depends what type of smacking, i just give a tap on the legs, but cant do it to me daughter shes to big, i do not thump, thats a NO NO.

if you beat them up then no you are not gonna get any!
and my kids are not scared of me, cuz they do give the odd chat back, but which kid doesnt.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

This is my observation of disciplining children, having brought up 2 families, and watching my offsprings bring theirs up, If you say to a child 'If you do not behave certain privileges will be withdrawn', and do not follow it through you have lost. Time and again I see my daughter's tell this to their kids, then lo and behold off out to play they go, if I say anything I am told my generation is out off the loop, so now I have badly behaved grandchildren. As for my opinion on school discipline, I well remember sadistic teachers who took great pleasure in using corporal punishment, so that is not the answer. Mean what you say when you discipline a child and smacking will be unneccessary.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I could not enforce discipline of that nature to any child certainly not to those that arn't my own - even with permission, i have no such right to do so no matter how i feel or whatever, its just a no no, thats the childs parents rightful job to do so, i just cant do it whereas my own is my responsiblility & rules applied. There are times where i need a backup to enforce discipline - hey im outnumbered & kids dont have f/t male role model - so therefore have called upon my dad & my bro for help with disciplinary matters certainly with the eldest, they have not smacked my children & have respected my way as a parent, also re-inforcing alternative methods even when child has gone out of hand - its tother way in here sometimes, & soon calms down whereas alternatively it could make the situ worse, as a responsible adult the main thing with discipline is maintaining the moral high ground.

Gee perfect im far from but do my utmost as a parent to do whats right by my children & people around us as best i can.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

you can't teach your kids respect by smacking them. The only thing it teaches them is that is that if you hit someone you can get what you want.That isn't respect.

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Isn't RESPECT an earned thing & 2 way street, u give respect u get it back ???? Violence of any kind does not earn respect it gains fear & control:confused:

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

In my opinion you are correct, respect has to be earned not imposed.

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Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

well said margaret

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good on ya girl, but i will never agree. It would be a very boring world if we all thought the same.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

your quite right it would be boring, thats why everyone is entitled to there own opinions :)

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

well said young man

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:rofl38: hehehehehehe looks like i've had a gender change in cyberspace:eek: :rofl38: not for the 1st time no worries & thanks flash lol:D

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Sorry mel, had to laugh at that one karma flash if it lets me.:)

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Hehehe so did i :rofl38:

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sorry about that. i realised i had made a mist.ake as soon as i had posted it but it was too latehttp://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...cons/icon7.gif

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I DO NOT advocate smacking as a means to gaining respect....and I do not use smacking as a first line of discipline.....but what I AM saying is that in SOME circumstances a smack is justified.
I am sure there are many ways of parenting.......and only parents know what is best for their own children. Firm, but fair is what it should be...and the child should be left under no illusions as to what behaviour is acceptable and what is not.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I don't understand how it helps to smack a toddler who is having a tantrum. As an ex childminder and mother of two I have had to deal with many a tantruming toddler and NEVER had to resort to violence.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

And I DO believe that the lack of parental discipline is responsible for SOME of the yobbish behaviour that we are seeing on our streets and in our classrooms today. That is MY opinion...you don't have to agree with it...you most certainly will have your own views.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Well done-karma on its way-personally i think smacking is lazy parenting because it takes more effort to keep calm and deal with a tantrum in a non-violent manner than it does to smack a child and force them to stop doing/playing with etc-but never thinking about the consequences.
But like many people have said on here were all entitled to our own views.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Well both my kids have been smacked...and to be honest once threatened my eldest when he was alot younger to pull his pants down and smack his bare bottom in middle of town if he didn't stop (whatever it was he was doing, lol) he didn't so I did...

So thats me reported then :rolleyes:

Saying that I now have two well adjusted teenagers who up to now (finngers crossed) haven't been in any kind of trouble... so I say it's because they were smacked when they were little?? I think it's part of it, but more due to the overall discipline and respect instilled from a young age.... and have to say more than anything RESPECT is definately the key

there thats my twopenneth worth :D

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I always felt when mine were younger (none get a smack anymore the oldest 2 are bigger than me ;)) that it was damned if you do and damned if you don't. The worst was the toddler tantrums in town where you'd hear remarks from the older people such as "I'd give 'em a clout if it were mine" then on the flip side if you did give them a smack you'd get disgusted looks from other people. It should be personal choice whether you use a smack as a form of punishment.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I grew up thinking spanking (slap to the hand or a smack on the butt) were very normal as was being beaten bare legged with a belt. We were slapped for the most minor of perceived infractions quite regularly while the beatings were more of a monthly thing for me and my big brother. Me and my siblings obeyed, especially in public, out of shear fear.

