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Royboy39 02-08-2007 15:10
Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
This is the cause of many accidents on the motorway.
What do you think?

Motorway Middle Lane Hoggers Blasted (from Lancashire Telegraph)

Lilly 02-08-2007 15:18
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
I get very scared on the motorway,this is just as a passenger,I won't actually drive on the motorway myself.If I was to contemplate it I would have to have some specific motorway lessons first.I don't think people should be given a driving license without having had motorway lessons.So many people just haven't got a clue and accidents and deaths happen every day because of people who just don't know what they're supposed to be doing.Middle lane hoggers,people who change lanes without checking to see if there's a car already at the side of them and without indicating!!! We had a couple of these instances coming back from holiday and were so close to being crashed into.They frightened me so much I nearly wet myself:(.They are a menace.

cashman 02-08-2007 15:20
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
it can be a damn pain, but the biggest pain to me is caused by HGV drivers overtaking in the middle lane n not able to go fast enough for the oncoming traffic behind, that to me causes far more danger n stress etc.

Royboy39 02-08-2007 15:33
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 455455)
it can be a damn pain, but the biggest pain to me is caused by HGV drivers overtaking in the middle lane n not able to go fast enough for the oncoming traffic behind, that to me causes far more danger n stress etc.
That can't be avoided unfortunately - I have seen many instances where HGV's have been slowed down by these middle lane hoggers and the HGV unlike smaller vehicle can't accelerate away and can't move to the outside lane or overtake on the inside.
It's a no win situation. - I would suggest that the hoggers get an automatic 6 points on their licences

West Ender 02-08-2007 15:34
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Middle Lane Hogs drive me mad (literally). So do the berks who go straight to the outside lane and sit there tailgating your backside if you have the temerity to use it, while overtaking Middle Lane Hog, and making them drop their speed below 90 m.p.h.

I first started driving on motorways when the M6 went from Preston to North of Wolverhampton - and no further. The drill was, you drove in the left hand lane and the other lanes were for overtaking. That hasn't changed. If people used motorways properly, driving in the left lane without beetling along at 60 or tearing along at 90, they would be a damned sight safer.

cashman 02-08-2007 15:37
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 455460)
That can't be avoided unfortunately - I have seen many instances where HGV's have been slowed down by these middle lane hoggers and the HGV unlike smaller vehicle can't accelerate away and can't move to the outside lane or overtake on the inside.
It's a no win situation. - I would suggest that the hoggers get an automatic 6 points on their licences
i can go with that no prob,but think HGVs should be restricted to the inside lane only.

Royboy39 02-08-2007 15:41
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 455463)
i can go with that no prob,but think HGVs should be restricted to the inside lane only.
That would bring the transport industry to a standstill and I don't think the railways could cope.
I am of the opinion that if everyone does as they are supposed to do the traffic would run smoothly
(Not in my time) :rolleyes:

Gayle 02-08-2007 15:43
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
As well as a maximum speed on the motorway, I think there should be a minimum one as well. Sometimes you see these people pottering along and they're holding everything up.

cashman 02-08-2007 15:43
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 455466)
That would bring the transport industry to a standstill and I don't think the railways could cope.
I am of the opinion that if everyone does as they are supposed to do the traffic would run smoothly
(Not in my time) :rolleyes:
blame DR Beeching for the railways not being able to cope, (I DO):D

lancsdave 02-08-2007 15:59
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Middle lane hoggers are a pain in the bum, as are those who think the entry slip road to the motorway is a right of way and everyone should stop to let them in.

West Ender 02-08-2007 16:07
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
My son is an HGV driver and drives all over Britain. His journeys are worked out, in terms of driving time, so he can get to his destination on schedule. Being restricted to the inside lane could, sometimes, double the length of the journey time. Bearing in mind that he could be travelling to Aberdeen or Penzance or anywhere in between, the cost of freighting would inevitably rise, followed by a rise in the retail price of the goods he's transporting.

The HGV gets into the middle lane and can't accelerate enough to overtake? Could that be because the person he's trying to overtake has started to go a bit faster? I've seen that happen so many times.

jambutty 02-08-2007 16:31
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
And so they should be. Read and obey the Highway Code.

The Motorway rules of the road are fine as they are. Where it goes wrong is with the motorist who thinks the rules apply to everyone except themselves and they think that they are the greatest drivers that ever lived.

