More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Makes me sick.:mad:

Fury Over 'Pathetic' Sentence For Child Rapist - Yahoo! News UK

When are we going to show that any crime of this form will not be tolerated.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

If it's the same story I heard earlier, then there's actually a lot more to this story than that report makes out.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

i've heard this before too. The decision to buy her a new bike was an appalling idea when this case first came up in court.

Alot of decision seem very lenient but I am sure their is probably a very rational decision for it that we just dont get told.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I believe the bicycle comment was the same judge, but a completely different case.

This 10 year old was apparently sexually active and was made-up to look at least 16. She approached the 24 year old man and initiated consensual sex, whilst telling him she was 16.

The key to the sentencing was the statement, "She looked 16, that was a matter that was accepted."

The prosecution has stipulated that the girl appeared to look 16, adding that to her provocative dress and behaviour, it's going to be hard for the judge to jail for an extended period.
The perpetrator had already served eight months in prison, so it's actually a one year sentence, possibly two.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

My goodness, a sexually active ten year old? Who the h*ll taught her? At that age I thought girls would be playing with dolls, perhaps somebody else needs investigating as well as the guy sentenced? :confused:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Ah i think the sentence was pretty fair then. I reckon a few 24 yr olds would be tempted by a pretty 16yr old even if there is a biggish age gap. If he genuinely thought it was lawful sex and had no reason to doubt it then it would be more unjust to give him a huge sentence if you ask me. Its not like he had an unlawful intention.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I wouldnt buy his blag.

His accomplice Darren Wright, 34, took her home and sexually assaulted her. They had sex within 45 minutes of meeting.

10 Years old, surely they knew she wasnt 16, and if they did believe that, then they still took advantage of a vunarable young girl.:mad:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

a similar story about a young German kid who is in trouble in Turkey because of his involvment with a young English slag
Midnight Express Revisited: Turkish Romance Ends in Prison for German Teen - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Compulsive reading for anyone thinking of going on a 'cheap' Turkish jaunt, or of letting this medeaeval nation, the greater part of it being in Asia, into the EEC.:cool:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I heard James Whale prattling on the radio last night about this, saying there was more to the case than meets the eye, but I fell asleep before understanding it fully.

She is a ten year old child, and as such cannot give consent, therefore it is rape, and should be judged as such, in the severest means possible.

Whichever social/care workers who are responsible for this girl's welfare, in loco parentis, should be shot, or at the very least sacked.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I feel sorry for young lads today. It must be really difficult to tell the difference between a 16 year old and a 14 year old. What about a 17 year old lad who has consensual sex with a 15 year old girl? Should that be judged as rape too (I don't mean legally, but morally)?

I'm not talking particularly about this case, as I would have thought that a 10 year old wouldn't be anywhere near developed physically enough to be mistaken for a 16 year old, but who knows?

The public are on the verge of an outcry everytime something like this occurs, but so many parents are happy to sexualise their children in the name of 'fashion'. Seems like double standards to me.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

She was in care, and is ten years old and sexually active.

We as a society have let her down.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

As I said, I'm not talking about this particular case.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

There are alot of cases of young men mistakenly havign sex with underage girls. They dont intend to commit a rape, they intend to have sex with a girl they believe is 16 and legal. If the girl looks like she may have past as older to the court then they can be sympathetic to the situation and pass a lighter sentence.

Its not saying to rapists, go out and rape ten year olds and get way with it, because thats not what happened in this case. It was more a case of mistake.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Exactly.

Rape is Rape. Consensual sex is not rape.

Underage sex (As in the first thred) is totally wrong, when there is a 10 year old girl and two adult males, one 24 and the other 34, the later having sex within 45 mins of meeting her. My word he did his homework didnt he made sure that she was of consentual age or just wanted in because his mate told him how gullable she was.

Surely they knew the truth.:mad:

Mistake, I still cant beliveve it.

Happen they should send her out let see how many places would of sold her a lottery ticked/Scratch card or even sold her cigaretts.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Mistake doesnt require the mistake to be reasonable. I don't know if they'd accept the defence of mistake in this case. I know there is a case i've studied along the same lines but I cant remember what the decision was. It was likely very similar though. If you search for the name of the defendant on the times law pages you may be able to find it out and see the ratio decidendi for the case officially, then u can know the exact reason for the 'slack' decision.

