1 in 4 living off benefits
 

The news in the LET that one in four people of working age in East Lancs are either shunning work or on benefits surprised me.
In my walk around Accrington centre the sights I espy led me to believe it was far higher than this.
Has somebody found a hole in the trawl net?

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That sounds a lot to me. One in four people of working age are shunning work in favour of benefits? They can't all be genuine, can they?:confused:

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1 In 4 Living Off Benefits (from Lancashire Telegraph)
Well it's in the ' Telegraph so it must be true!:)

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It includes students and early retirees - statistics can be distorted to say whatever you want them to say.

I saw government statistical methods changing often
The answers you get depend on the subtle way the questions are asked

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got it in 1,lol statistics are distorted to give the public a false impression,which happens to suit a particular agency/ gov minister etc etc, and the ones who fall for it are more than likely the ones who think " Coronation St","Eastenders" is real life.:rolleyes:

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This could be a prelude to an announcement that it is 'anti social' to be sick (heaven forbid :rolleyes:)

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That reminds me how are Albert and Ena,not forgetting Bobby the Cat?

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[quote=Lampman;464836]The news in the LET that one in four people of working age in East Lancs are either shunning work or on benefits surprised me.quote]

Doesn't surprise me.

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if you read it properly it says 1 in 4 in east lancashire 1in 3 in hyndburn thats where all our taxes go:(:(:(:(

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I retired at 55 (5 years ago) but I didn't draw any benefits at that time....I have an occupational pension.....I have just recently become eligible for state pension...does that count as benefit even though I paid into it for all of my working life?

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should imagine it depends who is doing the statistics!!;)

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Only 1 in 3 ?? Yet strangely they all have lots of "disposable income" for 2 ltr bottles of strong cider and endless pasties and roll ups but never quite enough for the kids nappies or babyfood !!!:eek:

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

Lindsay, they have a warped sense of financial prioritising.

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It also includes people on Incapacity Allowance and Disability Living Allowance as well as Students and people who have taken early retirement. Anybody can see that this article was written to provoke people who are working into thinking that everyone who is on benefits is just trying to cheat the system. This sort of reporting makes me so angry:mad:

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The figure isn't any higher than it has always been. It includes none working childcaring parents, students, people who are lucky enough (and wealthy enough) not to need to work, early retirees and people who just are below the radar. (black economy). The unemployed and incapacity figures are minimal in comparison to this.

As Mark Twain said, there's lies, damn lies and statisitics.

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I meant to watch Ann Widdicomes programme on bennifit cheats and i forgot,,,I wonder what she found out,,

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When was that on?:confused:

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Take a walk around Accrington centre anyday anytime,there are dozens of loafers strolling around.Surely they are not all on shift work?

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The Ann Widecombe program centre on one bloke with as he said 2 wives and 17 kids.They jointly got £38,000 in benefits,Ann secured him a job explaining this would take their income up to £46,000.
Tell me who are the idiots?

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Hang on a minute. I could be one of them that 'loaf' around accy town centre and im on benefits and have been for the last 13 years. Its not my fault what happened - in fact mine is classed as an industrial disease seeing as it happened when i was at work.

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Nothing personal,not all can be classed under the same heading,but there are a lot of people promenading the centre most with a pasty in hand!
Some will be genuine cases,others dollopers as is the way of many towns these days.
Some have never had nor ever wanted a job,they bleed our society like financial leeches and as a life long taxpayer I really resent it.Though as I asked before who are the idiots?

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People like this really get to me, Ian is on DLA and he really is entilted to it, yet you see these scroungers getting benefits that they are not entitled to. They are getting genuine claimants a bad name and as to. how they manage it is beyond me. Ian not only gave the names of both his surgeons on the form, he also had to go to our GP for an assessment because they hadn't seen him.The only reason he had not been to the GP was that he was being seen at the hospital all the time so why waste their time as well? It is about time the scroungers were rooted out and made to pay back any money that they were not entitled to and made to go to work!!

