The Coppice
 

Before we start, I would really appreciate this being a 'P' project free zone. Thanks.

The Coppice overlooks Accrington, it's a beautiful wild place with great views of the town but the monument is vandalised and a mess, as is the shelter and the paths are dangerous.

So, what should be done? Should the monument and shelter be removed completely as they are hazardous or should they be renovated and the pathways fixed up?

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Removed - NO
Renovated - YES
And remove some trees while your up there, far too many of them they spoil it

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Persomally I`d like the monument restored and the shelter demolished and replaced with some sort of seating as there are great views from there. Yes some of the paths could do with upgrading and I think this was done maybe 10 or 15 years ago. The main problem with the paths going up the Coppice is they are eroding because of water draining off the hill due to the drains put in at the same time. I would certainly want a bit of deforestation around the sides as both paths going up are very gloomy and uninviting especially to female walkers.

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It's been there for so long, why take it away. I think it should be renovated.

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BTW - I think that leaving alone is not an option as the monument and shelter are becoming unsafe.

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Renovate as soon as possible and because of its history and links to the serving men of Accrington and District I think a permanent memorial to the Pals should also be erected.

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Restore, restore ... for lots of good reasons, one of which is that I can remember them.

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the monument should be renovated no doubt in my mind, the shelter - debatable, if it can be made more vandal proof then yes,if not then remove, the paths need upgrading,and as others have said, get rid of them horrible trees.many things have been improved over the years,unfortunatly the trees were detrimental to a lovely view.

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The shelter that is there needs knocking down, perhaps being replaced by several sheltered "viewing areas" at different locations. Maybe some would think this a bit OTT but I think the monument should be replaced. A large statue as a tribute to the Pals as mentioned in an earlier post. Floodlight it. Make it stand out so that it can be seen for miles.

A few years back there was a "flame" or "torch" up there, was it for the millenium? can anyone recall ?

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I think it should be renovated, made safe, and be as accessible to as many people as possible..

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I must admit that due to my 'bad feet' I have never been up there, but I think I have missed out seeing this-

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doubt it, probably they were Free or summat.:rolleyes:

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thought that was the case, but wasn't 100% the old brain cells aint what they used to be.:)

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Sobriety will help with this problem too:D:Banane35:

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For those that aren’t aware. In our gallery we have a small collection of recent-ish images of the coppice and its monument / shelter.
You can find them here or click on the image below.

:)


http://www.accringtonweb.com/gallery...ile=100&size=1

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Thanks Len wish I had the feet to walk up there

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I think the buggers just went made at some point, there are cart loads up Fern Gore. What bothers me is the fact that most of them on the Coppice seem to coniferous, not all that brilliant for wildlife and the needles can suffocate the ground so that wild flower and fungi can’t fight back. Who can remember the old days when the coppice was naked, and who can remember Woodnook and Priestley Clough covered in Bluebells and other wild flora as the seasons progressed. We had some fantastic wild places when we where kids, my best memories are the Bluebells in the midst of Oaks, Chestnuts and Sycamores down Woodnook and Skylarks flitting the heavens above Brindles Field off Miller Fold (now cover in weak trees and scrub) Blooming marvellous.

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cheers Len had'nt seen them photos, reminded me what a bloody mess they are when was over with the dog last summer.:(

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Cheer's Len.....it make you feel that people don't care about what they have......it is a shame, what I fear is that it will all be lost unless something positive is done soon.

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I agree, the trees will/are spoiling the view.

However what I did used to find strange is that we all called it the Coppice, even when it was denuded of vegetation, and coppice of course actually means a cultivated thicket of small trees or bushes.

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I once heard that it was derived fro the south african word - copje - meaning small hill

pic named ' Race for the copje'

Race for the Copje by G D Giles - Cranston Fine Arts Aviation, Military and Naval Art

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Don't know whether it's been on here before, but here's a panoramic view taken from the Coppice.

Accrington | Panorama from the Coppice

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Residents and myself have worked hard to secure a renaissance of the Coppice, the paths, monument, protect the bio-diversity (largely through Arden Hall initially) etc... since 2003. It's been a long slog. I always believed the Coppice had potential to be better than it is now as a place to visit.

All the hard work over the years has payed dividends, REMADE at LCC have taken the project onboard and it's now the biggest project in Lancashire of its kind with £1.1m funding over 3 years. The plan is to transform it into a Local Nature Reserve and Regional Park for Lancashire.

There have been two preliminary meeting of stakeholders, environmental groups, councils, project managers etc... The team assembled to deliver the project are very enthisisatic and it's a very exciting project.