Because of this background, I was so very scared to have children when Cindy and I got married. I really didn't know what proper discipline was. Her family was more of threats not carried out or very loud screaming and yelling.

We waited 5 years and I believe have done quite well with disipline. Neither child ever beaten or hit out of anger. Both only spanked occassionally when small and then did the "no TV, computer, video game etc." thing.

I don't believe Cindy has ever spanked them but she does scream a bit. When they just yelled back I'd have to either tell Cindy to give em a smack or I would. That calmed everyone, except me, down!:cool:

And that's my 2 cents. I've got another 2 cents to be held till later!

Brian

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

My father only had to give us a certain look for us all to know that we had gone too far. And yes I did get my share of wallopings as a child....and they weren't the kind of gentle smack I would administer now(as a last resort)...so I guess I must fall into the category of an abused child.....but let me tell you, every one of them was for something that I KNEW I should not have been doing....did I fear my parents? only when I knew I had been up to no good, for I knew that the threats were NOT threats....the punishment would be meted out as promised. Did this lose my respect for my parents? No, on the contrary.....I knew them to be just and fair, and that we were ALL subjected to the same discipline.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I just love the advert (don't ask me what for) where the child has a tantrum in the Supermarket aisle lead down and banging on the floor, as they do.:rolleyes: The mother then proceeds to do exactly the same actions which jolts total surprise to the child; his tantrum stops immediately 'cause he now has to laugh at his mum.

Can work, ya' know .. children really don't like to throw a tantrum and wish to get out of the situation so if you can make them laugh during their drama this can bring them round. Another way is just to walk away non-plussed as if they don't belong to you, and once they realise not grabbing your attention, will soon calm down. Course have to listen to their screams from 3 aisles away, but worth it in the end.:D

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

Katex......I have done just that...lay down on the floor mimicking what the terror was doing....he continued to scream his head off, and someone thought I was having an epileptic fit! Was about to shove something in my mouth to stop me biting my tongue :)

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

You can guess who felt silly in that little scenario can't you?

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

That's the thing Margaret, my dad either gave us a look or that lower voice and we'd about pee our pants. The worst was most of the beatings were based on lies my mom told my dad. She had some type of personality disorder that caused her to feel more loved by our dad if we were being punished. So she either made stuff up or, more usually, radically stretched the truth.

Those days would occur by her storming into the bedroom stating wait till your father gets home and slam the door. We'd be sitting in the living room not even knowing who was gonna "get it!"

The worst was while getting beat, he'd say stuff like "why are you such rotten kids" and my mother would be yelling about how he loves her more than us.

By far, far, far away, the emotional abuse was so much worse than any spanking, beating, spanking received. The negative words, statements cut downs, put downs, belittlings, haunt us all to this day. It's bizarre how much damage can be done to an innocent child.

When folks say I use my faith in Jesus Christ as a crutch, I informed them that my faith has been more like an Intensive Care Unit! Although I don't know what tomorrow brings, I know, I could not/would not have survived to this day, the man that I am without Him!

Not a Sermon, just a Thought!

Brian

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

And another thing was, when we were getting our spankings my dad used to say 'This is going to hurt me a lot more that it hurts you'.......I never quite knew what he meant until I grew up and realised that it meant he had in some way, failed to get the point of the warning not to do something, over to us.

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Well, did only state 'can work' Margaret, not 100% foolproof .... :D

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

i didnt fear my parents, just did as i was told when i did get a wallop, its the only way i learned to behave, otherwise i would be a right little sod!
but there are some kids out there who are really abused, wether mentally or physically, by parents who dont give a damn, and do it for no reason at all

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

I actually used that in a different way. I hope it doesn't come across as psychotic or something! When Annie and Joshua were about 9 and 6, they "lied" about doing a certain chore. I had them come out into the garden and asked if they agreed they deserved a spanking. They both agreed.

I took off my belt and proceeded to smack my upper thigh (I was in shorts) a number of times. It left some pretty harsh red marks. They were quite confused. I explained that they had done something wrong that deserved discipline. Because I love them I was willing to take that punishment for them. When we do wrong, we cause various degrees of pain. Sometimes to ourselves and sometimes to others.

I believe it was a good lesson for them as they still remember it. Ya know, I guess it does sound fairly psychotic. It was just a way for me to avoid "beating" them but to show kinda what used to happen to us.