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sorry folk's no capitals as i am one handed at present, and not to good but must have my 18 penyworth on this thread, after a lifetime spent as an employer and businessman i have for the last 17 years been reduced to 'living off benefits, i paid more than my share in to this system and if i live to be 65 on december 6th this year ,draw 1 weeks old age pension i will die a happy man, not all people on benefits are scroungersit is far to easy to generalise on this thorny issue, judge not your fellow man to harshly lest ye be judged accordingly, amen.be hice to each other i will see you anon ianto.w.

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Sorry to hear that Ianto,by the very nature of the argument only the genuine claiments will appear on this thread.The skiving underclass will just shrug and get on with collecting their money.

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That's because the bogus claimants haven't got a valid point to make and they know it!!!:p

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If i realy wanted to ,i suspose i could claim constant care allowance for my hubby who is realy sick,and neads assistance all the time,but i dont,coz we manage quite well on our works pensions and old age pensions,,,plus d.l.a,,,why be greedy,,,:)

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

That isn't being greedy, it is what you are entitled to and is there to make your life easier,:)

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

I encourage anyone who might be entitled to claim. Check out your rights here
entitledto

Also report the cheats on the website address I put in an earlier post.

There is a budget of money allocated yearly for benefits. The more cheats that get stopped - the more there is to share out amongst the people who are entitled to it

(in effect they are robbing tax payers and benefits claimants alike)

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I agree with you Margaret, Granny should claim the money she is entitled to it!!:D

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I have no problem with genuine claiments getting what they are entitled to. I do have issues with a system that makes it uneconomical to work. I don't blame the people who can sit there earning more from benefits as they could ever do from working, that is using your head and looking after your family. What needs sorting is why this is the cause. To me benefits should be there to provide a support network to ensure people are provided a basic level of living when they are unable to do so themselves. I often wonder why having dodgy knees can be a cause for disablility allowance, Can't they sit at a desk/till/etc like a lot of working people do? I work with a lad who is severely affect by thalidomide such that he types with his toes. To look at him earning his living with what he has to put up with should shame a heck of a lot of people who sit there and collect the coin. Unfortuantleyas I said earlier, the system is flawed such that they are doing teh right thing for themselves.

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[quote=bullseyebarb;464873]Doesn't surprise me that it doesn't surprise you.:D

I would be suspicious of the Stats ... seems like whenever someone wishes to propse a lowering of benefits, or a tightening up of qualifications for benefits stats like this hit the media.

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must say that sounds like a reasonable argument

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Doesn't it just?:confused:

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half of the people who claim benefits are asian families who bring their families and so on, i think is disgusting, im not racist but i think is bad the way they claim so much money, half of them have about 20 kids so they dont have to work but yet half of the families drive cars i cant even dream on having.http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...ons/icon13.gif

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Not racist eh? It's a bit of a sweeping statement that Yolanda; care to tell us where you got your somewhat vague figures from ? Or is this yet another random generalisation ? From a personal perspective the majority of Asian ladies I see in my store with babies are spending money on nappies and babyfood,the majority of white young mums I see are spending money on dummies and ready made up milk formula. Obviously I can't speak for all of them but that's just from my viewpoint.

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

No a bit over the top Yolanda,20 kids indeed!
There are spongers in all walks of life no matter what colour or creed,but as someone said they are encouraged by the powers that be.

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All those kids will be ones paying income tax to finance retirement pensions in 20 yrs time. Without those kids there will be populaion imbalance and not enough working age to support an aging population

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can i just say....you dont see many, if any, asians on benefits, most of them (most of my asian friends) actually work, they own there own homes, cars and businesses (sp) so yolanda quit the bull

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yeah whatever i wasnt being racist and no u dont see them buying just nappies and whatever, they come to the shop i work and trust me with what one family buys i can make a sunday market for at least 4 weeks, im not racist, in fact my auntie is from pakistan if u must know and she has been in the country for over 40 years but she is a dam good worker, in fact it makes me laugh how sad most of u are , im not being funny but u put ur hand up and tell me that u dont think what i think sometimes

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

Actually you will find most of the "scroungers" are folk with another "income".

Oh and just for the record the easy way to spot someone with a racist statement is when they throw in the comment "I'm not a racist but....."

