Whitebirk planning application.
 

A spokesman for Peel said: "Extensive public consultation has been carried out regarding the Whitebirk retail park application and 90 per cent of Hyndburn residents consulted were in support of the scheme.

Whitebirk Retail Plan Set For Approval (from Blackburn Citizen)

What do we think?

Will it mean less business for town centre shops, or will there be no change?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Peel Holdings are getting too big for their boots.

Town businesses will suffer both in Accrington and Blackburn.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Sorry, can't take part in this one because I support the changes and I believe that the town centre will suffer.

I've said for a long time that the route to success in Accrington is not to compete with the likes of Next or any other chain store. We don't have the spending capacity in Accrington to make any of those stores viable. Keep them out of the town centre and let the council make the profit on the rent of the land.

In the town centre we should be concentrating on specialist shops - make Accrington the place to buy specialist meats, arts stuff, antiques, or any other type of stuff.

If you don't view it as competition the two types of shopping experiences can sit side by side.

So won't be voting on this one.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

That sounds like a good idea to me Gayle.:)

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

This is one of those occasions when I totally agree with Gayle!

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

but will they want pound shops at whitebirk:Banane19::Banane19:its not very green either more green belt destroyed .plus more poisoness fumes from cars.plus its going to be big high street shops there's enough of them already..

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

People keep on saying Accrington should become a 'specialised' retail town.

What exactly does that mean? Because it sounds like a mix of wishful thinking and empty rhetoric to me.

Are there any examples anyone can illustrate the term with?

In Ross-on-Wye, there are lots of bookshops. Harrogate, and Woodbridge in Suffolk offer an array of antique shops, but after that I'm struggling.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

maybe if the owners of the buildings in accrington decreased the rent they might encourage decent shops into accy .whitebirk will be a white elephant because there is enough retail parks in lancashire to cover the population..i know its off thread why are:confused: there so many food outlets in accrington?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Clitheroe and Whalley are two towns that come to my mind Garinda.They both have specialised shops.I take 'specialised' to mean offering products/services that you don't find everywhere else,things that are a bit different from the norm.In Clitheroe there is a shop that sells all different types of sausages.They will even make them specially for you so you can choose what goes into them.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I don't know really, but I like the idea anyway.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

tea shops:D:D:D

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

[QUOTE=Gayle;439593]Sorry, can't take part in this one because I support the changes and I believe that the town centre will suffer.


In the town centre we should be concentrating on specialist shops - make Accrington the place to buy specialist meats, arts stuff, antiques, or any other type of stuff.

/QUOTE]

Can't agree with you on this one Gayle. Gotta' think in a business type of way (not arty farty), and today's punters.

Have said on other threads, shops like Next,Debenhams, and larger Boots, is what shoppers want these days, and the only way to ring fence our locals is to try and attract them to overspill into the market, and then maybe can bring on the specialist shops. If they get out at Whitebirk, we have no chance whatsoever.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Sorry,should have said specialist not specialised.Think everyone knows what I mean though!:)

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

You've got to know your demographic, and to put it bluntly Accrington doesn't have the kind of demographic to support the tweedy type shops Whalley and Clitheroe does.

As for towns supporting an arty farty array of shops, St. Ives, which has one of the biggest communities of artists in the country outside of London, has only three galleries, and one framers, and that takes into account the hundreds of thousands of tourists who go there each year, which certainly can't be said of Accrington.

If planning consent is given for Whitebirk to sell goods they currently can't, it will be the death knell for retailing in Accrington.

Ten years ago there were five shops/stores were you could buy electrical goods in Accrington, four independents and one multiple, now there are none.

I know the country around Bluewater quite well. What were once thriving towns, in affluent areas, are now deserted, with tumbleweed blowing past the ubiquitous hairdressers, take aways, and estate agents, where once there was an array of independent businesses, servicing the communities many and varied needs.

If Whitebirk does get the go ahead to sell things other than white goods, just watch the gradual exodus, as stores like M & S, Burton's, Argos etc. relocate there, and the smaller independent shops we currently have, disappear altogether.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I also find the remark from a spokesman representing Peel a little ambiguous .. "no evidence to support the claims that harm will be brought to Accy town centre as a result of this application" No evidence ? (what is it based on then :rolleyes:).. then what no evidence do they have that harm will notbe brought to our centre by this application then !! Think I got that right.