I have revision to do right now but I might have a search later if i remember ;)

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

No matter what she was wearing, or how developed she was, a ten year old child's body cannot be confused with that of someone who is sixteen, or over.

Simple.

The judge should be locked up, along with this child's 'care' workers.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

The judge has to follow guidelines that are set, he doesn't just make it all up himself.

Chances are he was a very conservative judge though, whom generally dislike making amendments to law and prefer to leave it to parliament to fix.

Its the governments fault that bad decisions are made. If their was no such thing as the parliament act 1911 chances are mistakes like that wouldnt be made, as gaps in the law would be filled before theyre past. Unfortunatly the goverment would rather rush bills through the system now rather than ensure theyre fool-proof.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

As opposed to those young, trendy, liberal judges, who have actually heard of The Beatles?:D

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Even the prosecution agreed that she looked 16, so she must have been convincing.

I don't think any of us are in a position to make a judgment in this case, as we don't have the correct level of information. It's easy to talk about soft judges and ineffective sentencing, but without the facts it counts for nothing.

Virtually everyone is saying that there is alot more to this story than we are hearing about. Who's to say that the judge made a bad decision? We, as a society, allow these individuals to make the decisions for us. Sometimes they are tough decisions to make, especially when they have to be made within some very stringent guidlines.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

the opposite are actually liberal judges but they arent young unfortunatly.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

im sorry but how can a 10 year old look like a sixteen year old?

this is baffling me!

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

i cant beleive any 10 year old girl could make me think she was sixteen not in looks or her mannerisms

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I think its hard to understand how a ten yr old could look like a 16yr old but i'm sure a full jury and judge aren't stupid. Obviously they had some doubt over how reasonable the mistake was otherwise they could've easily given an even lighter sentence.

There were girs when I started high school that had decently developed breasts and with the right type of clothes and makeup, could've passed as alot older. Some girls hit puberty at 9 and if they developed at quite a speed, I dont see why they couldn't have had some formation that may have made them look like a petite adult rather than a child.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

you only have to look at a 10 year old to know shes not 16!!
its a big difference, no 10 year old, no matter how much makeup they put on..etc will not pass for 16, for one they are too inmature to even act like one:rolleyes:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

This isn't the first case where this type of situation has happened. A ten year old can be very mature aswell dependant on their pasts and upbringing.

One day you'll likely have to be on a jury and you might have to make a tough decision. If you see its an obvious mistake do you make sure justice is served or do you make sure he's sent down with those who have intentionally committed sex offences?

16yr olds can be very immature aswell not just 10yr olds, and in some cases their can be very little difference dependant on upbringing.
Theres a 21yr old lad in my history class that thinks its still funny to shout 'eggs' every lesson. I would class that behaviour of a ten yr old, so if it can work one way im sure it can work the other.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

But wont a 10 year old still have the little girlish voice :confused:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

exactly, plus a baby face!

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Totally agree, they knew she wasnt 16, not likey they are going to admit that though are they.

10 Years old, still at primary School, Im dam sure I would not mistake ANY Primary School Child as possibly being 16.

They two men in question are old enough to know better, they should of had doubts even if they thought she was 16, it obvious that they where not bothered and only after sex, the older of the two had sex within 45 minutes of meeting the girl.:mad:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Many men and women go out for the sole intention of 'pulling'.

I don't think was a very serious case compared to many and whilst its easy enough to just make your own assumptions, you aren't meant to make assumptions in the court room like that, your meant to make decisions based on fact.

Judges have a very difficult job and they can't please everyone. There are worse decisions than this one.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Not a serious case? Two men 'rape', a ten year old child, (no matter how you view her willingness that has got to be what it should be called, these men have no excuse and should not be able to pretend they have), so far as I understand sex with an under sixteen year old is illegal, (especially when it involves a grown man), and sex with a child under 12 is supposed to carry even graver consequences!

The only worse decision that there could possibly be would be after their act they had murdered her and because they apologise to the court they would be released because they promised not to do it again.
:mad:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I said compared to many. There are even worse cases than this.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I know you said that and I am saying you are wrong, wrong, wrong! This was a very bad judgement on a very serious crime against a child or have I and many like me been under the illusion that sex with children isn't a crime at all?

I find your attitude towards protecting young members of your own sex unbelievable.

How you can continue with this line of 'reasoning' is ridiculous.
:(

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I meant there are WORSE scenario's than this, not that it isn't a crime. I.E the case not so long back of the raped baby. In comparison that is much worse.