People complain about relatively slow moving HGV’s and taking a couple of miles in the middle lane to overtake another one. Tough! They have as much right to be on the road as the flash impatient drivers.

A thought. If the EuroStar can take HGV’s over to France and Belgium and bring them back why can’t a similar system move HGV’s from major town/city to major town/city in the UK? Now that WOULD empty the motorways. Too simple I guess. But imagine the saving in diesel – a massive reduction in atmospheric pollution. No more tired drivers.

Sorry Gayle but you couldn’t have a minimum speed. If you did everyone could be booked when the traffic slowed to a crawl, which it does quite often these days. Then again what about when conditions are so bad that to go above say 50 mph would be suicidal. You would end up with a mass of ‘if’ rules.

People still blame Dr Beeching for the state of the railways today but all he did was close down unprofitable branch and secondary lines. The real problem was government underfunding and restrictive practices by the various unions and intransigence of management.

MargaretR 02-08-2007 16:47
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Dr Beeching was a director of a large road haulage firm, closed more lines than needed to be closed, and should never have been given the job due to his profit led interests in their closure.

Royboy39 02-08-2007 16:49
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 455488)

A thought. If the EuroStar can take HGV’s over to France and Belgium and bring them back why can’t a similar system move HGV’s from major town/city to major town/city in the UK? Now that WOULD empty the motorways. Too simple I guess. But imagine the saving in diesel – a massive reduction in atmospheric pollution. No more tired drivers..
Railway bridges in the UK are not high enough, it would cost a fortune to rectify.

jambutty 02-08-2007 17:06
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 455502)
Railway bridges in the UK are not high enough, it would cost a fortune to rectify.
If some of the bridges are not high enough then lower the rail track.

Royboy39 02-08-2007 17:10
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 455509)
If some of the bridges are not high enough then lower the rail track.
Jim..........I would suggest that all the bridges are not high enough?

jambutty 02-08-2007 17:28
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 455511)
Jim..........I would suggest that all the bridges are not high enough?
OK! So all bridges are too low. By suggesting lowering the rail track I was pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat. You just have to look at the problem from a wider angle.

Trains transport sea going containers OK so no bridge would be too low. What is wrong in using those instead of a huge HGV? After all a goods train is just a land going ship of a different shape.

With proper organisation most of the goods traffic could go by rail between the major towns and cities.

Royboy39 02-08-2007 17:45
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 455516)
OK! So all bridges are too low. By suggesting lowering the rail track I was pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat. You just have to look at the problem from a wider angle.

Trains transport sea going containers OK so no bridge would be too low. What is wrong in using those instead of a huge HGV? After all a goods train is just a land going ship of a different shape.

With proper organisation most of the goods traffic could go by rail between the major towns and cities.
That would cause havoc in the transport industry - Thousands of jobs etc.,
The containers would still have to be transported to the trains and would still need HGV's to take the goods to delivery destinations.
Perishable foods have to be delivered on time at risk of a penalty to the haulier. I dont think it will work.

katex 02-08-2007 18:25
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Problem is most motorways are so congested these days, that it is very rare that you can get a decent gap in the inside lane to make it worth your while before you have to exit into the middle lane to overtake the slower lorries, and then you can't get out because of the middle lane drivers.

I can't see what the problem is if driving a car, you just move out into the outside lane to overtake and back again .. again if you can find a decent stretch to continue at the speed you like to travel .. over 60 m.p.h. of course.

I have a great respect for lorry drivers and understand that they may wish to overtake the slower larger one in front (particularly going down hill) and so easy to spot when they wish to do this and automatically move into outside lane .. so many drivers cannot anticipate this at all.

I am quite bemused, on the rare occasions, you have a good stretch of clear motorway (only on the M65, M40, M54, north M6 during the day,does this rarely happen) by the ones that do hog the middle lane .. came up against one this week travelling around 60, and you have to move out to middle,then outside to overtake .. do not undertake or could find yourself with a police siren up yer backside.

jambutty 02-08-2007 18:30
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 455530)
That would cause havoc in the transport industry - Thousands of jobs etc.,
The containers would still have to be transported to the trains and would still need HGV's to take the goods to delivery destinations.
Perishable foods have to be delivered on time at risk of a penalty to the haulier. I dont think it will work.
It cost tens of thousands of jobs in the coal, steel, shipbuilding and cotton industry to mention just four and caused havoc. It’s called progress.