Is it me ?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

No, you are quite right. They, Peel Holdings, keep speaking of customer surveys supporting the application. These weren't independent surveys, and probably consisted of asking ten people who had bought a fridge at Whitebirk, if they'd like a bigger choice of stores there.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

respect your point of view,disagree with it though, retail parks are all well n good for people with Transport for one,i believe it will affect our town centres for another, agree with what someone said about the High Rents in town, what dissapoints me though is you sitting on the fence of this poll,fail to see why you cant take part as support is one of the 2 options, always thought you had the streangth of yer convictions.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

One thing is for sure, retail parks don't have many, if any, independent or specialist shops there.


Soon the whole country will be serviced by just ten massive companies, which besides being sad, will leave us all at their mercy, and the monopoly they will have, will offer us very little real choice.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Ok Garinda, but can only go with the flow on how the market stands at this moment in time, and make an economic decision based on that.

Retail may even go full circle after that and then, and only then when people tire of the mundane and seek out something more 'bespoke' or 'unusual', but that aint gonna happen for some time yet.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

After sleeping on it (and sobering up:D), I've changed my mind on this one and voted against. Still think there's some scope for quirky, specialist shops in the Warner Street/Arcade area, but not as a substitute for the major stores.

In particular, Gary's worrying description of what Accy could be like in a few years time has caused my 180o turn. Sorry, Gayle, I would've liked to agree with you just for once, but I can't.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

My current employers are trying to get a unit on there; I think it will mean that the "big players" in Accy may think twice about renewing leases and we may lose some. Not that we have many anyway ! Shop rents in Accy are ridiculously high for the footfall you get and anything that pulls the shoppers out of town can't be good news.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

well we have a lot of accyweb members that live here in Hyndburn so where you consulted?
i was not !

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

will be very suprised if anyone even knows somebody that was consulted.:rolleyes:

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Whitebirk, as a retail destination, is pretty uninspired and uninspiring. Something clearly needs to be done about it.Whenever I go past the place all I notice is car showrooms. For one thing the links to Accrington Town Centre really do need looking at. If the Council are serious in their intent to develop the site in competition with Blackburn's Greenbank site then the proposal needs to be given the go-ahead. From their obvious determination to develop the site it would appear that Peel holdings anticipate generating a significant increase in income as a result of the proposal. Consequently, the chicken feed offer of £700K to improve Accrington Town centre and links to it should be doubled, at the very least. The council should also take this as an opportunity to insist that Peel construct something a little more substantial than the usual agglomeration of identikit tin sheds.

The route from Accrington to Whitebirk via Church, Dunkenhalgh and Rishton should also be designated as a retail corridor with enhanced planning, transport and access status; something which could be of benefit not just to Accrington but to two of its "and District" townships too.

Though I hate to use the phrases, what is needed is some "Blue-Sky", "Out-of-the-Box" thinking on this issue. If we look at this as an opportunity rather than an irksome imposition we might get somewhere.

The Council could also insist on Peel Holdings' assistance in the redevelopment of Accrington Town Centre. We have what they want, they have more than enough money and experience to be able to change Accrington and District for the better. If the council go about this in the right way the future could look a good deal rosier than it does at the moment.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Can't see why you think I'm sitting on the fence here - I've clearly stated that I support the changes.

I also believe that it will cause the town to suffer. But let's stop and think about the town centre for a minute. Are you all back in your rosy haze about the wonderful town centre that we had thirty years ago or are you actually talking about today's town centre? Because in my opinion the town centre is already dead in its current format.

What is needed is the following:-
An huge influx of development money into the town centre
Some creative thinking that moves away from traditional town centre approaches
Improved bus routes and development plans to alter the routes to the new retail park
A design approach to making the town centre 'look' better - and by that I don't mean just flowers (although not criticising them) but someone who can improve fascias and shop fronts
Something that is an attraction in the town centre - whether it's specialist book shops like Hay, arts stuffs like Hebden bridge or a farm in the centre - something that sets it apart
Creative events in the town centre each week i.e. music, buskers, jugglers etc - all things that enhance the liveliness of the town
Knock a few buildings down in the town centre to open it up and build a better bus station and a more open vibrant market

The town centre is already dead so instead of trying to rebuild it just like it was (that's no longer viable in today's market) do something different.


I think I have enough opinions here to safely say that I am nowhere near the fence at the moment!

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

ACCRINGTON a town full of pound shops and take aways,the rents are to high and lets have a new retail park were you can go and browse without stepping in dog sh*te and falling over loose flagstones and floor chippings and slipping on the arndale floor because the roof still leaks

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Well, the council has now granted a contract to a company of Planning Consultants to submit plans to redevelope the town centre and surrounding areas at a huge fee, so will just have to be patient and see what is afoot.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Can you honestly say that HBC having £700,000 to spend on regenerating Accrinton town centre, will have any lasting, and long term benefits?