Do I need to give examples of horrible stories with every think i say so then people understand my points. I'm a law student, I'm bound to say some cases are worse than others and that there are worse decisions that others. Just because I said there are worse than this particular case doesn't mean i'm saying this one isn't bad. I think your reading in between the lines of everything I say too much and interpreting it wrong.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Oh, so sorry, here you are a law student, obviously you have more common sense and experience than an old fool like me that spent his time blundering through life not learning anything and always claiming, "It's not my fault your honour, if only I had spent my teens as a law student I would never have been so ignorant as to have commited my latest crime".

Come on girl, give me a little benefit of the doubt don't just write me off as stupid and then I might think education isn't being wasted on you, as it is you make no sense to me at all!

:bangh8:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Then stop referring to me as not caring about raped little girls just because I said there are worse cases. I didn't say this wasn't a crime, I said it could've possibly used the defence of mistake which could've resulted in the reduced sentence. Stop with your patronising ageist crap and stop reading what isn't there.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

How would you like a job as Tony Blaires aid in his new job working as his assistant 'peace envoy', I'm sure he could use your natural skills in diplomacy.

P.S. we aren't allowed to say, on site, it will probably mean a ban for both of us. :hitting8:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Tony Blair already has law qualifications as does his wife who is a highly regarded QC in contract law. I doubt I'd be very useful.

And why cant you say crap? I've seen worse things said on the forum and nobodies said a thing?

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

To be fair I doubt you'd be very useful either. Now we have something in common. The more you pick on me the more I think we should be friends :rolleyes:

How old are u less?

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Old enough to know better, but too old to change.:D

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

If there was reasonable doubt that the girl could have been mistaken for 16, then the prosecution would have acted on that. As it was, even the prosecution agreed that the girl could have been taken for 16.

Nobody who is making these wild claims on here has seen the girl or how she looked. How can you make the claims that you are doing? People who saw her said she looked older than she was. She was already experienced and sexually active. I think some of you are confusing this girl with the ideal 10 year old.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I'm confusing her with a ten year old that needs to be protected against her own and other peoples mistakes a basic right surely for any child?

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I agree that she needed to be protected, but it's not as black and white as it seems.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I got to agree with you, a jury is made up of ordinary people like everyone on accyweb and they all would've had to come to a majority decision that that man wasn't as criminal as your typical child rapist.

It may not be realistic that a ten year old looked 16 but how realistic is it that a ten year old has sexual experience in normal society? Doesnt this just show that anything is possible.

Nobody is saying don't protect her but she has been brought up to act in this disgraceful way and a man is being punished for being manipulated and lied to by her. They're both in the wrong, hence the lenient sentence.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Oh dear. :surprise:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I know, I was disappointed I had to agree with you as well because you seem to cause as much trouble on the forum as the next student ;);)

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

A child of ten cannot give consent to sexual intercourse, therefore it is rape, no matter what she was wearing or looks like.

By the same dangerous precedent, are women who wear clothes and makeup, to make themselves look attractive, asking to be raped?

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

i,m with tin monkey n blazey on this one,of coarse 10 yr olds need protecting,but unless weve seen her n heard all there is too hear then no-ones in a position to say, think Mary Bell was only a couple of years older when she commited murder? and kids were less developed/ more niave in those days?:confused:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Mary Bell was ten when she killed, but this isn't an issue about criminal liability. This girl isn't a criminal, she's a victim.

I remain totally unconvinced that two grown men can't tell the difference between a ten year old girl and someone who is at least sixteen.

I suppose someone could supply a picture as evidence, of a child looking like a sexually active woman, but that's what most civilised people call child pornography.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

if what the prosecution themselves say is correct, both could be victims? many things in life seem very unlikely but surprise us.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Well I find it amazing, a ten year old child is a ten year old child, she needs protection no matter how old she looks. There are no circumstances that I can think of, (probably no examples that could convince me), that this was anything but the rape of a child! How much of an imagination do I need to pretend that a ten year old can look sixteen, if I managed to get that sort of idea into my head I would be as sick as the people that actually do think no harm is done to a child that is treated in this manner.



No matter how precocious that child might have been she needed guidance but not of the sexual kind!
:mad:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

have to agree with Less and Grinda on this , the excuse that she was sexually active "Lolita" no way negates that this was child abuse , maybe other posters who have made excuses for these animals also believe the old saying , "no one misses a slice of a cut loaf" :confused: :confused:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Not really, I drop my little girl of a school every day, (Primary) and Im sure NONE of the Girls in the school would look anything like 16.

