Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies

steeljack · 21-11-2007, 00:41

just read that Ian Smith , ex Prime Minister of Rhodesia has died
Former Rhodesian PM Ian Smith dies - Telegraph
anyone who spent time in southern Africa (me included) during the 70s can attast that this was one good guy, a true Hero , who was stabbed in the back by the sleezeballs in the British Govt. and folks like Peter Hain , just imagine if Smithy's ideas had been allowed to happen, the gradual process of Africanization .......no Mugabe, a thriving non corrupt govt. a country capable of exporting food throughout the whole of Africa.
Will be interesting to see if Mugabe has the decency to allow his body hom for a decent funeral.
RIP Smithy , lots of folks from the RDF will be raising a glass to you , whereever you are

Eric · 21-11-2007, 03:10

I think I would need a little convincing on this one.

Neil · 21-11-2007, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

I think I would need a little convincing on this one.

Try doing some before and after Mugabe research.
What is the country like now 30 years later?

Mancie · 21-11-2007, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

just read that Ian Smith , ex Prime Minister of Rhodesia has died
Former Rhodesian PM Ian Smith dies - Telegraph
just imagine if Smithy's ideas had been allowed to happen, the gradual process of Africanization .......no Mugabe, a thriving non corrupt govt. a country capable of exporting food throughout the whole of Africa.

I just had to quote this part of your post steeljack to ask you what "gradual process of Africanization" you are talking about?....Smith was Prime Minister from 1965-1979! in all those years blacks had no vote, it was he and his own Goverments refusal to share power that lead to the likes of Mugabe gaining support...he is to blame for the Mugabe dictatorship!

cashman · 21-11-2007, 13:04

with Mancie 100% on this. the Masters n Slave scenario can never be justified, the fact that Mugabe was a despot, was a " Get out of jail" free card in Smiths eyes.

Tealeaf · 21-11-2007, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

I...he is to blame for the Mugabe dictatorship!

Smith has been out of power for 28 years, so how is he responsible for Rhodesia's current mess? His legacy was a thriving economy - the bread basket of Africa - now turned into a wasteland. The only person to blame for the Mugabe dictatorship is Mugabe. Get real, Mancie.

Mancie · 21-11-2007, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Smith has been out of power for 28 years, so how is he responsible for Rhodesia's current mess? His legacy was a thriving economy - the bread basket of Africa - now turned into a wasteland. The only person to blame for the Mugabe dictatorship is Mugabe. Get real, Mancie.

I'm saying that if Smith had "got real" and started to share power or at least negotiated with the moderate black leaders at that time Mugabe may not have gained the support that brought him to power, anyone who thinks that a system were less than 20% of the population have the right to vote can stay in power for very long needs to "GET REAL"

jambutty · 21-11-2007, 16:24

Ian Smith was a patronising bigot who put his self interest first, second, third, fourth, fifth ad infinitum.

In a recent clip on TV he made it quite clear that that black native would not get the vote in a thousand years.

Don’t forget that it was Cecil Rhodes who took the land by force from the incumbent natives and then used them like slaves to amass great wealth for the white settlers.

Eric · 21-11-2007, 16:51

I remember a comment, can't remember who said it though, that under Smith, Rhodesia was like Surrey with the lunatic fringe on top. I think that the argument that the blacks were better off under the whites has been used before all the way from the American South to South Africa. I also don't see how being critical of Smith can be seen as being supportive of Mugabe.

steeljack · 21-11-2007, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

In a recent clip on TV he made it quite clear that that black native would not get the vote in a thousand years.

.

yep , and I'm sure you watched it on the BBC otherwise known as the Black Broadcasting Corporation, hardly the source of unbiased news reporting .

Re. Ian Smith , his philosopy was that the educated Black qualified for the vote , not the uneducated tribesman out in the bush. Though from what one reads about the British and their system of postal voting it seems tribalism (mob rule) is a quite common and an accepted practice in Britain thesedays.

........seems to me folks who live in glass houses shouldn't be ......

Eric · 21-11-2007, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

yep , and I'm sure you watched it on the BBC otherwise known as the Black Broadcasting Corporation, hardly the source of unbiased news reporting .

Re. Ian Smith , his philosopy was that the educated Black qualified for the vote , not the uneducated tribesman out in the bush. Though from what one reads about the British and their system of postal voting it seems tribalism (mob rule) is a quite common and an accepted practice in Britain thesedays.

........seems to me folks who live in glass houses shouldn't be ......

The educated black? So Con. Rice gets to be Secretary of State with two PhDs, and George Bush, a man of severly limited mental ability, holds the office of President.

Does this mean that a black must be educated in order to vote, but that a white person from the inbred regions of Appalachia can vote even if he/she is illiterate

Ianto.W. · 21-11-2007, 20:02

Just remember the good things Ian Smith did someone once remarked about the smirk he had on his face. This was the result of being wounded in the Battle of Britain as a pilot in the R.R.A.F ,fighting for us. Rhodesia was given back to the majority to early, as history has proved, it was in a far better state when Ian Smith was in charge

Eric · 21-11-2007, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

Just remember the good things Ian Smith did someone once remarked about the smirk he had on his face. This was the result of being wounded in the Battle of Britain as a pilot in the R.R.A.F ,fighting for us. Rhodesia was given back to the majority to early, as history has proved, it was in a far better state when Ian Smith was in charge

I think one of the problems is that "far better state" is not as simple and neutral a phrase as it looks. And one can argue that the area was in a far better state before the arrival of the colonists. I am not suggesting it for this thread, just mentioning it. There are already enough escaped worms running around, and perhaps it is best to leave the rest of them in the can.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-11-2007, 20:20

The question I'd like to pose is: Are the black Zimbabweans better off now under Mugabe than they were under Smith?

Ianto.W. · 21-11-2007, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

I think one of the problems is that "far better state" is not as simple and neutral a phrase as it looks. And one can argue that the area was in a far better state before the arrival of the colonists. I am not suggesting it for this thread, just mentioning it. There are already enough escaped worms running around, and perhaps it is best to leave the rest of them in the can.

I aggree RIP Ian Smith. History will be your judge, you were far better than Mr EBAGUM. The Collonialists is for another thread Eric.