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well im really sorry if i have offended anyone, i didnt mean to, im sorry everyone hope u forgive me

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Don't worry about it Yolanda, your input is as good as any other.
No pasa nada...Chica

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you will find they some dont own the cars but rent them!
got told this of a dealer;)

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It seems that politicians of the right play on the fears and prejudices of voters. I'm not arguing that voters are openly prejudiced, but the latency still exists, and can be dragged to the surface when times are tough. If a political faction can convince voters that those who have work are supporting lazy (possibly immigrant) "bums" who give nothing back to socity other than slums and increased crime and drug rates, then they will garner votes in an election, at any political level. In general, I believe that parties to the right of centre play on voters' baser instincts, and those in the centre, or to the left, on peoples better natures. I know this is a generalization, but there again, this is a "quick reply."

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As I once posted on an earlier thread less worthy members of the Moss Side estates were shipped here to be resettled.
I think some kind of grant to the council was involved to rehouse the people.
So that could be why we do see a lot of aimless drifters with pram,track/shell suit and pasty.
Again apologies to the genuine claiments.

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

many kids that are growing up today
dont know anything different
all their lives more than likely any parents at hand
never worked so led by example
when i was growing up a million years ago everybody
kind of worked parents made you work
now many parents say why bother just look at me
i can afford not to work in fact i cannot afford to work
ministerial payouts are far to good so just whos fault is it

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

There have always been families like that as long as welfare benefits have existed. When I started work at Accy Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance in 1960, I soon learned the family names of the 'regulars'.
At that time there was legislation in force which prevented such families from having more coming in than that of a council labourer. That didnt get them working or stop them from claiming. That rule was abolished by Barbara Castle because it was the children who felt the poverty (dad stlll had his beer money regardless).

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Think you will find that dad still gets his beer money or whatever they spend it on now. Always the kids who have to go without so that these selfish people are happy:mad:

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Quite - I just want you to know that it isnt a new problem

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I know it has always gone on, just think it was the exception rather than the rule when I was younger now it seems it is to easy not to work!!:confused:

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

Any benefits system will be abused by some - at least it has replaced the Victorian Workhouse which was where both the genuine and the scroungers ended up.

An amusing anecdote - as these 'scrounger dads' shifted between the dole and the sick to avoid being sent to a job, doctors sometimes wrote 'plumbitis' (swinging the lead) on their medical certificates. In fact there was a list of medical terms the doctors used to get them sent early for a medical and so they would move back to the dole again.

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I think another factor is the slump in the jobs available now, I remember my mum going from Burco to Rist Wires and back in the space of one day. She always worked and thought she would like it ay Rist Wires but only did half a day and ended up back at Burco that afternoon, there were loads of jobs then. Firms nowadays get away with far to much, Express Gifts is a prime example taking people on and laying them off just as they please. There is no incentive for people.

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While waiting to start work in the Inland Revenue, when I left school in 1959, I worked for 2 months as a "casual" in the Ministry of Labour in Accrington, the Labour Exchange. I remember seeing a doctor's certificate for one chap that had a long, convoluted Greek word written on it. We looked it up and found it meant "fear of work".

One thing about drawing "dole" in those days was that they had to "sign on" twice a week. That meant going in person to the office and signing that they had been unable to find work. The 2nd signing day was Friday when they collected their dole in cash. If they didn't attend to sign they got no money so, at least, it got the work-shy out of bed. There were also regular interviews to find placements for them and again, if they didn't attend the interviews or if they turned down a suitable job offer, they had no dole.

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So you worked in the Arcade, West Ender - we might have even met or talked by phone (small world :) )

Ministry of Pensions...MPNI , was housed over Bata shoe shop next to the bank. We had a good view of Broadway and the sunken gardens. We often saw one of our regulars striding briskly down Broadway with a walking stick under his arm, and beginning to use it as he got as far as Woods tobacco shop to limp to our door :D

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

I was indeed in the Arcade, Margaret. The office was like a barn with bare wooden floors and sludgy green walls, not a place to encourage folks to linger. I was only there July and August, 1959, then my established Civil Service started and I was a Tax Officer in Bury.