I have arranged a special Area Council meeting in January with REMADE and the team as part of the public consultation process to take on board the views of residents before any plans or ideas are set down.

For further info;
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environ...s/peelpark.asp
or contact myself or Huncoat Councillor Paul Gottt

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Don't change the monument, read the "vandalism". No ****** knows what the monument was originally put there for, however people from as far back as the 1950's have etched into it's surface. The childhood memories of dozens of "Accringtonians" are placed in sight of all and you are you to say they should be destroyed ?

Monument for the pals ? No statue will bring you closer than being in the same trenches they trained in. No plaque will say more than the etchings in St John's pews.

Ugly things can be beautiful. When you actually think about it.

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Interesting ... never thought about it in this way. Maybe my name is on it. But I do wish that you had not said "as far back as the 1950s" as if it is ancient history.:D And I agree that ugly things can be beautiful. The thought crosses my mind every time I look in the mirror:eek:

But this is an original approach that deserves serious consideration.

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Interesting views SamF but the majority of the grafitti on the monument is anti-war - both CND from the 70s and Bush stuff.

The monument is nothing to do with any war. It was originally erected in 1909 and unveiled on 29th September 1909 - so it will be the 100 years anniversary in just over two years time. It was erected because the land, which was formerly owned by the Peel family had been handed over to the people of Accrington as common land - the monument was to recognise that.

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So the monument is a sort of evolving time capsule. And if the land and the monument were handed over to the people of Accrington, then the people of Accrington should have the say in what to do with it. Of course, you can't please everyone, but some sort of consensus could be reached.

Oh, and don't forget the people of Clayton who also spent time up there:D

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vaugely remember some kind of metal plate on it, not sure if it was a map.:confused:

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is the coppice the place with all the tree's, is it off burnley road?? sorry, still getting my bearings..... is this a good place to go walking? need somewhere for some excercise and somewhere for my lad to burn off some energy... he got loads!!

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yep thats it emamum, lovely walk on a nice day, you can acess from Peel Park, Avenue Parade, easily on foot.

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It can be a bit of a trudge up there when it's wet, but great on a nice day, as cashman said. But whatever the weather the view over the town is really impressive. It's a must do thing I would say. ;)

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Sorry Gayle, I appreciate and understand why you should want this thread to be a "P" project free zone - but surely you realise by now that ANY project that is put up there is going to be vandalised?

I am for ANY eye-catching scheme including that "P" word ......... BUT ....... only with the guarantee from the council that it will be maintained and looked after!! I cannot vote on this issue purely on this basis.

Until you convince the councils to look after their investments, I cannot see any point in spending money on short-term improvements - - Why you? I think that your time on the accyweb has (hopefully) opened your eyes to the realists view of the attitudes of the youth today. Great ideas WILL be destroyed by moronic chavs, only constant surveillance and finance will secure future projects so ANY future project considered by the council MUST have future maintainance costs built in before it is announced to the public.

(For those newbies, search for "PANOPTICON" if you wonder what the "P" word is about)

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I'd say restore for the monument, I think its a good idea to have some form of shelter up there, a few years ago we were up there when a snow storm came on quite suddenley, it went very windy and visability was bad, we were very pleased there were a shelter at that time.

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Restore it, and plant some Dessiduous and native trees, scrub out the phoney conifers when possible. This will encourage wild life to return to the Coppice, you will not find any wildlife amongst these small leafed or needle leafed trees. Birds won't nest in them rabbits cannot feed beneath them as they block all the light from the floor canopy, nothing grows under conifer / fir type trees, They are not native to our shores in the 'main', the are set ot like an army . Take a look at 40s 50s photographs and see the difference,you can actually see the Coppice as it should be.

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Lets face it the tree's are hear to stay unless we start a campaign.
They look s*** fake and thick but there must be over 1000 and that would cost millions in tree surgeons.

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it does need to be restored, have ya seen all the gravity!!

dates back since the 80's, used to go up there a lot back then when i used to vist me grandma!

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It does look seriously heavy :D
think you meant graffiti

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LOL...gravity...lol...yeh i meant graffiti....:Banane13:

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That probably accounts for all the land slipping from beneath it! ;)

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A decent bulldozer would scrub them out in no time and then shred them for mulch and compost 3 men a fortnight should murder it10.000 to 15 grand at the most minus the money made on the shredded waste. These so called adulterated trees are a blot on the landscape, in my humble opinion.

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Lets get it done.