Too right the containers would have still to be transported from the railhead to the shops/depots etc. by road. What's the difference between coming from a motoroway into smaller towns and from a rail head? Hardly any. But it would save hundreds of thousands of road miles (on motorways) transporting by rail between cities/towns. It would probably be cheaper too.

Instead of being away from home for days on end HGV drivers could go home every night. Some may not like that but I should imagine that the majority would jump at the chance.

Perishable goods have to be delivered on time now so what’s the difference?

The problem with this country is that no sooner has someone come up with a new way of doing something all you get is negative feedback usually ending with “it can’t be done”. What’s happened to the ‘get up and go’ that this country used to have? I guess it must have got up and gone.

jambutty 02-08-2007 18:42
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katex (Post 455552)
Problem is most motorways are so congested these days, that it is very rare that you can get a decent gap in the inside lane to make it worth your while before you have to exit into the middle lane to overtake the slower lorries, and then you can't get out because of the middle lane drivers.

I can't see what the problem is if driving a car, you just move out into the outside lane to overtake and back again .. again if you can find a decent stretch to continue at the speed you like to travel .. over 60 m.p.h. of course.

I have a great respect for lorry drivers and understand that they may wish to overtake the slower larger one in front (particularly going down hill) and so easy to spot when they wish to do this and automatically move into outside lane .. so many drivers cannot anticipate this at all.

I am quite bemused, on the rare occasions, you have a good stretch of clear motorway (only on the M65, M40, M54, north M6 during the day,does this rarely happen) by the ones that do hog the middle lane .. came up against one this week travelling around 60, and you have to move out to middle,then outside to overtake .. do not undertake or could find yourself with a police siren up yer backside.
This undertaking issue isn’t really an issue. If you are in the inside lane doing 70 mph, which you are allowed to do, and you come up against someone in the middle lane doing 60 mph you do not have to slow down to match their speed nor do you have to move out to the overtaking lane to pass them and get back into the nearside lane. You just keep on going as you were. No cop will ever pull you for that. And if he did he would have hard time explaining to the Magistrate why he pulled you.

It is only undertaking if you are in the middle lane and come up behind a middle lane hogger and you peel off to the inside lane to overtake and then get back into the middle lane.

cashman 02-08-2007 18:54
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 455488)
Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!



People still blame Dr Beeching for the state of the railways today but all he did was close down unprofitable branch and secondary lines. The real problem was government underfunding and restrictive practices by the various unions and intransigence of management.
as far as i'm concerned this is not quite correct, sure unprofitable branch lines were shut, but so were profitable ones if my information was correct, a local example was platform1 accrington- manchester line,most of the older members will remember all the wheelchairs on platform1 for delivery to wherever,a late friend who worked on the railway told me many times it was a profitable little line, myself as an anorak (train spotter) in those days used the manchester line frequently n was always quite busy, after the demise of it,the wheelchairs went to road haulage,along with countless other goods around the country,sure underfunding by the government is a factor, same could be said of the NHS today, so nowts changed their.

katex 02-08-2007 19:02
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 455559)
This undertaking issue isn’t really an issue. If you are in the inside lane doing 70 mph, which you are allowed to do, and you come up against someone in the middle lane doing 60 mph you do not have to slow down to match their speed nor do you have to move out to the overtaking lane to pass them and get back into the nearside lane. You just keep on going as you were. No cop will ever pull you for that. And if he did he would have hard time explaining to the Magistrate why he pulled you.

It is only undertaking if you are in the middle lane and come up behind a middle lane hogger and you peel off to the inside lane to overtake and then get back into the middle lane.
You could be correct Jambutty .. always found this rule a little ambiguous:-

242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

Always feel best to play safe though.. :D It does only state in congested conditions though, not clear motorways as I was trying to explain :confused:

cashman 02-08-2007 19:34
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
see HGV driver or ex has got the hump at my post, :rofl38: like i give a monkeys about anonimity.:D

K.S.H 02-08-2007 19:41
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Theres only 1 thing that causes problems on roads - lack of respect
Happens in all lanes on all roads by all kinds of vehicle drivers, get some respect on the roads and 99% of the problems will go

davo69 02-08-2007 20:27
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
if some one is in the middle lane with strech of inside l.ane empty they should move over if you are in the middle lane doing 70 mph over taking constently and some prat comes behind you flashing is lights just because they cant be botherd to move into third lane then thats rong

entwisi 02-08-2007 20:49
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
I spend a good 2-2.5 hours a day on motorways and have covered over 250 thousand miles on them in the last 10 years.