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Oh -I wasn't there at that time -was casual from Sept 59 and established from Feb 60

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And these people think they are so clever!!!;)

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Margaret that wasn't a reference to you , I was talking about the person who pretended he needed a walking stick. When I read the posts back it looked as if I was refering to you and Westender, I can assure you that was not the case!!:o

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ok - I realised that ;)

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If more people shopped those that they know are claiming illegally it might help; even if it just gives those claiming a kick up the butt to do something with thier lives. People get into a rut and are mollycoddled by the state and really have no incentive to get off their arses and do something, It's all done for them and they lose touch with the real world.

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

This is true ... and it is what many who have posted to this thread have forgotten.

And then there is the old song that I can't quite remember: "It's the same the whole world over, it's the poor what gets the blame ... etc."

When thinking of government "support," many forget the support the govt. gives to major corporations: that's it, the rich. I have no good reason to suppose that in this England is all that much different from Canada. In the form of grants, tax loopholes, and incentives govts., particularly conservative (not necessarily Conservative) govts. give money to business in the often proved false belief that they will use this to create jobs. Well, the money goes out; but where are the jobs? We all know: in third (or second) world countries where wages, safety standards etc. are almost non existent. Some years ago in Canada, the New Democratic Party (our Labour) did a lot of research on this and identified what their leader, a rare honest politician, Ed Broadbent, called "Corporate Welfare Bums." And it is to these bums that Billions of "welfare" bucks go. Fortunately, it is getting much better here.

You won't, however, see these bums hanging around on street corners, lounging on their Lamborghinis, guzzling champers, and making asses of themselves. They are rarely visible, and if they are seen they are respectable. But they are there, and they are more responsible for the country's economic problems than are the poor bums.

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same ere willow, he had angina, couldnt walk very far and couldnt even get a disable sticker for his car, or mobilty, he too died:mad: yet someoneelse who can walk very easily and seems to have everything is on mobilty....etc.....i would love to know how they get away with it!

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ok you look at me im walking around, dont use a walking stick or frame etc to get around. I dont have a carer or social worker etc. I've no visible signs of disability. I've been on the sick since 1995 - because i dont look disabled am i a scrounger? I have actually been registered disabled since my 16th birthday but worked until 13 years ago and then did something to my wrists. I still have the braces for my wrists but i try not to wear them. I dont like wearing them because they stop me from doing stuff. So even if it looks like they arent disabled they may be - they may be like me - no visible signs of disability but they are still classed as disabled. You dont know unless you are there when they take the mobility test to see if they pass it or not.

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Willow, if you know these peolpe are not entitled to the benefits they are claiming, then you should report them. If you report them and they are found to be caliming falsely then they may be made to pay back the benefits they have fraudulently obtained.
As they say on TV 'Benefit Fraud is a crime'.

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The dregs of society you see wandering round town everyday are not disabled or long term sick. I don't know how they do it but they dont work. Absolute scumbags. You even see 3 generations of the same family.

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Having taken note of all the comments about genuine disability claimants,I was out and about in Accrington during the course of the day and I still saw loads of people who were roaming around aimlessly doing impressions of Rab c Nesbit.There is a hard core of no hopers in Accrington and I think it is getting worse.

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I agree there a of people claiming who are not entitled to DLA, but I wish people were not so quick to jump to conclusions. Ian went into town the other day to get my birthday present, you can't tell by looking at him that he is being treated for cancer. Anyway to get back to the tale, he had taken his walking stick(which he has only just started using on a regular basis) and as he was leaving the shop the assistant kindly told him he had left it. At this a customer remarked that he probably didn't need it anyway. Remarks like this are very hurtful especially to a man who values his indepence as highly as Ian does. So please don't think everybody who hasn't got a visible disability is a con artist.:(

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dont take this personal, but out of interest, have you been offered the chance of re-training, i mean you can type, which means you could be capable of a data inputter job for example, as i say i am not being personal, its just a generalised question really, as i see it they can class you as disabled if you are unfit to carry out your normal job, but as for a lot of these people on benefits, are they really incapable of carrying out ANY work, and also i ahve seen people in wheelchairs working, so if they can work, is it not a question of re assesing those unfit to work?