I'm really sorry guys but as you canm see I'm kinda in a wicked manic mood hence the extra babble. I'm off to cut a tree down with my teeth. That should dispell some of the extra energy!:Banane10: :Banane10: :Banane10: :Banane10: :Banane43: :Banane43:

Hugs and Kisses,

BEA

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

here here, sod the others

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Yeah here here.God that irritates me so much when you're in a shop and one of your kids has the dreaded tantrum,ooooh the comments from other people just beggar belief.The older people tend to be the worst.There's always some nosy old biddy nearby ready to wag the finger and pass some useless comment like 'oooh you've got your hands full' or 'I think she's tired love,you'd best go home','I think that one's hungry',or the best one I've heard to date which was 'oooh what a racket.We don't come to the supermarket to listen to that'.Honestly I feel like smacking them before the kids! You'd think they'd never had any of their own.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA it must run in our family lilly;)

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hahahahahaha I suppose it must do!

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That confirms what Margaret (I think) was saying earlier about child abuse. To have the comment from someone who was on the receiving end will hopefully help people to understand.



Even if they haven't they still manage to forget that they were children once too and probably drove their own parents up the wall.

Re: Banning smacking in public places
 

We were smacked as children if we were naughty, and therefore weren't very naughty very often.

I only remember being smacked twice. Once, when for some reason I was really cheeky to my beloved Nan, and the second time when I pushed my brother into the pool, fully dressed in his new school uniform.

Every time we were about to set off on holiday, my Dad used to ask us if we wanted a smack before we set off, or were we going to behave. We always behaved, or else never got caught.:D

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Not really smacking , but the worst case of sadistic adult abuse on young people I can remember is when a full class of 14/15 year old boys , innocent and guilty alike, were caned in front of a full school assembly ,
It happened during the first year (62/63 ) after the amalgamation of Gt.Harwood 'top council' with Rishton 'secondary modern' to create the Norden High School , I was in the 3rd year at the time and the incident happened to one of the 4th year classes,
Evidently the incident involved someone throwing an inkwell (one of those white porcelain things ) out of an upper window , which landed and splattered at the feet of the New Headmaster and a group of School inspectors.
This caused an uproar through the school , a full school assembly was called and every boy in the class recieved a caning from the Headmaster , with all the staff standing by and doing nothing , there must have been about 20 lads who got caned , innocent and guilty all included.
I dont remember anything ever being said about it later , and the school carried on as normal , I've allways wondered how all the other teachers felt about it in later years and if the had any regrets about just standing there and doing nothing .
Evidently the girls in the class were dealt with in private (out of site) by the senior female teacher .

I doubt it, but if any of the younger members of Accy web who attend Norden and you have teachers who were about at that time you may want to ask them about it . :D :D :D

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If you're going to talk about corporal punishment in schools.........!

I was a good child at primary school, in fact I was a Goody-goody but I was caned 3 times before I reached the age of 11. Once for talking in the cloakroom, once for still singing after the whistle was blown at playtime (I hadn't heard it - because I was singing) and once, at the age of 8, for forgetting to take a pencil to the Art class. Each time it was a stinging blow on the hand with a length of bamboo. It hurt - a lot. I am now firmly convinced that one of the qualifications for teaching in the 1940s and early 50s was a hatred of children, coupled with a predilection for sadism.

At Paddock House I can only remember one incident of mass punishment. My whole class was kept in detention for an hour, after school, by the French teacher. I can't remember why. Half of the girls travelled by bus from Burnley, Nelson and Colne and had to watch the special buses depart without them. God alone knows how they made their way home or what their parents felt like when their daughters didn't arrive home when they should have.

It was a totally different world, back then. I wouldn't go back to it but, and I have to say this, it was a safer and more respecting world than we have today. Discipline was harsh, far too harsh, but it was effective.

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Have posted on this subject months ago and any of you guys can look it up - but for those who have read it and know my views on this, I will reduce it to just the one line me old Dad said to me about children

"Give em what they need, not neccessarily what they want" !!

And he went on to bring 8 of us up alone after mum died when I was 1, and still carried on working too. - all 8 turned out fine, no real trouble with the law and have all gone on to lead fulfiled lives with the morals and respect learnt from a very wise man

and for those curious - yes he used "reasonable" corporal punishment when we damned well deserved it - and the greatest moral of his way was that we knew we deserved it !!

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right this thread is about banning smacking in public places...does that mean i cant fight in the street with my sister anymore?

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Yes, thats exactly what it means Flashy!:D

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such a shame :(

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:Banane26: WELL I CAN SAY IT DID ME NO HARM GETTING A CLOUT OFF MY MUM AND DAD I THINK BANNING SMACKING IN PUBLIC PLACES IN A BIT THE KIDS WILL BE RUNING ENGLAND AND THEN WE WILL BE IN A RIGHT MESS:Banane26:

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exactly :D

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most of us have been saying that all along mallard!!:rolleyes:

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And often, a lasting resentment! Well said, Accymel!

