Honour Killing.
 

I have just watched the BBC's video footage of Banaz Mahmod relating of an earlier attempt by her father to kill her,due to her falling in love with an 'unsuitable man'.
Sadly this young girl was later killed in what is described as as honour killing.
Someone please explain where lies the honour in killing your own daughter to save face in the community(once again that misused phrase).
Those involved should burn in hell!
BBC News Player - 'Honour killing' phone footage

Re: Honour Killing.
 

There is no honour in killing your daughter, killing 'someone else', to protect your daughter if it was needed, yes I could see honour in that, but under no circumstances killing your own child! :(

Re: Honour Killing.
 

less i agree with you one hundred %

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Some of these people believ so deeply in these customs they think its wrong to be punished. It will be hard to change their minds and even though they live here insuposed safty and represive regimes the women and girls do not benifit. They like the freedoms the UK gives but in their eyes its not for women. Sometimes think that they would be more at home with Gengis Khan and his hordes. The poor women died because of what some believe is the fear in the force of being un politically correct. There will be an inquiry but it will come to nought and some time in the future it will happen again. If a minority in these groups want the old ways then give them a ticket back to a place that accepts it or a least turns a blind eye. Chances are they wont go because they ie the men have a better life here.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Yes,dual standards prevail!

Re: Honour Killing.
 

These people came to this country seeking asylum......their lives were in danger from Saddam Hussein...how could they do this to one of their own daughters.....it beggars belief. They should be sent back to Iraq to serve their sentence there.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

There is no honour in this barbarism. The sooner people living in this country realise this, the better. The law should come down heavily on these people, to act as an example.

I was reading this in the news the other day. In some parts of the Islamic world, women are being killed because a career in journalism isn't deemed honourable.

Honor Killings Stalk Women in Journalism

Re: Honour Killing.
 

For a start off they should not be called 'Honour' killings...they are just barbaric murders....nothing less.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Re: Honour Killing.
 

It's very hard for people in the West with our society's traditional norms and values to understand the seemingly barbaric act of an 'honour killing'.
I for one don't understand the concept of honour killing, and it seems extremely barbaric to me. However we must recognise that seemingly normal or 'right' things for us seem totally wrong and idiotic to people from other cultures such as theirs, for example Iran's disgust at Faye Turney - a mother of a young child - being sent out with the armed forces.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Re: Honour Killing.
 

All I can say is, do these people have no love in their hearts? How can any man harm his own child, his flesh and blood? Has their "culture" bred inhumanity into their souls? Do they, indeed, have any soul?

Every time I hear of something like this I despair of the human race and, I'm sorry, prison isn't enough deterrent. Let the punishment fit the crime.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Some Islamic countries stone adulterers, mainly women, unsuprisingly, in market places. Hang homosexual men in the middle of football stadiums, infront of cheering, braying crowds. Cut off the hands of beggar children, who have been caught stealing bread.

These things may seem 'right' and just if you happen to live in a country like Saudi Arabia which practices Sharia Law, but these sort of atrocities, just as these so called honour killings, must not be allowed to happen in this country.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

It's incomprehensible to us isn't it? It just beggars belief.It's murder under another name.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

There is no other name for murder. Murder is Murder....and unless I'm wrong it is condemned in the holy muslim book.
So why do these men feel that they are justified in doing such brutal things? And culture should NOT be used to justify such things.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Iran may be disgusted at the use of a woman soldier, but in many of the middle east countries women serve alongside men in arena's of war.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Are you sure about this? We are constantly informed that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Sadly, yes I'm sure.

I'm not being anti-Islamic, there's also plenty of injustice and cruelty carried out in the world in the name of Jesus too.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Sorry, I wasn't comparing the Faye Turney situation to the one Lampman highlighted, I was using it to make a point about different culture's views.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning it at all.
Sharia Law or anything like it has no place in our society.
Muslims/their literature should not be scapegoated for such atrocities however.
Christians go by the commandment 'thou shalt not kill', yet in the same publication we see that Abraham was more than ready to sacrifice his son to prove his faith in God.

It's scary what people will do for their religion as the world is ever more aware.


Sorry for wandering a bit!

Re: Honour Killing.
 