I tend to be at the top end of the speed spectrum and whilst I find it infuriating to a degree to be stuck at 56 down teh M66 as a wagon overtakes another taking 1 mile or more to do it I sit back and wait for my turn to overtake. Middle lane hoggers are a pain in the bum, however there is NO law against 'undertaking'. At best you could be done for careless or dangerous driving but Plod need a significant amount of evidence to persue this, just passing someone whilst driving with full car and attention on teh left would not be enough. BTW , this is from a traffic plod biker I know so is absolutely correct.

as for shifting freight to railways, They stuggle to cope with teh current workload never mind the extra that is being suggested. Does this mean we should spend billions on upgrading railways or look at other ways...

katex 02-08-2007 21:23
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 455597)

I tend to be at the top end of the speed spectrum and whilst I find it infuriating to a degree to be stuck at 56 down teh M66 as a wagon overtakes another taking 1 mile or more to do it I sit back and wait for my turn to overtake. Middle lane hoggers are a pain in the bum, however there is NO law against 'undertaking'. At best you could be done for careless or dangerous driving but Plod need a significant amount of evidence to persue this, just passing someone whilst driving with full car and attention on teh left would not be enough. BTW , this is from a traffic plod biker I know so is absolutely correct.
The M66 is mainly dual carriageway is it not Entwisi ? apart from the crawler lane coming up to Bury ? The Highway Code does appear to have rules though. Still can't see why middle lane hoggers would be a 'pain in the bum' to you though, when so easy to move into outside lane..just for lorry drivers who are not allowed in this lane.

' Course it is dangerous to undertake as never know when middle lane driver will move into inside lane as they will not be looking at their mirror to confirm anyone in this lane as usually nervous drivers, gripping wheel and only watching car in front.

entwisi 02-08-2007 21:56
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
the M66 is a 2 lane motorway, not a dual carriageway. As such lorrys are allowed in the outside lane.

if two wagons are side by side for over a mile (i've measured them over 5 miles to do one overtake BTW) then it gets annoying

As for undertaking, for your second comment you should be paying FULL attention all the time so it shouldn't be a problem

jambutty 02-08-2007 22:11
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 455597)
as for shifting freight to railways, They stuggle to cope with teh current workload never mind the extra that is being suggested. Does this mean we should spend billions on upgrading railways or look at other ways...
Problems are there to be solved and not just brushed aside and hope that they go away. But then that is a ‘can do’ attitude which sadly these days has turned into a ‘can’t be done’ attitude.

The current workload is related to the passenger service, which as you have to admit is different to freight. There is plenty of safe capacity to run an hourly freight service between the major towns and cities without interfering with the passenger service. Pick any point on a main line and count the trains that go by in the same direction. In most cases you would probably be lucky to see one an hour.

Without advocating a return to steam but when I was a kid and well into the fifties and sixties there were more freight trains than passenger trains. And in those days the car wasn’t god so most people travelled by train. They coped OK in those far off days. So why can’t they do it today?

harwood red 02-08-2007 22:23
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Have to say that middle lane hoggers are one of my biggest bug bears!!!!! It literally drives me mad :mad:

katex 02-08-2007 23:04
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 455639)
the M66 is a 2 lane motorway, not a dual carriageway. As such lorrys are allowed in the outside lane.

if two wagons are side by side for over a mile (i've measured them over 5 miles to do one overtake BTW) then it gets annoying

As for undertaking, for your second comment you should be paying FULL attention all the time so it shouldn't be a problem
Ok .. two lane motorway .. stop splitting hairs, but no middle lane.

They need to pass the inside lorries at some stage Entwisi .. don't be so selfish .. only takes a couple of minutes, ok doesn't always work out for them if they hit an incline, and they usually move back into inside lane asap.
I get satisfaction on the M66 letting lorries do this ...worth it for the wink and the flash of lights to say thank you :D .. like K.S.H. says, all about respect for other drivers, think you should take this on board.

I do try and pay FULL attention at all times, but I am not perfect, make mistakes, but realise that other drivers aren't either, particularly middle lane drivers on a clear road, that is why I attempt to give them a wide berth, and not get so smug.

What's up with you ? You're a really lovely person; do you change behind the wheel ? :evil::(

cashman 02-08-2007 23:15
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katex (Post 455674)
Ok .. two lane motorway .. stop splitting hairs, but no middle lane.