Like buying Fags, a underage buys fags, she "looks" 16 but is only 10, the Trading Standards find out, will the shop get away with it, NO, should the shop made sure she was 16, YES.

IMO, even if they thought she was 16, she WASNT, they should be made a example of.

There should be a ZERO tollerance on ANY child cases where the child is let say under 13. And the offender over 18, and by ZERO tollerence I mean ZERO tollerance.

If in any doubt Proof of age should be asked for especialy in the climate of today.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

She was a sexually active 10yr old girl, that in itself is more of a surprise than the fact these men had slept with her, I mean she was said to be experienced and had done it before.

At 10yrs old she herself is liable for criminal behaviour and I am sorry but children cannot go out intending to sleep with men and then be treated like victims. That in itself is abnormal disgusting behavior and she is old enough to be legally liable for her own actions.

Its happened before and it will happen again. Little girls behaving like that is a product of society, not the legal system, and thats a much bigger worry than the fact this man still went to prison and has recked his life. He's going to have to carry that record around for a long long time. I think that's enough punishment for a man who slept with a willing sexually active ten year old.

It absolutely sickens me that a little girl manipulates men to sleep with her believing she is much older and nobody is worried about the mental state of a person who would act in such a way at that age. Bringing up the example of Mary Bell is a VERY good example as its another case of a seriously messed up little girl just at a different level. What children are actually capable of doing is scary and from 10yr old upwards yes they ARE treated like a criminal, so they best face up to some responsibility if they want to have a sex life.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Whoever gave Tin monkey bad rep aswell without putting their name to it is a coward and kindly got me blamed for it. Why he would think it was me when I was the one who said I agreed with him I do not really know as he didnt say what the message was but I assume it offended him quite a bit.

The bad rep was 'if your going to say something at least put your name to it' off him to me. I would've said something to any of you in here if I didn't like what you said, I dont need to take it to the reputation system unless I think you've said something inappropriate.

I think the person who did do it should own up instead of being a coward.

And if it WAS me just on the off chance, I apologise for not putting my name. It could be a case of me forgetting as I do have short term memory problems but I dont recall handing out any reputation tonight.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Definatly wasn't me as I can and have given him good rep as I agreed with his point and I put my name... you can verify that with the mods tin monkey if you have suspicions that I got someone else to give it u on my behalf or something.

My memory is bad but it isnt that bad :D

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

The ten year old killers of Jamie Bulger only served eight years of a life sentence, and like Mary Bell, will continue to have their privacy protected and funded at the expense of the tax payer. All of which seems to afford a greater level of security and justice, than was handed out to this ten year old girl.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I can imagine 8yrs in prison is a long time for 10yr old boys though and privacy is protected for the good of good people, not them. Do you think the courts want to have to punish good people who act criminally against these terrible people in a 'moral' way? Its better for everyone if we don't have to hear of them or see good people sent to prison because of them.

I'd rather not have young killers like mary bell and thomson and venebles on the streets but to be quite frank I'd rather not have to hear of sexually active ten yr olds on the street either, who although may have had a rubbish upbringing, should still realise that every other ten yr old she would've attended school with wont be having sex with grown men.
10 yr olds are capable of knowing right from wrong no matter what they're upbringing, and she should know perfectly well she shouldn't be having sex with anyone, especially not grown men.

I have sympathy for the girl don't get me wrong but I will not be fooled into believing a ten yr old has no common sense. Mary Bell herself is a clear example that ten yr old girls are very very capable of forming decisions and knowing all too well that they shouldn't be doing it.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

the point was not about criminal liability, it was about what some kids are capable of, i remember people commenting about Mary Bell at the time,some where saying, she didn,t know what she was doing - too young to understand etc, history proved them wrong, i said she was an evil bitch n got some stick off a couple of women on our street, i was only a teenager- what did i know? i stand by my point - the prosecution have ALL the facts, not the press, they know far more about it than you or i, and that will do for me. if they were saying she was not willing thats a whole differant ball game, its just the same as mary bell, some people cannot see any bad in kiddies.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Some adults actually go out at night with the full intentions of accusing men of rape and if children like Mary Bell are capable of committing murder as we percieve an adult to do, then its perfectly possible no matter how unlikely that a little girl could also go out with the intentions of accusing someone of raping her.