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They want to come were i live they are some foke what live not to for from me he claims benifits he had a hart a tack but yet he can still run up and down from his alotment so were or we going wrong.

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Can't believe where you are coming from.......the man is trying to stay alive though keeping himself fit.......what is wrong with that?

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fine, but on the basis that he can run, and work on an allotment, is he not capable of carrying out some kind of work?

or to put it anothe way, if we didnt have the system that we have now and he didnt receive benefits do you think he would be working?

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Why so judgemental? I dread to think how you expect people to live. Maybe we should bring back the workhouse and shove people in there because they aren't fit for work. People don't choose to be ill, I hope and pray it never happens to you!!!:mad:

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so whats wrong with part time?

what is wrong with people earning money for themselves, and having the pride to want to earn their own money, instead we here the age old i have paid my dues routine, there is no stigma with claiming benfits, thats the problem.
im 36 and when i was a lad growing up, you knew who was on benefits, they usually didnt have a car, a phone, and didnt wear all the latest designer gear, thats not the case today.

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The problem with having a chronic illness is that you have good days,bad days and mediocre days but cant forecast them. No employer will tolerate the irregular unreliable attendance

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Bernie you are absolutely on song, I have had two heart attacks and am still here........Time will tell on the ones who are uneducated.

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why so judgemental,errrrrrrr because i pay tax, i work, and we live in a so called democracy with freedom of speech,and i am allowed my opinion and to some degree yes, if everyone on benefits was made to earn the money they receive, you would see a great reduction in benefit fraud, they couldnt be off working if they had to attend somewhere during working hours, and i think you would find a lot of those claiming unemployment would rather get a real job than just get dole money for working, of course there is a need for genuine cases, i just think the rules are lapse and we have a government that uses disabillity benefit as a way of fudging unemployment figures.

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Please do not talk to me as if I were stupid, yes I know there are people claiming benefits who shouldn't be but your argument is over the top. Do you honestly think that someone who has worked all their life and is now ill, claims benefits so that some young person who obviously knows better than their doctor can have a go at them?? Think again, they probably have more pride in their little finger than you will ever have. As I said before I hope it never happens to you!!!

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you obviously are angry and not fully understanding what i wrote
1, i didnt talk down to you in anyway as if you were stupid
2, did i not state that there are genuine cases, so at no point did i presume to know more than anyones doctor(especially because i was talking in the general term, and wouldnt dream of singling anyone out)
3, you used the same argument as i had picked up on ie "worked all their life", because you are not a stupid person, i know that you will understand the economics of the NI contributions, and the money that we pay in today isnt saved away for when we are ill, it is used today, in 30 years time when i claim my state pension(if it still exist), the money i will be drawing wont be the money i have paid in, it will be the money that the then current workforce will be paying in, so its an invalid argument, to say "worked all of their lives" the money has already gone.
4, surely you dont condone a flawed system that is being played by malingerers?
5, over the top? your opinion, what i suggest is a solution to the problem, so instead of taking my comments personally (which they were not intended) why not give a solution of your own, which is not as "over the top"

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I can't provide a solution, nor can you I very much doubt. But at the end of the day people have to live, so if they can't work they have to claim benefits. It gets up my nose as well as yours when I see people who are not entitled to benefits claiming them(especially claiming to be ill). What we have to bear in mind is that there are probably people on this site who are on DLA and would give their right arm not to be.Just because there is no outward sign visible doesn't mean the illness isn't there!!