But Shaker, the muslim belief is supposed to be about peace and kindness......I'm sure there is nothing in the religious book which authorises or condones murder of this nature....culture should not be allowed to excuse or condone it either.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

It's the same with the Bible which condones war in several places yet is seen as the beacon of truth by millions.
There's a lot of differing interpretations of the Qur'an, the majority believe it promotes peace, but there is a select few (obviously, it's on sky news 24/7) who believe it encourages things like holy war.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Hitler was a Christian.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

I actually wasn't talking about the issue of war......which does get coverage in both of the holy books......I was talking of Murder......one human being killing another in cold blood.
I know that in war human beings kill one another in cold blood, but it is usually done under orders from the state/government, except of course for what some muslims will see as a war against non-believers (infidels).....and I think that is different.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

I'm sorry, killing in war & killing 'in cold blood' is exactly the same to me.
Both completely unjust for whatever reason.
But hey, that's just me :rolleyes:


...& I apologize for wandering again.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Of course, you are right!

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Abraham is a prophet of Judaism and Islam too ;)

As a Christian it is my belief that God was showing Abraham an example of what he would do by sacrificing his son, Jesus Christ for the sins of all mankind.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

sorry , dont wish to appear pedantic , but I dont think Abraham was actually a Christian , think you will find he predates them by a few hundred years :D :D

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Then what was to be learned by making Abe' sacrifice a sheep when God's little prank was over? :D

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Iran in fact has several Womens combat battalions, I think the problem arose because the British woman was a mother of a young child and it was percieved by the Iranians as form of child abandonment .

;)

Re: Honour Killing.
 

if your culture dictates honor killing in these circumstances, then these people should sod of to where that culture is acceptable, cos it aint here.:(

Re: Honour Killing.
 

That just about sums it up, I can tolerate some-one having a different point of view, (call it religion if you want), but to kill your own daughter for whatever reason just beggers belief! Any parent will tell you that children can be most annoying especially when they go against your own way of living, but to kill them? That deserves no forgiveness no matter which book you read.
:mad:

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Sorry, Shakey, but I don't hold with this "we mustn't be judgemental about other people's cultures" stuff, when it comes to situations like this. Killing your daughter is not "seemingly barbaric", it IS barbaric, evil and totally unpardonable, no matter what your culture, race or religion. And any culture which regards it as acceptable is degenerate and wicked. End of.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

That's half the problem. Britain has bent over backwards to accomodate all kinds of practices of different cultures in the name of Political Correctness. Nobody's had the guts to stand up and say, "You're here now, you do it our way".

We once had an empire that encompassed much of the Indian subcontinent. One of the common Hindu customs was Suttee, which meant that when a man died and was cremated his widow was supposed to throw herself (or be thrown) on the funeral pyre and be burnt to death. The British Empire made it illegal and, eventually, it was stopped.

Today we are aware of these so-called "honour" murders but we persist in almost dignifying them by referring to them with the word honour. We stand by while young women and girls are treated, in their homes, like 2nd class citizens. We tolerate women (if we can be sure they are all women) walking around covered from head to foot, though we'll ban a small child from a shopping mall because he has his anorak hood on his head.

Maybe if this country stopped trying to be all things to all men, maybe if we said, "Live like us, look like us, do as we do - or leave", it might help to stop the worst excesses of these "cultures". Go to Saudi Arabia and try to live, dress and behave exactly as you do here. I can assure you, having lived there myself, you won't last long.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

I didn't intend that at all Wynonie, I was trying to weigh up the situation but it didn't come across too clearly methinks!

Re: Honour Killing.
 

OK, Shakey, maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

To be honest, I don't mind people coming to this country and retaining their own culture and there are certainly aspects of British culture that I prefer they didn't adopt - go into any town/city centre late on a Saturday night and you'll see what I mean!

However, when immigrant culture contains practices that we regard as unacceptable - so-called "honour" killings, forced marriage, suppression of women, intolerance towards gayness, then we should stop all this namby pamby, liberal guilt-ridden, shilly shallying and say "no, this is wrong!"

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Exactly Wynonie.
Different cultures should be accepted and encouraged within our society, however they should adhere to the laws of the state primarily.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

The men is this so called 'culture' ruled their women with fear and exerted a medieval control over them. The local Kurdish community must also shoulder some of the responsibility for the happenings, as they tried to close ranks and cover up the crime. They also spied on the girl and reported her actions to her male relatives, fully knowing what the outcome would be.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Re: Honour Killing.
 

These victims of the so called honour slayings are betrayed by their own families and by the authorities who promote multi-culturism at any cost.
Imagine the terror of these girls in knowing what the future holds.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

I wonder how the WPC feels now that Banaz is dead....she accused the girl of being manipulating and melodramatic, and also thought about bringing criminal proceedings after Banaz broke a window in an attempt to get away from her violent father and uncle who were trying to kill her.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Re: Honour Killing.
 

I hope so too.

Re: Honour Killing.
 

Ok ... I know that this thread is a little long in the tooth ... but this might interest some of you:

Shafia jury finds all guilty of 1st-degree murder - Montreal - CBC News