Remember, the supposed regeneration of Broadway cost £500,000.

I think not.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I support it. Leave Accrington to the chavs and winoes.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Since you are no longer sitting on the fence (:D), which buildings would you knock down?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Gayle mentioned Hebden Bridge, which as a satellite town, with a population of only 4,500, can't really be compared to Accy, but I do take her point about the diversity there.

I came across this interesting article, about what's made Hebden Bridge so thriving a place. Apparently it's all down to gays and lesbians!

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/ViewA...icleID=1046694

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

answer to why ? cos as you clearly stated you are for the thing- yet say you are unable to vote, thats clear as mud.:p i agree entirely the town centre is dead in its present format, but i think with this it will be buried,the suggestions A-Bob, made have much merit, but who the hell can honestly say the trust HBC to push hard to obtain them?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

This made me laugh.:p

'They (the lesbians) either work outside Hebden Bridge or they create their own jobs within the alternative community. 'And let's face it - no local is going to complain that any job which involves aromatherapy and meditation is theirs by right.'

Lesbians the toast of the Two Ferrets | UK News | The Observer

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I certainly think that something needs to be done to curtail the proliferation of Fast Food Takeaways. Allright, I accept that they occupy otherwise empty retail premises and contribute to the local economy through business rates but, operating mainly in the evenings, they can hardly be said to contribute much to the retail experience and do not really make the streetscape very attractive.

Another bone of contention is the conversion of retail units in the town centre to offices to accomodate Solicitors, Accountants, Estate Agents and Insurance Brokers etc.; this is one of the reasons why town centre rents are so high.

For both of these scourges the only body to blame is the local planning authority.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Getting back on topic Garinda
you really need transport to get to Whitebirk retail park.
i dont think there is a bus service there and back so i only go when i can get a lift.
if there was a bus service i would use it more often.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

And another thing......When you have a local authority who believe that the only solution to falling market rent revenue is to raise them beyond the reach of all but those with the very deepest pockets then you are clearly on the slippery slope to decline and closure.

Accrington Town Centre has a great many problems to overcome, the chief of which is HBC and its planning department.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

We had a questionnaire sent to us,I think it was Peel Holdings that sent it,asking whether or not we would be in favour of the new development.This was ages ago though,think it was last year sometime.Did no-one else get one?We can't have been the only ones.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Sorry if you think I was going off thread.

Hebden Bridge was mentioned as an example of a town with a diverse range of businesses, and the Mayor of Hebden Bridge's comments as to why it is so thriving, I do think are relevant to the discussion.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

No, I didn't get a questionnaire. Did you get it through the post?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Yes,it came in the post.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Because I agree with both statements on the poll. So whilst I support the changes I also think that it will affect the town centre. I can't vote for either as I think either are actually correct.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

The logical places to me would be to knock down the block that is a sort of triangle to the right of the bus station - one side of Peel St (the Peel Chemist side) across to Blackburn Rd and up to Abbey St. I would then develop that into a better bus station, central square and large market.

This would then open up the route to Warner St and that side of town better and would create far more opportunities for the rest of the the town than those little shops have in that area. Sorry if you own a shop in that area but you've got to be cruel to be kind. :D

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

thats my main gripe its ok for me i have a car, many have not, straying a bit this is the mentality Thatcher created in people.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Just out of interest, how many people actually shop in Accrington on a regular basis, and I don't mean just driving into the carpark at ASDA once a week?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

go in a couple of times a week at least.very rarely go asda

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Just the same here.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

agree - not being chauvanist but i would rather shop without women.:D

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

There you go Katex now you know whats a foot:D

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Yes, that's the area that I'm including. The Baptist Church could stay I suppose as it's just on the edge of the area that I'm talking about. I'm sure they've got the technology to move the telephone exchange.

It'll never happen though - bold ideas always get diluted!

I got a questionnaire regarding the development but I didn't fill it in. One reason was that I'm pretty sure it was during the elections and didn't want it to be a vote decider either way.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

My mum goes into Accrington every day but I do my supermarket shopping online and only go into Accrington when I'm off work.I use the shops and facilities in Ossy more,on a weekly basis.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

What about this:
Send the people who run Accrington market to Whitebirk for six monthe and when they cock it up as they usually do people might come back to Accy?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

The Observer's poll is currently showing 70% for and 30% against.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

As opposed to ours, which currently shows 75% against, and 25% in favour.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Sorry I joined this thread late katex, I think the spokesman is trying to say, "there is no evidence that Peel Holdings will take money off town centre shop keepers and put in their pockets" I think.:confused:

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

It would be interesting to know how many people voted in the Observer's poll.You can't really use the Accyweb poll to guage the general consensus of opinion because only 16 people have voted on that one.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Of course you can, it's just as valid as the Observer one, maybe even more so, as opposed to the Observer one we can see where people live.