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Ok here goes sorry for boring you all but he asked. I was registered disabled at the age of 16 because i have epilepsy but eventually i managed to get a job - predjudiced against the epilepsy even though i hadnt had a fit for 3 years. Anyway i went working in a bus depot in the stores. I was lifting heavy stuff brake linings, starter motors, brake shoes, brake drums, cleaning stuff etc and over the years i pulled the tendons in my wrists - I have tenosynavitus in both wrists got signed off on the sick by the physiotherapist in september 94 and got finished from work in March 95 due to physio not working. Next my mother was ill and i was her carer and my epilepsy got worse. In fact at the minute im having a fit a month which isnt much good. I wore braces on both my wrists for the next 10 years every day periodically i went back for more physio and cortisone injections. What i did do in that time besides being my mothers carer was do voluntary work - to get me out of the house and also to keep my hand in i did one morning a week in school, and 1 morning in 3 at our local credit union. Every so often the dwp would send for me to go for medicals or interviews. I would go for the medical then a couple of weeks later i would go for an interview. Anyway started trying to do without my braces - it was hard and it hurt but i persisted only wearing the braces when i needed to - in otherwords when i needed extra support or when they were hurting badly. The epilepsy had carried on but i managed to learn to drive and pass my test, then a couple of years later i had a fit while driving the car crashed it into a wall. Then they said i wasnt ill enough to have DLA anymore because i wasnt wearing my braces everyday - only when i needed them. Anyway my doc said it might be beneficial to me to get a part time job so i applied for one and got it standing on a reception for 5 hrs on a saturday afternoon and my family could look after my mum. Then they changed my job to admin instead of working on reception which is what i trained for. My problem with the epilepsy is that i get no warning for a fit though my brother says he can tell when im working up to one.

Now thats the background. What happens is the epilepsy has got worse, due to injuries through having the fits im waiting for physiotherapy to start on my shoulder and upper arm, but my wrists dont have as much pain as they did 13 years ago - mind you i might just have got used to it and now they ache. No matter what anyone says you are still predjudiced against when you go for job interviews. When you mention you have epilepsy the eyes seem to glass over and it seems to be thanks for coming will be in touch and 3 days later you get a letter saying thanks for applying but you havent got the job. My mother died last year and about 5 months later i started appllying for full time jobs because i wanted to work and didnt have much joy. Retraining - i trained for the job that i knew i would be able to do - admin. I dont type for a long time either i stop after a while to give my wrists a break and my eyes.

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

cheers for that, the reason i was asking as you are one in the loop so to speak, and i was interested if the dwp actvley encouraged you to retrain or that was something you did on own, i find it highly commendable that you did retrain, and made the effort, i just feel from some of the people i have met through my life, that toomany people see it as a meal ticket once they are classed as disabled, and dont bother to retrain, just happy to stay on benefits, and before i get shot down for my comments, ther ARE people out there like that, but it doesnt mean i am labeling every disabled person the same, each case should be judged on its own merits

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You don't need to justify anything to anyone Jen, certainly not to us on here.

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i did say i wasnt being personal, i certainly wasnt asking anyone to justify themselves, i like to think she was just been good enough to answer my question

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I didnt retrain - when i was 14 i was told i would not be able to work in a factory, health & safety reasons if i had a fit i could hurt myself. No shopkeeper would give me a job because if i had a fit while working on the check out or lifting stuff onto the shelves health and safety risk, working with kids - if i had a fit while looking after the kids who'd look after them and me. I was told i would be better training for office work - that was when i was 14 - i stayed on after school and did a secretarial course. I went for a job as an office junior and they actually said to my face that he would employ me except for my epilepsy. That was in a solicitors office down accrington. Hows that for discrimination. They wouldnt get away with that now but back then he did.

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well thanks for answering me, i do agree discrimination was a lot worse, but do you feel that it HAS got that much better?

also thanks for discussing this with me, as some have reacted as though i had suggested eugenics

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

No. People with disabilities still get discriminated against. Not as open as it was but still do.

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

Sorry thread wander, well I am pretty well up on English but must admit you got me with that one. You said it that is how it came across!!:eek:(wander over):p

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

you got me totally lost now
whats all of this wandering?

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

I was the one wandering by going off the subject!!:)

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

oh i get it now, well off to bed, some of us have to get up for work (tongue firmly buried in cheek) lol

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

It better be!!:eek:

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

I was asleep from 8pm til 10pm - need to lie down every 3 or 4 hours for neck pain relief and usualy nod off -thats why I am on here at 1.30am

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

It's my me time at the moment, a bit of relaxation!!

Re: 1 in 4 living off benefits
 

Well we've certainly aired our views on that one,nice to see logical discussion as opposed to the rant we sometimes get.