Why was this never done ?
Conifer trees get the chop | The Guardian | Guardian Unlimited
Guardian arcticle on conifer felling.

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Holy family pupils in the late 60's - early 70's, planted the trees on the coppice face, my dad distinctly remembers planting some, but admit they have grown wild & out of control.

Shame about the mess its in & should be restored & maintained, used to spend most of my time up there as a kid.

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The trees are to be replaced over a long period of time as I understand, back to a more natural species/environment. It is accepted they are not ideal by all, including LCC.

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I accept Busmans point about vandalism. I was thinking about Darwen tower and how impressive that is from distance. It may be unacceptable we replace the current monument so how can we 'improve it' short of cleaning it up an dleaving it as it is (to be vandalised again!!)

I wondered if we made some sort of a glass/glass like replica much bigger and placed it around restricting access to the original whilst creating a more spectacular monument. Is it possible to make thick enough vandal proof glass like surfaces. I am not so sure you can? Just thinking about ideas so no stupid comments please...

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Busman

At no point did I suggest that there should be a project to REPLACE the current monument. But what I did say is that the current monument is in a bad way and probably not safe - should it be restored or removed - replace not being an option.

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If the will and finance is there then it should be a simple excise to make safe and repair the monument. At the end of the day this is local heritage and if we can’t work together and act to resolve the issue then the future as little to offer.

Vandals will always work against the work of others, the best way to control them if not stop them is inclusion, get them involved, community punishments, school projects, special interest grounds. Get them young, get them involved, make them stakeholders in there own communities and I thing many of them will police the site for the community freeing up money for anti vandal treatments etc.

The tress shouldn’t be much of a problem, being shallow rooted they should come out easy enough but think positive, this may be low quality timber, but it’s timber and it as a value, the quality wood can be sold on to fund replanting, the lesser quality stuff can the used to make seating products, low level fencing are be chipped to make pathways or be sold on as composted bark. In essence it all as a value and a part to play the areas future, all it takes will and a little money.

What a about a community volunteer force in the vain of the challenge Anika, local and regional business, trade professionals and local the population working across a couple of months next summer.

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Need trees? We have 9,884, 670 sq. km of them.

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I rather like the trees, but I do agree that they were not the most sensitive solution to the problem of erosion. BTW the species is European Larch (Larix Europaea) and is native to this country.
I can remember, when I was a lad, that the northern face of the coppice was covered with whinberry (Vaccinium Myrtillus) which was full of berries in late summer; also known as bilberry. Walter Smith Bakers on Whalley Road used to make the most exquisite Whinberry pies - sweet and sharper than a serpents tooth. One does not see them used much these days, more's the pity.

I do feel that we should preserve as much of our past as is practical. But we cannot save everything or we risk turning the whole of the borough into a museum and I am sure that nobody wants to live in a museum. The monument could be restored, but the shelter, the gift of Lady Higham I believe, is an eyesore and a magnet for vandals and should be demolished.

I notice that in the link supplied by Graham, Lancs CC see the Coppice as an opportunity for signage - as if we didn't already have enough of the bloody things cluttering the place up. I vote that Lancs CC be told to keep their politically correct noses out of things that do not concern them. The Coppice belongs to the people of Accrington, not to Lancashire County Council and its faceless beurocrats, stakeholders, key workers and associated freeloaders.

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Although it grows very well here, and has been planted here for a long time and has become somewhat naturalised, it isn't a native tree to Britain.

Elizabeth I certainly never sat under one, as it wasn't introduced to these shores until 1620

'The European Larch is native to the mountains of middle Europe, such as the Alps and the Carpathians.'

LarchEuropeanC

Send the buggers back.:D

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Thank you for the correction Dr. Lineus, I still think that they are attractive trees.

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My pleasure to set you right.:D

By the way, it's plain old Rindy Thrower, not Dr. Lineus.;)

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Which is all very well Miss Jekyll, but what would you do with the Coppice were you to be given a free hand?

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I have no problem with the trees being there, if they are coppiced properly. If tended well it would ensure there will still be a wonderful view from the top of the hill, and it would also ensure the flora and fauna would flourish more readily under the regularly coppiced trees, because they'd have more light.

Gertie x

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It is not possible to coppice conifers.

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That is why the Larch shouldn't be grown there.

Yes to Ash, Elder, Oak, Hazel, Wych-elm, Lime, or Hornbeam.

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Fair point, but you missed Willow, which can be pollarded too.