I wonder how many of the staff at Peel Holdings voted in the Observer poll, since they seem to set so much store by the results of such polls?:rolleyes:

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

The application has been thrown out!

Peel Retail Plan Thrown Out Appeal Planned (from Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

well thats the end of that one then:rolleyes:

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

What if Peel Holdings pulled out and closed the site down, HBC would loose out then big stile.
Looks as though our 'councillors'(butchers, bakers & candle stick makers) know better than the professional planners (who said yes to the application) :confused:

Will our Councillors also vote yes to a planning application for an industrial site, to the south of the whitebirk retail park, an industrial site that could affect the lives of residents living on Windsor road Knuzden
see page 23 Accrington Observer Friday 22nd June.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I wouldn't bet on it.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

They won't pull out. They'll carry on renting out units, selling the goods they are allowed to sell.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I was preparing to write a long post about this, seems I might not have to now!

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Let's hope common sense prevails, and they loose their appeal, it makes no sense to move your retail base to another town. We have no decent white goods outlet in the town centre since they were allowed to retail them at Whitebirk, this would have been the beginning of the end of the rest of them. What about the choices of the citizens without transport or access to the internet, they deserve the benefit of competitive retaling as well.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

excuse me for being "Dumb" seen it mentioned quite a few times now, but WHAT the hell is white goods?:confused:

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Kitchen appliances such as washing machines,fridges,dishwashers etc.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

thanks Lilly, its been bugging me,must be some new "Buzz" word or summat stupid like that, or i'm totally stupid.:D

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Well, in the meantime, our councillors have got to try really hard to attract one mainstream retailer .. ok .. gotta' be Next I suppose, where there is one of these, others will follow.

Might have to take some type of 'lost leader' to dangle the carrot, but convinced it would work.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I don't think the salvation of our town centre would be a NEXT store.

Few random thoughts.
If we were unable to attract the big names these are what I would do -
concentrate on nearby housing - there are some but not many houses in the town centre - if there were better flats and accomodation much more centrally then you'd get a better economy there. As it is the houses closest to the town centre are some of the worst in the area.

Where people are there is money - so improved evening facilities like restaurants - not just fast food places. I can only think of one restaurant roughly in the centre.

Attractions - there is no reason to come into the centre in the evening unless you're a drinker.

Obviously, not just concentrating on the evening culture but I've said it many times - specialist shops - not NEXT and the like but boutiques, delis, art shops etc. As it is at the moment NEXT won't come but they'd be in like a shot if the town had something special to offer.

Making it attractive - by that I mean the roads into the town as well. If someone was coming by bus the route in has to look good. Look immediately out of the centre and the majority of routes in are run down. I know there's work going on Blackburn Rd but all the routes need looking at.

There needs to be better controls about what sort of shop fronts are allowed - i.e. no back lit signs, no garish colours, all in keeping with a certain style - even the big boys curb their usual garish styles when they're in upmarket towns.

Finally, policing - by bringing more houses/flats into the centre you'd have an automatic police force twitching their curtains. But you need more of a presence during the days as well so that trouble is moved on or stopped before it's started. Get the message over loud and clear.

Oh, and clamp down on chewing gum and litter.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Oh our dear dear STUPID cashy :D we love ya all the same :p

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I think the housing is a good idea. When I moved back here I would certainly have considered a loft type apartment in the town centre.

Sadly, unlike in most other parts of the country, there aren't any.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Sorry Gayle, ya' still got yer aesthetic, arty head on .. not the business head.

You have to think of the catchment and, as Garinda has already tried to put the point across of geographics .. we do not harbour that type of clientele.

Would help if M&S and Boots could extend a little too.

Sort of agree about the evening culture, as mentioned, hope Ken Horkins plan for a wine bar on Church Street will be a little more open to the street, etc., but the drinkers are not spending money in the shops. The evening culture/apartments would just follow, even specialist shops would bounce off the nucleus, maybe around Warner Street .. our 'South Quarter' (probably got that wrong geographically**.. gotta' start realistically.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Agreed, but that should also apply to any new buildings as well, so we don't end up with Toy Town architecture, topped off by a French chateuesque roof, that the council allowed to be built on the site of the old outside market.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Love the idea of Accy being a haven for artists and artisans, but as someone who has actually run several, successful retail businesses, I feel it is even more wishful thinking, and not something that would be economically viable. As stated earlier, there are very few 'arty' shops in St Ives, despite the hoardes of tourists, and a sizable artist community.

