Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

just read that Ian Smith , ex Prime Minister of Rhodesia has died
Former Rhodesian PM Ian Smith dies - Telegraph
anyone who spent time in southern Africa (me included) during the 70s can attast that this was one good guy, a true Hero , who was stabbed in the back by the sleezeballs in the British Govt. and folks like Peter Hain , just imagine if Smithy's ideas had been allowed to happen, the gradual process of Africanization .......no Mugabe, a thriving non corrupt govt. a country capable of exporting food throughout the whole of Africa.
Will be interesting to see if Mugabe has the decency to allow his body hom for a decent funeral.
RIP Smithy , lots of folks from the RDF will be raising a glass to you , whereever you are ;)

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I think I would need a little convincing on this one.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

Try doing some before and after Mugabe research.
What is the country like now 30 years later?

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I just had to quote this part of your post steeljack to ask you what "gradual process of Africanization" you are talking about?....Smith was Prime Minister from 1965-1979! in all those years blacks had no vote, it was he and his own Goverments refusal to share power that lead to the likes of Mugabe gaining support...he is to blame for the Mugabe dictatorship!

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

with Mancie 100% on this. the Masters n Slave scenario can never be justified, the fact that Mugabe was a despot, was a " Get out of jail" free card in Smiths eyes.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

Smith has been out of power for 28 years, so how is he responsible for Rhodesia's current mess? His legacy was a thriving economy - the bread basket of Africa - now turned into a wasteland. The only person to blame for the Mugabe dictatorship is Mugabe. Get real, Mancie.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I'm saying that if Smith had "got real" and started to share power or at least negotiated with the moderate black leaders at that time Mugabe may not have gained the support that brought him to power, anyone who thinks that a system were less than 20% of the population have the right to vote can stay in power for very long needs to "GET REAL"

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

Ian Smith was a patronising bigot who put his self interest first, second, third, fourth, fifth ad infinitum.

In a recent clip on TV he made it quite clear that that black native would not get the vote in a thousand years.

Don’t forget that it was Cecil Rhodes who took the land by force from the incumbent natives and then used them like slaves to amass great wealth for the white settlers.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I remember a comment, can't remember who said it though, that under Smith, Rhodesia was like Surrey with the lunatic fringe on top. I think that the argument that the blacks were better off under the whites has been used before all the way from the American South to South Africa. I also don't see how being critical of Smith can be seen as being supportive of Mugabe.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

yep , and I'm sure you watched it on the BBC otherwise known as the Black Broadcasting Corporation, hardly the source of unbiased news reporting .

Re. Ian Smith , his philosopy was that the educated Black qualified for the vote , not the uneducated tribesman out in the bush. Though from what one reads about the British and their system of postal voting it seems tribalism (mob rule) is a quite common and an accepted practice in Britain thesedays.

........seems to me folks who live in glass houses shouldn't be ......

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

The educated black? So Con. Rice gets to be Secretary of State with two PhDs, and George Bush, a man of severly limited mental ability, holds the office of President.:rolleyes: Does this mean that a black must be educated in order to vote, but that a white person from the inbred regions of Appalachia can vote even if he/she is illiterate:confused:

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

Just remember the good things Ian Smith did someone once remarked about the smirk he had on his face. This was the result of being wounded in the Battle of Britain as a pilot in the R.R.A.F ,fighting for us. Rhodesia was given back to the majority to early, as history has proved, it was in a far better state when Ian Smith was in charge

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I think one of the problems is that "far better state" is not as simple and neutral a phrase as it looks. And one can argue that the area was in a far better state before the arrival of the colonists. I am not suggesting it for this thread, just mentioning it. There are already enough escaped worms running around, and perhaps it is best to leave the rest of them in the can.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I aggree RIP Ian Smith. History will be your judge, you were far better than Mr EBAGUM. The Collonialists is for another thread Eric. ;)

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I don't think there is a simple answer to this one. The question is deceptively simple (not you, hon, the question:D) but the answer isn't. Zimbabwe now is not what it was when it was Rhodesia. And it is not what it will be when Mugabe is gone. Are we talking economically better off? Politically? What kind of value can be assigned to freedom? How long does it take for a country, artificially created, to get over the problems surrounding its creation?

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

That's a problem for rulers like Mugabe: if you give the people food and shelter, they will want to paritcipate in the political process. If you make sure that food is scarce, they will concentrate on brute survival, and to hell with how the country is run, or who is running it. Smith, by improving the economic lot of the blacks created political problems for himself. I believe that democracy has to grow, any revolution, peaceful or violent, can get rid of a bad govt., but it can't guarantee good govt. and a strong economy. Of course, there have been successful revolutions, in the US for example, and in Cuba, where the revolution would have had more success if the world's strongest power was not constantly trying to frustrate it. England has had the slowest and most successful revolution of all lasting from about 1215 until yesterday.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

Our current president received a BA in history from Yale University in 1968 and a Masters in Business Administration from Harvard in 1975. Not quite the dunce you've been led to believe. Granted, he's not a great public speaker....but don't let that fool you.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

There was a semi-apartheid regime during Iain Smith's tenure - although it was nowhere near that of South Africa. And nobody starved.

Mugabe's tribe, the Shona, (being in the majority), has been trying to eliminate the Matabele ever since Zanu came to power. Between 1980 & 1984 alone, 30,000 Matabele were murdered. It remains the least discussed genocide in Africa. You don't hear any criticism of Mugabe from the leading lights of neighboring African countries either. Not even from the much lauded Nelson Mandela, although Thabo Mbeki managed to finally issue a very qualified and guarded statement.

Having achieved the franchise, black Zimbabweans are now dealing with the consequences of mob rule.

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

It's the nasty aftermath of colonialism, happened in India, happened in the Middle East. Telling someone that they are now free is fine, but what do they do with that freedom in a state that was artificially constructed in the first place. This is not an attempt to excuse Mugabe, or Amin, or any of the others born out of uncertainty and outright chaos. It seems as if the birthing pains and the growing pains last way too long.

And GWB .... ah, what the heck, it's getting close to Christmas, good will and all that stuff.:D

Re: Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies
 

I see he has the best brains money could buy:D

Like the avatar by the way, now I won't be able to read your posts without thinking of Dale Evans;)