They need to pass the inside lorries at some stage Entwisi .. don't be so selfish .. only takes a couple of minutes, ok doesn't always work out for them if they hit an incline, and they usually move back into inside lane asap.
I get satisfaction on the M66 letting lorries do this ...worth it for the wink and the flash of lights to say thank you :D .. like K.S.H. says, all about respect for other drivers, think you should take this on board.

I do try and pay FULL attention at all times, but I am not perfect, make mistakes, but realise that other drivers aren't either, particularly middle lane drivers on a clear road, that is why I attempt to give them a wide berth, and not get so smug.

What's up with you ? You're a really lovely person; do you change behind the wheel ? :evil::(
slaggin him off n then creeping,typical female ploy kate.:D

katex 02-08-2007 23:21
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 455676)
slaggin him off n then creeping,typical female ploy kate.:D
And you can stop stirring it ! :p OK .. you got me sussed ... :D

cashman 02-08-2007 23:33
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katex (Post 455677)
And you can stop stirring it ! :p OK .. you got me sussed ... :D
Touche- ya got me sussed as well.:rofl38:

entwisi 03-08-2007 07:18
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katex (Post 455674)
Ok .. two lane motorway .. stop splitting hairs, but no middle lane.

They need to pass the inside lorries at some stage Entwisi .. don't be so selfish .. only takes a couple of minutes, ok doesn't always work out for them if they hit an incline, and they usually move back into inside lane asap.
I get satisfaction on the M66 letting lorries do this ...worth it for the wink and the flash of lights to say thank you :D .. like K.S.H. says, all about respect for other drivers, think you should take this on board.

I do try and pay FULL attention at all times, but I am not perfect, make mistakes, but realise that other drivers aren't either, particularly middle lane drivers on a clear road, that is why I attempt to give them a wide berth, and not get so smug.

What's up with you ? You're a really lovely person; do you change behind the wheel ? :evil::(

I think your at cross purposes here, if you read my original post I said quite happily that whilst it can be infuriating at times I sit there without any problem. If it takes more than a mile then they should admit defeat and drop back in. To sit there for 5 miles is plainly down to the overtaking wagon driver not being considerate to other road usersespecially when they know that no-one can overtake them due to it only being 2 lanes. PS, they tend not to wink and flash at other blokes! :D

Do I change behind teh wheel? Julie says I sometime drop into 'city driving mode' where I expect people to pay attention to what they are doing which round accy doesn't happen that often. I do find that when in M/c the level of attention paid whilst driving is much higher than in countryside towns like accy and knutsford.

Am I impatient? possibly a little, its in my genes and I can't help that. :D

BERNADETTE 03-08-2007 10:14
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
I never learnt to drive and reading the comments in this thread I am so...... glad. It seems to me that most drivers would be best served concentrating on doing just that DRIVING. Getting wound up must surely add to the problems on our roads. One last thought, when God made time he made plenty of it. Why is everbody in a rush these days?

entwisi 03-08-2007 10:31
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 455713)
One last thought, when God made time he made plenty of it. Why is everbody in a rush these days?
I want to get home as quickly as possible so I can spend extra time with Julie and Siobhan, whats wrong with that?

BERNADETTE 03-08-2007 10:35
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 455715)
I want to get home as quickly as possible so I can spend extra time with Julie and Siobhan, whats wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with that, but I am sure they would prefer you to take a bit more time and be safe, than getting worked up about other drivers.:D

BERNADETTE 03-08-2007 10:55
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 455715)
I want to get home as quickly as possible so I can spend extra time with Julie and Siobhan, whats wrong with that?
My original post was just an observation on the replies I have read, think you are all getting to worked up and that is when Road Rage happens. I thank god every day I didn't learn to drive. There are loads of accidents on the roundabout outside our house which could be avoided if people weren't in such a hurry.

entwisi 03-08-2007 10:55
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
I never said I drove recklessly though, I focus on getting home safe and sound as fast as possible , the two aren't mutually exclusive.

BERNADETTE 03-08-2007 11:15
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 455722)
I never said I drove recklessly though, I focus on getting home safe and sound as fast as possible , the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Neither did I say that you drove recklessly, I was just saying that drivers in general need to calm down. If all drivers are right why do accidents happen?

Ber999T 03-08-2007 14:53
Re: Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!
 
have a look at this informational video

Lane Hog


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