My mom often used the "Just wait till your father gets home" tactic. In retrospect, pretty unfair making Dad play the enforcer!

I'm against slapping, spanking, etc. There are better ways to discipline, if you care enough about your kids to take the trouble. And the line between spanking and child abuse is anything but well-defined. Frankly, I'd never want a child fearing me.

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From what I have seen, smacking a child who is having a tantrum is counterproductive. The response metely escalates the tantrum to a whole new level. The most effective response to a tantrum is to simply endure it stoically and allow it to blow out to sea. If the tantrum occurs in public, the response usually is to stop everything and go home. Once the child finds the tactic ineffective, the behavior eventually ceases. It takes a lot of patience and forebearance torespond in this way, but it works.

I've even used this tactic with a couple of screamers in higher management. fortunately, I don't encounter many of them, but if someone screams at me, I just tell them that we will discuss the matter later and calmly (at least, on the surface) walk away. I let them know that I am quite willing to discuss their requests (reasonably), but not in that way. I may put my job at risk, but not my self-respect. It's amazing how it alters the relationship. And - while I've been threatened with dismissal, I've never been sacked!

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Well said, Katex. Tantrums are just one of many attempts at manipulation. Once the child finds it totally ineffective or personally embarassing, the behavior ceases. But God help the parent who caves in! They will be hearing bigger and better tantrums forever.

One mother had a rather fun response. She would say, "Oh, poor Jimmy. You are so tired," and calmly and lovingly stop whatever was happening to put Jimmy down for a nap. She gave the same response to all tantrums, including the ones that changed to "But I don't wanna nap!" Needless to say, Jimmy's tantrum-throwing days were quickly and peacefully ended! :p

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[quote=Billcat;410605I'm against slapping, spanking, etc. There are better ways to discipline, if you care enough about your kids to take the trouble. And the line between spanking and child abuse is anything but well-defined. Frankly, I'd never want a child fearing me.[/quote]
.................................................. .................................................. ............
But thats just it . if you only smack your child when it realy exceeds the boundries,,,AND THE CHILD SHOULD KNOW WHAT THEY ARE,,,and you explain WHY they have been smacked.
And also praise them as well when they have been especialy kind or good .i think you will find that they are not afraid of you ,,and trust your judgement.....

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We were smacked very rarely, but when we were we deserved it, the threat of it was often enough. Certainly dont hold a grudge to my Mum or Dad for smacking us, if anything still feel they were too soft, used to get away with all sorts.

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well said grego

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I have a small atomiser spray of plain old tap water that I keep in my handbag.......the tiny terror thinks it is a magic spray....and that it makes naughty boys disappear until they can behave in public....so far i have never had to use it.....I only need to mention it and he stops what he is doing and behaves.

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That's funny Margaret .. think would need a Child Phychologist to analize any long term effects on this early childhood threat of punishment .. LOL.

All children are different, aren't they though ? personally, (as we all have done here), will indulge in proclaiming my own past punishments as follows:-

Daughter: Just her mouth that got her into trouble; not her actions, and a tap on the legs was always warranted, although, did stick her face up at me and state 'that didn't hurt' :mad: ... next ..

Son: Never laid a finger on him .. no need, he always saw sense and agreed that I was always correct in my criticism of any of his wayward actions... was I duped ?

Grandaughter: The threat of a smack at the end of a count from 10 >> 1 always worked, although got to 2 before she scuttered off to amend the offence.. :D

Guess I've been lucky as don't ever remember myself or my brother ever being smacked by my parents .. although I probably deserved it at times.

Hard work this parenting, but love it just the same.

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We also have a 'Promise'....NO - NOT THAT KIND!
I will put him on my knee before we go out and ask him what the promise is......
He tells me 'I promise - NO trantrums'...and if he starts to show signs of kicking off, I ask him to tell me what the promise is...just diversionary tactics...as is the magic spray.

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They sound like good ideas Margaret, fortunately Ellie's never thrown a tantrum in public and wasn't really one for them anyway, her things back chat, always has to have the last word!

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It is purely finding out what works for you. I don't really remember my daughter having many tantrums......but then it IS a long time since she was that age (sorry Nicola).
As I have said in previous posts....smacking is an absolute last resort.....but it is one that I will use if I HAVE to......I believe that if his mother trusts me to make a decision over discipline, then I should have the right to do this.....and I do not see a smack as violence.....a punch is violent, a thump is violent, shouting and screaming to me is a form of violence and the marks may not show, but believe me that kind of abuse is far more damaging than a smack.