I was chatting to the woman who runs the nearest thing we have to an antique shop in Accy, in the Victorian Arcade, and until we went in, and only taken forty quid in a week. Not much of a living wage, is it?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I disagree about starting realistically, you have to be bold in order to attract consumers - just being like all the other towns won't cut it anymore. The physical size of Accrington means that it can't compete with Blackburn and Burnley so instead of attempting to it should try to be something different.

I do have a business head on Katie but I think you have your rose coloured specs on for the good old days. Why should Accrington town centre be a shopping centre - just because it always has been. That's failed so now it's time to be a bit radical and try something different.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

It doesn't have to be 'arty' - just specialist shops.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Well rather you than me, sitting in a shop all day selling pot pourri, and a few candles.;)

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

What about visitor attractions? Even small ones like the old clock brought people in but bigger ones like Eureka or Sea Life or something on a smaller scale but you get the idea.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Think I have got my very modern head on Gayle .. not living in the past at all, as were more specialised shops then. High street shops are the modern era.

Think you are trying to create a Utopia, and as things stand at the moment, will not happen.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

As things stand!!!!!

We have to stop thinking about 'as things stand' and aim for something different.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

This town was built by town center retailers, when we were all on a more level playing field, no cars walking to the shops was a day out to savour, Saturday with 'Uncle Dick' after a feast of films at the Odeon. How long have the likes of 'Bramwells' made sure you and yours had a piece of fish, DO WE NOT OWE THE LIKES OF THEM SOME DEGREE OF LOYALTY?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Absolutely Ianto.

Bramwells would come under the category of 'specialist' shops. The town was built by specialist shops - Bramwell's, Wardleworths etc etc then a few of the big guns came in Principles, Dorothy Perkins, Burtons etc and took up valuable retail space. So they built the Arndale so that the could squash more of them in. This pushed the price up for smaller independent shops and so they closed and moved out. Then the big guns realised that they couldn't sustain the place all on their own so started closing down or moving into smaller spaces.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I may be a bit thick here, but why would Next want to move from their large store by Blackburn Ice Rink to a large store at Whitebirk which has a much poorer transport system and greater traffic congestion ?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

I don't think they would move - which in a way proves that they were trying to get the Accrington £ and not the Blackburn one.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Well, think we agree to disagree :D

I would love to see the town that you describe Gayle, but got to make it commercially viable in the first instance. Next was only an example by the way, but we punters do love 'em, men or women.

These young folks not interested in the Bramwells, Wood Tobacconists and so forth, but attracting them to what they want will overspill to build others around them. We are not initially a town like Hebden Bridge, Skipton or Clitheroe which is a tourist attraction in the first degree, and would be difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

As before, all about keeping our folks in ... not competing with Blackburn or Burnley.

Seem to be two ends of the poles .. think we should meet in the middle you and I and could get some sorta' compromise, obviously, we both care about our township ...HYNDBURN !! (any opportunity ;) )


This is the site you should be studying:-

Planning Policy Statement 6: Planning for Town Centres - Communities and Local Government

Pity you didn't make Councillor Gayle (meant genuinely) .. I would have been your appendage, or whatever they call the 'escort' to the Mayor .. whoops off thread .. why do they have to have one of those anyway ? All extra cost like.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Perhaps we're both talking about the same thing except one is the chicken and one the egg - which will come first?

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Pity you didn't make Councillor Gayle (meant genuinely) .. I would have been your appendage, or whatever they call the 'escort' to the Mayor .. whoops off thread .. why do they have to have one of those anyway ? All extra cost like.[/quote]

As I understand it if the Mayor is unmarried then he/she can appoint a Mayor's Consort as Mayoress so no matter who is Mayor we will still have a Mayor and Mayoress,no extra cost.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

It just means that when the Mayor isn't available there's a spare to attend events. The Mayoress (or consort) also takes on their own duties - for example when Miles Parkinson was Mayor we invited his wife the Mayoress to one of our women's event.

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Yeh, but how disappointing, who wants second best.

Like inviting the Queen and getting Helen Mirren.

Hey, if you had made Mayor, would Chris have attended the women's events then, if you were not available ? (sure he would have loved it) ... :D

Re: Whitebirk planning application.
 

Probably the Ugly Duckling, who would have been lurking in the wings... :D