Mental illnesses aren't ust limited to adults, children can also have frightening tendencies as well which I would really refer to as mental illness more than anything. Children who do things like Mary Bell are in no way normal children, and children who are sexually active at the age of 10 to be deemed 'experienced' are in no way normal either and as sad as it is that a little girl has been brought up wrongly and in bad circumstances does not mean she deserves to be made out to be a poor innocent victim without looking at the facts, which as already said the courts will have had ALL the facts and made the decision accordingly.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Men are warned more than women not to sleep around these days on drunken nights out in case the women isn't happy the night after and accuses him of rape.
Its scary that there are women so willing to do that to someone because they wish they hadn't done something.

People can so easily choose to reck another persons life and they're looked at in a sympathetic way. You shouldn't think subjectively when looking at situations like these, it often leads to very bad decisions. You have to be really detached to people if you want to give a true opinion of the situation.

Its a bit like how doctors have to be objective when they decide to turn off a life support machine or stop trying to revive someone. They can't let their own feelings get in the way of a decision.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Yes, isn't that terrible? she is sexually active at 10 years old? Does that not indicate she was corrupted? I have met many 10 year olds but never noticed them to be more sexually aware than the traditional Rhubarb patch of 'doctors and Nurses' type thing, (with kids of their own age), to know about sex, some swine taught her.

This is a disgraceful reflection of how we still haven't enough protection for children no matter what background they come from.

No child should be forced or persuaded to lose their innocence, growing up without some form of security, is a bad reflection on the rest of us, not the child.
:mad:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

From the sounds of the story she would've had to be keen to participate or else she could've just said, I'm only 10yrs old and the men would've likely backed off.

How many 10yr olds dress up to look 16 and go out for sex with nobody pressurising it directly? Fair enough if someone older had sent her out to do it but there is no other person involved, she did it on her own accord. The men may have suggested sex but she would've had to have lied about her own age and dressed up to look 16 herself.

I'm sorry but yes 10yr olds are generally naive and innocent but this one doesnt sound like your typical 10yr old, and although it would be better to believe she is just a victim in all this, it would be unfair to suggest she isn't partially to blame for the circumstances.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Ok, she must be a nasty little slut, and she should have been the sentenced and locked up, and the nice men should be financially fully compensated for the stress of being arrested.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I'm saying in situations like these its not always black and white one persons fault. Unless you have read the law report on it nobody can make a proper judgement on why the decision was made. Like I said I've had to study things like this before and there have been sympathetic views taken and just strict ones.

Its not necessarily a poor judgement on the judges part but without seeing his reasoning for it you just can't tell and you cant know the full story. The newspapers are not reliable for giving the in's and outs of the true facts.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

how you reached that conclusion beats me- dont think anyone else has.:confused:

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Looking at the title of this thread and having read through the previous postings a thought ocurred. Within the crimnal justice arena mistakes are clearly made from time to time and there are aspects of the process which are outdated and to some degree out of step with Britain today. That being said the British Criminal Justice system is on the whole extremely good.

In regard to threads posted about juvenile offenders- how long do you think children who murder should be sent to prison for? Life?

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I think they should be assessed when they reach adulthood and then it should be decided whether they are safe to return to begin normal adult life or continue serving time.

I also agree the legal system is good and far more fairer than some other countries, although I imagine some people would prefer more conservative laws based on an eye for an eye rulings...

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Couldnt agree more.
Never quite understood the logic of an eye for an eye-
what you did was so wrong it needs to be punished, I mean it was just so wrong we cant believe it. How could anyone do something as wrong as this. Do you know what- it was so wrong we are going to do the same thing to you. But hang on a minute doesnt that mean we have now done the really wrong thing as well!!

Did Derek Bentley meet the eye for an eye sollution to his 'offence'.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

I don't agree with the eye for an eye thing either, its illogical.

My boyfriend did an english essay on the Let Him Have It case. I ended up writing most of it lol but he managed to write his name on the top.

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

Always the best way to do a piece of work I find- claim to be struggling get some support to the extent that it is done for you then simply add your monica to the top- he sounds like he might be extremely wise. Just for a laugh next time you are faced with this predicament write an insightful expose of the social impact of Spongebob Squarepants. The long winter evenings will just fly by!

Re: More to show how pathetic the justice system is
 

lol thats terrible!