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She can?:eek:

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The trees need to come down: there are far too many and it spoils the view:

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so they might decide to renovate the shelter,what a good idea,some where else for the wino,s and druggies to spend their nights in comfort

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Right on magpie, give them away for Christmas or for recycling, I'll guarantee there gone in a fortnight.

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That's a little extreme ... I don't think that she will sit still for it:eek:

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ooer....... http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...milies/eek.gif

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The original name of the coppice is North rake. Look at all the old maps. It was also originally wooded. The bare coppice everyone remembers fron the 50s, 60s and 70s wasn't how its always been and was an eyesore. Just look at the pic. If it hadn't been planted it would have all started eroding like the "eagle" or devils bit as we used to call it. It didn't help that we always used to slide down the side on cardboard every summer, scorching all the grass.
I personally think the coppice is iles better than it used to be, just needs a little trim for all the shortarses to be able to have a view and all the vandals want hanging by their wotsits.

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No that is not a eyesore the current coppice is a eyesore. Stick a few trees on a nice monument for peels and the pals and bang restored :D. When they were going to do the Hollywood style 'Accrington', They were going to make a pals walk this should be one idea.

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entitled to yer opinion ChrisMg, but i do not think it was an eyesore in 50s/60s, what it is now is an eyesore.:rolleyes:

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I agree the monument and shelter need sorting, but a wooded coppice is better than a bare eroding coppice.
Even with whatever trees there are there, Larch, conifers whatever, theres a damn site more wildlife living there now than before.

Trees eyesores! I just don't get it.
:confused:

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that i thinks explains it Chris, the "type" of freebie trees planted there are not much good for wildlife.

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Just a question: is that Peel Park in the foreground? Stanley's old ground?

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yep Eric, with the peel park boozer just behind, obviously taken after the ground was closed.:(

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I think I figured out the last bit myself:D:D:D

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And the picture of the Coppice and Peel Park ... I put it on my desktop. Memories. It don't get much better. Its a keeper.

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The Trees have brought the deer. If the trees go then so would the deer along with lots of other wild life.

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I cant believe how many people want to remove the tree's to be truthful.

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probably cos they are horrible,worse than triffids:D if nice trees had been planted more sparingly, it would have probably enhanced the coppice n many would not then bitch.;)

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I've been up the coppice once, and I dont recall the view or the trees. I kind of recall a view of a motorway though :confused:

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What year was that pic taken Chris ?????:D

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i remember when the coppice had no trees!!
i think they should remove some, so when you have nearly put your lights out trying to get up to the top, ya then could see accy properly instead of bloody trees!!
like cashman says they horrible big things!!

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....then maybe they could do this afterall:D
Attachment 10548

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Oh I remember the coppice without the trees, and without the wildlife. Do you really think young broad leaf trees would have survived in just a few inches of soil.

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how likely is it you'd even bother to go up to the top of coppice whether they cut some trees down or not. I've never seen you show an interest in the outdoors in the time that i've known you, unless you are a different god mother to the one that I know :rolleyes:

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ya what im always going for walks!!

cheeky sod;)

i love the countryside:D

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I expected you to call me a cheeky bitch but I thought I would wait and see what the response was, and I wasn't far off. I just can't imagine you taking time out to actually walk up the coppice, and I'm not saying I can be bothered either, so it makes two of us.

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what are you saying young lady???

i always used to go up when i was little ...my granny lived nearby

and ive took the kids up a few times, and played in the park:D

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As an outsider with no previous knowledge other than in the last two years.
Get rid of the trees, plant native species.
Get rid of the horrible brick shelter, or replace it with a brick shelter that has decorative brick ends, perhaps with a oak tree design carved into them.
the monument needs restoring and making the centre piece of a bigger monument which should have been done as part of the panoptican project. When permission was refused, the artist brief should have been changed.
Put the monument at the centre, have radial paths coming out with blue led lines in, each leading to a bench or a standing stone. You wouldn't need big stones, you could use squares as big as the centre stone of the existing monument. Get local people to carve designs that say what Accrington or the coppice is all about to them, you'd hold local stone carving sessions to do that. Micheal Disley does stone carving workshops.You could do the benches like that too, bigger oblongs carved on all four sides. Do some carvings past, some present. All lit up by white led up lighters. Your only limit is your budget. I don't think you're likely to get the sort of figure required to do that sort of project now, which is a shame because people clearly want something.
End of the day it's YOUR coppice n what i can't understand is why when the panoptican project was rejected was you not asked what YOU want and more suggestions and design briefs put out based on what was suggested.

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think its good to have an outsiders view, think they can look at things more objectively,than H.B.C. though not saying thats difficult.;):D